ACC ramps up talks for adding Cal, Stanford, SMU

[Halldan1]

Sources: ACC ramps up Cal, Stanford, SMU talks

The ACC will hold a series of meetings this week to discuss the potential additions of Stanford, California and SMU, including how additional money from the schools would be distributed among ACC members, sources told ESPN..

www.espn.com

Pete Thamel, ESPN

The ACC is again seriously considering the potential additions of Stanford, California and SMU, multiple sources told ESPN on Wednesday.

A series of meetings will be held this week to further vet and discuss different financial models that would come with the additions, sources said.

The inclusion of all three schools is being heavily discussed, in part, because they would come with significant financial concessions from each of the schools, according to sources. The conversations within the ACC this week revolved around how that additional money would be distributed among conference members.

A small group of ACC presidents met Wednesday morning to discuss different ways to divide that money, sources said. More meetings are expected this week to talk through the various ideas and models, but no determinations have been made yet on what that would look like, according to sources.

A vote of 12 of the 15 ACC schools is required to approve the additions, and just one new positive vote is needed among the block of four -- North Carolina, NC State, Clemson and Florida State -- that has indicated dissent against the move in prior meetings. (No formal vote has been taken.) One vote of those four is needed, assuming all of the "yes" votes are aligned with the financial model.

The timeline on a potential decision on whether to add all three schools is fluid, sources said, but the process is expected to play out over the next week. The flurry of meetings and the diving into details indicate momentum toward the additions happening, but sources cautioned the myriad complications that can come with realignment decisions.

The financial concessions from the three schools will create a pool of money, and the ACC presidents are having discussions on how it would be split. The mechanics of that are still to be worked out, sources said, including a performance pool for success initiatives.

SMU's concessions are expected to be different from those of Stanford and Cal, including a willingness for the school to take no broadcast media revenue for the first seven years it is in the league, sources told ESPN. The concessions for Cal and Stanford will include taking a reduced share of the ACC payout, sources said; both schools are expected to receive the same reduced share.

The potential additions come at a time when the ACC has appeared increasingly fragmented. Florida State's leadership has been vocal in recent weeks about needing more money to stay in the ACC, and Clemson's leadership in recent months has publicly indicated a preference for a new financial model within the league.

The underlying frustration with the higher-end athletic programs in the league comes from the reality that their revenues will eventually fall nearly $30 million behind what schools in the SEC and the Big Ten are expected to make.

The ACC television contract with ESPN runs through 2036, a length of time that the league's top programs fear would put them at a distinct financial disadvantage from their competitors in the Big Ten and the SEC.

The ACC would likely have a pool of tens of millions of dollars to potentially give the schools winning big in football a chance to close that gap. But sources cautioned just how that revenue is divided is a tricky issue among the 15 ACC schools. A portion of the money is also being considered to address the additional travel.

 

[shu09]

What a joke. The ATLANTIC COAST Conference. Just what we always envisioned - a Boston College-Cal conference game on a Wednesday night!

 

[Section112]

Don’t think it happens.

 

[SPK145]

Don’t think it happens.

Now it looks like it is going to happen and happen early next week.

The top ACC football schools should be careful for what they wish for here. May result in more revenue for the first couple of years for them but then result in less revenue each year as the new schools start to get a bigger share of the revenue pie.

And adding these 3 schools really weakens the football conference. Winning the ACC Championship Game will probably get you in the CFP but rarely would a second team or a 2-loss team from the ACC get in.

As a Clemson fan I'd prefer they 1) leave the conference if possible and 2) not let these 3 schools in.

And ND is disgraceful!

 

[TomD82]

Don’t think it happens.

Is there anyone or anything that signed a long term deal and then not want to rengoitate it? The ACC signed for 16 years with ESPN? Scotty Pippen, Zack Martin, Osi with the Giants all signed long term deals that at the time made them the highest paid or close to it at that time and then wanted to redo the deal a few years later. Sounds exactly like FSU, Miami etc.

On a Clemson note what do you guys think about the Giants getting Simmons? He was far from a bust with Arizona if you ask me. It just seems like there is a fire sale going on with the Cardinals.

 

[Section112]

I know Clemson and Fla State are vehemently against adding these teams. Maybe this is the rest of the conference saying they know Clemson and Fla State are out at some point so they are trying to keep the conference in tact? ND has fully taken advantage of the ACC relationship and I'm not sure its been better for the ACC in the end.

Simmons was an absolute stud defensively for Clemson but he's had a hard time adjusting to the NFL. He may be one of those incredible athletes without the smarts to play in the NFL. The guy is very fast (4.3) and strong. If Wink can find a way to use him in certain situations, he could earn his $1M salary and more. Card fans believe he is a head case. If anyone can help resurrect his career it is Wink Martindale. Giants have nothing to lose and it strengthens the team's depth at minimum. He's got a lot of experience and has not missed a game which is a plus. He can also play special teams too. Good risk vs reward scenario for the Giants even if it doesn't pan out. Probably makes cut day a little more complicated and one guy on the bubble will now be out, but that is why these coaches get paid the big bucks.

 

[SPK145]

ND has fully taken advantage of the ACC relationship and I'm not sure its been better for the ACC in the end.

It hasn’t been other than the value of the agreement that says if ND joins a conference for football it must be the ACC. I believe that is very valuable.

ND has some hubris for being the one pushing for these 3 programs to join a conference they won’t join.

 

[Seton75]

And changing name to All Coasts Conf?

 

[Section112]

ND has a long history playing both teams as well. They are in the middle of the country so it doesn’t matter to them. I’m not sure why they have any say at all.

 

[CaptBob]

And still no UCONN--

 

[CL82]

And still no UCONN--

And that is not likely to change.

We are here though 2036, at least.

 

[HALL85]

And still no UCONN--

UCANT

 

[CL82]

UCANT

Well, we kinda can, and did, last season...

 

[SHUSource]

Now it looks like it is going to happen and happen early next week.

The top ACC football schools should be careful for what they wish for here. May result in more revenue for the first couple of years for them but then result in less revenue each year as the new schools start to get a bigger share of the revenue pie.

And adding these 3 schools really weakens the football conference. Winning the ACC Championship Game will probably get you in the CFP but rarely would a second team or a 2-loss team from the ACC get in.

As a Clemson fan I'd prefer they 1) leave the conference if possible and 2) not let these 3 schools in.

And ND is disgraceful!

Not so hot for the basketball side of things, either. The ACC struggled to get teams in the NCAAs last year; the additions of Cal and SMU would've caused a much heavier drag than they were already competing with.

 

[SOBO1]

Not to turn this into a UConn thing but if UConn had value they would already be in a P5 conference. If ACC is looking to add multiple schools but still no UConn I think their fate is sealed.

Having said all that, football should just break away and form a singular 64 team football league with four 16 team regional divisions. You can have those teams compete in the 12 team CFP. Leave all other sports in their traditional/regional conferences.

 

[Seton75]

Uconn has value. But not hi level p5 fb value.

The one coach who spoke up about this as it happened was boeheim.

 

[radecicco]

Don’t have to like Boeheim but he knows what he’s talking about.

 

[CL82]

Uconn has value. But not hi level p5 fb value.
.

I'd love to be able to argue this, but our continued presence in the Big East is a pretty eloquent argument in support of your post. As we saw with the big 12, we're close, but even the relatively middling four corners schools were considered preferable to us.

For what it's worth, the ACC has zero interest in us at the current time. In 2036 after they're gutted, maybe that changes.

So, from a Conference perspective, it's a good thing because we are here for the next fox renegotiation.

From a fan perspective, it's still a good thing because I like playing big east teams in basketball, and, to be honest, I am perfectly happy with our independent schedule in football as well.

From a financial perspective, we're screwed, but so is the rest of the conference so at least we're in good company.

 

[TomD82]

Don’t have to like Boeheim but he knows what he’s talking about.

I got a typical story about Boeheim from his frat brother who plays at my golf club. Other than Boeheim knowing that the ACC is not a good fit for SU I don't think he knows much about what he is talking about.

 

[MBF72]

If the Pac-however-many totally implodes, what happens to the Rose Bowl game---- the Grand Daddy of Them All--- or even the stadium?
Does it reconfigure and become a NASCAR venue?

 

[hinson32]

Now it looks like it is going to happen and happen early next week.

The top ACC football schools should be careful for what they wish for here. May result in more revenue for the first couple of years for them but then result in less revenue each year as the new schools start to get a bigger share of the revenue pie.

And adding these 3 schools really weakens the football conference. Winning the ACC Championship Game will probably get you in the CFP but rarely would a second team or a 2-loss team from the ACC get in.

As a Clemson fan I'd prefer they 1) leave the conference if possible and 2) not let these 3 schools in.

And ND is disgraceful!

Do you prefer SEC or BIG?

 

[SOBO1]

I'd love to be able to argue this, but our continued presence in the Big East is a pretty eloquent argument in support of your post. As we saw with the big 12, we're close, but even the relatively middling four corners schools were considered preferable to us.

For what it's worth, the ACC has zero interest in us at the current time. In 2036 after they're gutted, maybe that changes.

So, from a Conference perspective, it's a good thing because we are here for the next fox renegotiation.

From a fan perspective, it's still a good thing because I like playing big east teams in basketball, and, to be honest, I am perfectly happy with our independent schedule in football as well.

From a financial perspective, we're screwed, but so is the rest of the conference so at least we're in good company.

@CL82 what’s the inside scoop on UConn in regards to football? Financially could they afford to remain independent indefinitely? Is the thought process to hold out until ACC breaks up in 2036 (I think it will happen sooner) and hopefully link up with Pitt, bc, cuse, etc.

I understand it’s difficult to say because college athletics could look entirely different in 5-10 years.

 

[CL82]

@CL82 what’s the inside scoop on UConn in regards to football? Financially could they afford to remain independent indefinitely? Is the thought process to hold out until ACC breaks up in 2036 (I think it will happen sooner) and hopefully link up with Pitt, bc, cuse, etc.

I understand it’s difficult to say because college athletics could look entirely different in 5-10 years.

The inside scoop is the move to the big 12 was much further along than it has been publicly talked about. The ACC is not interested in Connecticut as an expansion candidate. The governor of Connecticut has made public statements that our conference affiliation doesn't matter and that having the university compete at the highest levels is important to the state.

Bottom line: We are in the big east for at least another decade. I don't see any indications that football is vulnerable. I expect our financials to look about 20 million better this coming year. (That's still a $30 million deficit.)

 

[SPK145]

Do you prefer SEC or BIG?

I prefer the BIG10 as I think Clemson is more valuable to them but the majority prefer the SEC.

 

[Halldan1]

ACC expansion: Conference renews discussions to add Stanford, California, SMU at reduced price, per reports

A group of ACC presidents met to go over revenue models that made sense for expansion

www.cbssports.com

ACC expansion: Conference renews discussions to add Stanford, California, SMU at reduced price, per reports​

A group of ACC presidents met to go over revenue models that made sense for expansion​

By Shehan Jeyarajah

The ACC has renewed conversations of adding California, Stanford and SMU, according multiple reports. There is renewed optimism that Cal and Stanford can make a deal with the ACC, sources subsequently told CBS Sports' Matt Norlander.

A group of ACC presidents met Wednesday morning to discuss potential financial models that could bring an additional estimated $72 million in annual revenue for the conference, Yahoo Sports reports. More meetings involving leadership at ACC schools are slated for Thursday.

If admitted, the trio of schools would come at a far lower price point. Cal and Stanford would only receive about 30% of a full revenue share to start, which would amount to between $7-10 million for each of the Bay Area schools, per Yahoo Sports. SMU, on the other hand, is reportedly willing to abstain from media payouts for up to seven years.

The addition of three schools would unlock further compensation from television partners, according to ESPN. But with the three potential additions willing to take less money -- one of them none at all -- additional funds could therefore be distributed to existing members. The ACC distributed nearly $40 million per school for the 2022 calendar year, and numbers should continue to go up with escalators in the league's lengthy television contract with ESPN.

Several ACC schools have been openly lobbying for additional revenue pathways in recent months after the Big Ten and SEC signed massive new television contracts. The ACC previously endorsed an incentive-based initiative to reward high-achieving programs with additional revenue based on postseason success. The details are still being worked out, but the incentive programs is expected to start in 2024-25, the first year of the expanded College Football Playoff.

The ACC requires 12 votes out of 15 schools (including Notre Dame) to admit a new school. Four schools previously held out: North Carolina, NC State, Clemson and Florida State. Only one school must change its vote for the three new schools to be admitted. A decision could come within the next week, according to ESPN.

The ACC's discussion comes in the wake of the Pac-12's erosion one year after USC and UCLA announced plans to leave for the Big Ten. Oregon and Washington followed at a reduced share, while Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado and Utah joined the Big 12 as full-share members. If Stanford and Cal both join the ACC, Oregon State and Washington State would be the Pac-12's remaining schools.

The two remainders have received overtures from both the Mountain West and American Athletic Conference in recent weeks. However, no decision has been made on their future.

 

[SHUisNJsTeam]

Oregon State and Washington State being relegated to mid-majors. Wonder what happens to Cal and Stanford if the ACC can’t convince one more school to totally mess up their footprint and admit them.

 

[CL82]

Oregon State and Washington State being relegated to mid-majors. Wonder what happens to Cal and Stanford if the ACC can’t convince one more school to totally mess up their footprint and admit them.

Watch the big 12 take them if they go full SMU and agree to zero media payments for seven years.

Here's the thing, SMU would make more not getting media payments in the ACC then they would get media payments in the American.

 

[Halldan1]

Sources: ACC expansion verdict expected in days

There is "continued momentum" for the ACC to add Cal, Stanford and SMU, sources told ESPN's Pete Thamel, with a decision on expansion expected in the coming days.

www.espn.com

​

'Continued momentum' for ACC to add schools​

Pete Thamel, ESPN

A decision on ACC expansion is expected this week, and sources told ESPN that there's "continued momentum" toward the league adding Stanford, Cal and SMU to the league.

After a weekend of conversations, a source told ESPN that the details of the potential additions are "only in pencil," but it's trending in the direction of happening. One of four ACC schools that had previously objected to the additions -- Clemson, Florida State, NC State and North Carolina -- needed to change its vote, and that is expected to happen this week.

A source described the situation to ESPN as a distinct dichotomy as of Monday afternoon. There's an anticipation to the additions happening, but the same people preparing for expansion aren't certain that it's going to happen, according to the source, nor are they certain what school will flip. They are working to prepare coaches and athletes for potential additions, but aren't certain that the schools will be added.

"It could be done, but there's work to be done," a source told ESPN.

While there's momentum toward additions, a decision either way is coming in the early part of this week. This is the fourth week that ACC officials have discussed the potential additions, and there's a now-or-never tone hanging over the next few days.

A presidents' call scheduled for Monday night has been canceled because of a shooting at North Carolina's campus, sources told ESPN.

The movement of the meeting is out of respect for everyone at UNC, sources told ESPN. The meeting has yet to be definitively re-scheduled.

ACC commissioner Jim Phillips discussed the potential adds with the ACC presidents in small groups last week. Phillips also spent the bulk of the week having smaller conversations with the four "no" schools in an effort to get them on board with the expansion plan, multiple sources told ESPN's Andrea Adelson. One source indicated Phillips would like to have a unanimous vote on expansion because he sees this as a big win for the conference, particularly as a way to secure its future. After weeks of strife, a unanimous vote would indicate he has every league member on board with the decision.

The ACC officials are still dialing in on how to divide the pool of money that would be split up among ACC members after the three schools join.

SMU is expected to join the league with no broadcast media revenue for seven years, per ESPN sources. Cal and Stanford are expected to initially join at approximately 30% shares.

That's expected to create a pool of between $50-60 million annually to divide among ACC schools. Some of that would be distributed to all members, and the rest would be put into a pool for success initiatives. Discussion on that pool of money centers on how to divide it to everyone's satisfaction -- taking into account CFP appearances, ACC championships, ACC championship appearances and bowl appearances. One source believes there should be a tiered approach to how the bowl money is divided up; an Orange Bowl appearance should be worth more than a Pinstripe Bowl appearance, for example. There also is ongoing discussion about how much Notre Dame should share in the added money the league will receive from the new schools.

The ACC has been discussing success initiatives since May that are expected to be implemented for the 2024-25 season. When the ACC announced those initiatives, it noted the specifics were "still in progress."

Another source indicated that adding these three schools is essential not only for long-term security but also to help close the revenue gap with the SEC and Big Ten, which is set to grow to roughly $30 million per year. The source said this current plan is "the only thing that gets us closer to closing that gap" compared with other options that have been presented.

All three schools would be expected to enter for the 2024-25 season in all sports. The potential move comes after the Pac-12 spiraled in the wake of departures of eight schools in recent weeks.

ESPN's Andrea Adelson contributed to this report.

 

[radecicco]

What a farce. Invite three new schools. Take most or all of their media money for seven years and divide that up among the existing schools. Bizarre but that is what is going to happen.

 

[shu09]

What a farce. Invite three new schools. Take most or all of their media money for seven years and divide that up among the existing schools. Bizarre but that is what is going to happen.

ACC has all the leverage. Cal and Stanford are desperate for a home, so they have to play by the ACC's rules if they want in. Why the ACC would want these schools, that's another story I don't quite understand.

 

[SOBO1]

The ACC probably knows that it’s going to breakup in 7 years anyway. So why not take the money now and when it comes time for their full share…”ooops! Sorry conference is breaking up.”

 

[TrueBlue1989]

College football is destroying college sports. Our friends down south crow about their huge tv deal yet athletics continue to bleed money. What is the point?

 

[SHUisNJsTeam]

College football is destroying college sports. Our friends down south crow about their huge tv deal yet athletics continue to bleed money. What is the point?

They don’t have a pot to piss in or a window to heave it out of! They will continue to get their behinds handed to them. They are the only school on the planet who will be happy to finish 18th every year.

 

[radecicco]

ACC has all the leverage. Cal and Stanford are desperate for a home, so they have to play by the ACC's rules if they want in. Why the ACC would want these schools, that's another story I don't quite understand.

They want the money that ESPN has to pay for new schools coming into the league. So they come in but the league takes all or most of ESPN’s media money and uses it for additional payout to the current member schools. The only reason they want them is to their hands on an additional $70 million each year for the next seven years. (The full total is about $90 million annually for the three new schools but Stanford and Cal will get $10 million each.)

 

[CL82]

They want the money that ESPN has to pay for new schools coming into the league. So they come in but the league takes all or most of ESPN’s media money and uses it for additional payout to the current member schools. The only reason they want them is to their hands on an additional $70 million each year for the next seven years. (The full total is about $90 million annually for the three new schools but Stanford and Cal will get $10 million each.)

I believe ESPN is giving only $72M for all three schools. Of that Stanford and Cal get at 1/3 share (or $10M each as you note) and SMU gets nothing leaving $52M which will be unevenly distributed among the other ACC schools. That certainly seems like a recipe for discord in the conference.

So why would SMU agree to this? Well, first, it gets them into the Px club which might help them when future consolidation happens. Secondly, even though they will receive no media money, they will be a full share of conference playoff money, which is $15M per year, plus a full share of NCAA tournament distribution revenue. That is significantly more than they are making in the AAC.

The same is true for Stanford and California, but is a big step down from what they would have received had the Pac 12 accepted the last ESPN offer which was worth around $30M per school, I believe. But as you pointed out, they are desperate.

As we know all too well in the Big East, turning down ESPN's final and best offer isn't good for the health of your conference.

 

[HALL85]

The travel budgets and wear and tear on the athletes is going to be brutal. I guess on a positive note, they will all have major status and frequent flyer programs by the time they graduate.