to reignite a movement. Take that fu?ken flag down. Don't move it. Burn it!!
It took a Massacre
- Thread starter Muggsy Blue
- Start date
I'm sure taking the flag down is going to fix everything.
You realize it was the Democrats (Dixiecrats) who popularized that flag, and the negative connotations thereof, right? Men fought and died under that flag, and for that they are due some respect. It has a historical value, aside from the perversions.
You realize it was the Democrats (Dixiecrats) who popularized that flag, and the negative connotations thereof, right? Men fought and died under that flag, and for that they are due some respect. It has a historical value, aside from the perversions.
Did I say that? Be real.
TAKE THE FLAG DOWN!!!
Funny even your tea party politician buddies are putting themselves out front to have it taken down, but you are talking about its historical value? Really?
Racists fought for that flag. They get no respect from me. Lincoln, a Republican, on the other hand gets much respect from me. A great Republican.
TAKE THE FLAG DOWN!!!
Funny even your tea party politician buddies are putting themselves out front to have it taken down, but you are talking about its historical value? Really?
Racists fought for that flag. They get no respect from me. Lincoln, a Republican, on the other hand gets much respect from me. A great Republican.
Isn't it really the flag of the most treasonous act this republic has ever faced?
It does have historical value and should be seen in museums.
Did that flag hang over statehouses in 1920? 1940? Or did it start hanging in the early 60s? Was that to honor Civil War vets or for some other reason?
Dixiecrats, another word for Southern Republicans who ditched the Dems cause they actually supported the Civil Rights movement.
Thanx for the history lesson on the Dixiecrats. Well said, Seton75. No one looks at them as Democrats, or ever thinks that they represent the ideological side of the party.
I agree Jim. We are making slow progress. I was so disappointed recently when talking about race with one of my sons, who is in his mid-twenties. He told me how so many of his friends are still taught the same old crap that was common to teach kids about race 40 years ago. One was even told to cross the street if you see a Black guy walking towards you, cause you just never know. Half of the fathers at my son's Catholic Grammar School basketball game would go away from me to tell some N jokes before the game started. And these are not bad people. They support their families, love their wife and kids, are good friends. But they have this blindness.
Seton75, Down here I see a lot. I guess the difference between the North and the South is that southerners are more upfront about their feelings while northerners are secretive and strategic about it. During the 2012 election cycle I saw so many "Don't Re-Nig in 2012" bumper stickers. We can't even imagine how much racism our president and his family have experienced during his time in office. For the sake of our country, he has never lashed out. Perhaps we will find out more someday when he writes his memoirs. It won't be a pretty picture of America.
A few years ago I returned to school to learn how to teach. During my teaching internship in 2009, the main teacher in the first-grade classroom I was assigned to was an African American woman. One day a particularly troublesome boy happened to tell me and her that his father hated black people. The teacher, to her credit, asked the boy's father about this on parent-teacher night. The pause before his denial said all that needed to be said. This was a divorced dad, by the way, with full custody of the child (mom was incarcerated)
Also that year, President Obama was to deliver a televised message to American school children during the first week of school. What he was going to tell them was that if they studied hard, then they might someday achieve their dreams. Many parents threatened to keep their kids home that day if the school planned on letting the students watch President Obama. Not surprisingly, the school caved in and the kids didn't get to see the president. I think we can safely say the objections were not over President Obama's policies.
A few years ago I returned to school to learn how to teach. During my teaching internship in 2009, the main teacher in the first-grade classroom I was assigned to was an African American woman. One day a particularly troublesome boy happened to tell me and her that his father hated black people. The teacher, to her credit, asked the boy's father about this on parent-teacher night. The pause before his denial said all that needed to be said. This was a divorced dad, by the way, with full custody of the child (mom was incarcerated)
Also that year, President Obama was to deliver a televised message to American school children during the first week of school. What he was going to tell them was that if they studied hard, then they might someday achieve their dreams. Many parents threatened to keep their kids home that day if the school planned on letting the students watch President Obama. Not surprisingly, the school caved in and the kids didn't get to see the president. I think we can safely say the objections were not over President Obama's policies.
Lincoln was one of the biggest racists out there, he wanted to return the black man to Africa! Also didn't want to give blacks equal rights with whites.
The confederate flag should not be flown on government property, it's disrespectful. Private individuals are free to do whatever they want with it, just no government sanction of it.
And the hypocrites are out in full force. Walmart won't sell the confedrerate flag anymore yet they continue to sell Che Guevara t-shirts, he being another huge hater of blacks.
I see the world through a different lens. I see our three daughters, all in their 20's, whose social circle has no racial or LGBT barriers. Two of them had had gay male apartment mates; one dated a black college mate for several years. I see many parents who are accepting and supportive of their children coming out. I see a generation that is color-blind and has different definitions of diversity and inclusion. I see business and community leaders that care and are doing things to unite. I see people donating their time and money to help people that are in need. I see a multi-racial school like Daniel Boone HS in little Birdsboro PA which had a spirit of giving and community commitment that saves over 2,500 lives each year by running blood drives in memory of a student who passed way unexpectedly 13 years ago. I see black colleagues of mine from Baltimore that are trying to rise above the media and political noise to make the city work for everyone by putting people to work and having a purpose.
I prefer to align myself with those (including our political leaders) who want to lead and unite. That Is a prerequisite for anyone I vote...party affiliation means very little. It is my biggest disappointment in Obama...his constant divisiveness.
With regards to breaking down racial barriers: I see a world where We have done a better job than our parents and our children are doing a much better than us...
I prefer to align myself with those (including our political leaders) who want to lead and unite. That Is a prerequisite for anyone I vote...party affiliation means very little. It is my biggest disappointment in Obama...his constant divisiveness.
With regards to breaking down racial barriers: I see a world where We have done a better job than our parents and our children are doing a much better than us...
White racism is still a huge problem in our not-so-great country. Don't tell a black person in America that it's been fixed because we have a long way to go. No one should have to put up with that crap at any time and for any reason. We have a sitting U.S. President who encounters racism consistently. Every white person in America should be ashamed of our racist legacy. Yet we ask African American children to begin their school day by pledging allegiance to the flag of a country that allows such nonsense to continue. A better idea would be to remove the flag from all classrooms until it represents all Americans. I have students that are living in poverty who shouldn't be forced to salute the flag either. Our country doesn't care about the futures of those kids. Too many people only care that they get theirs.
Lincoln was considered divisive in his time, as was LBJ with the Civil Rights Act. Obama has been fine and is a great, historic leader. Below is a response I made to an idiotic click-bait page on Facebook that "ranked" the last 12 presidents, including the one still in office. I have 163 likes so far, along with quite a few hate responses from racists. I should have gotten paid for this one because it's right on the money.
Here it is:
Stupid article. How can you "rank" a president that's still in office? Obama's legacy will only improve with the passage of time. Despite inheriting a mess and facing extreme racism along with a hate-filled Congress, President Obama has America back on track. Divisive? No president in our history was more divisive than Abraham Lincoln. The country split in two under Lincoln's watch, and he was absolutely reviled during the time he was in office. Today he is generally considered to be our greatest president, and nary a person alive would say a negative thing about him. LBJ was also considered divisive due to the Civil Rights Act. Today it is considered perhaps the most important piece of legislation in US history. Sometimes you need to divide in order to bring people together.
Obama's divisiveness has been due to the color of his skin, as many people simply can't handle the fact that a man of color has risen to the highest office in the land. Racists have stopped hiding their biases. I suppose that's a good thing, as admitting you have a problem is the crucial first step toward curing it. Judging by the tone of some of the comments here, a few of you need to be cured of your bigotry.
As for Obama's legacy, it will improve immensely in the coming decades. In 10 years you'll be hard-pressed to find an American who'll admit they ever disliked Obama. In 50 years his birthday will be a national holiday. President Obama is one of the great pioneers in American history, political or otherwise. For the good of the country, he has handled the extreme racism he and his family have faced during his presidency with grace and dignity. He has never lashed out. While we know about some of the racism, the Obamas have encountered, you can bet it's only a miniscule portion. I can't wait until his term is over and his memoirs are published. I hope he pulls no punches when it comes to addressing the racism. It will not paint a pretty picture of our supposedly great nation.
I have been voting since 1976, and consider Obama to be the greatest president of my lifetime. Against strong odds, he got our progressive nation moving forward again. He is truly a great American.
Lincoln was considered divisive in his time, as was LBJ with the Civil Rights Act. Obama has been fine and is a great, historic leader. Below is a response I made to an idiotic click-bait page on Facebook that "ranked" the last 12 presidents, including the one still in office. I have 163 likes so far, along with quite a few hate responses from racists. I should have gotten paid for this one because it's right on the money.
Here it is:
Stupid article. How can you "rank" a president that's still in office? Obama's legacy will only improve with the passage of time. Despite inheriting a mess and facing extreme racism along with a hate-filled Congress, President Obama has America back on track. Divisive? No president in our history was more divisive than Abraham Lincoln. The country split in two under Lincoln's watch, and he was absolutely reviled during the time he was in office. Today he is generally considered to be our greatest president, and nary a person alive would say a negative thing about him. LBJ was also considered divisive due to the Civil Rights Act. Today it is considered perhaps the most important piece of legislation in US history. Sometimes you need to divide in order to bring people together.
Obama's divisiveness has been due to the color of his skin, as many people simply can't handle the fact that a man of color has risen to the highest office in the land. Racists have stopped hiding their biases. I suppose that's a good thing, as admitting you have a problem is the crucial first step toward curing it. Judging by the tone of some of the comments here, a few of you need to be cured of your bigotry.
As for Obama's legacy, it will improve immensely in the coming decades. In 10 years you'll be hard-pressed to find an American who'll admit they ever disliked Obama. In 50 years his birthday will be a national holiday. President Obama is one of the great pioneers in American history, political or otherwise. For the good of the country, he has handled the extreme racism he and his family have faced during his presidency with grace and dignity. He has never lashed out. While we know about some of the racism, the Obamas have encountered, you can bet it's only a miniscule portion. I can't wait until his term is over and his memoirs are published. I hope he pulls no punches when it comes to addressing the racism. It will not paint a pretty picture of our supposedly great nation.
I have been voting since 1976, and consider Obama to be the greatest president of my lifetime. Against strong odds, he got our progressive nation moving forward again. He is truly a great American.
I happen to think Obama has done a pretty good job overall, but not everyone who disagrees with him is a racist. I'm sure there's some of that out there, but most people who rant against him are clouded by partisanship and politics, not racism.
JIM, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, however the facts that just don't support it. If racism is as bad as you make it out to be, then why did Obama win the election so handily seven years ago and then get re-elected, against two "white" candidates that represented the establishment (McCain/military and Romney/business)?
And you do realize the "hate-filled" Congress was a Democratic majority when he took office. Quite frankly, I thought Obama had a great opportunity to unite the country having that groundswell of support in winning the election and having seen the world through his 1/2 black and 1/2 white background. Even his supporters will agree that he has failed miserably from a leadership standpoint on uniting the country. Look at how he's handled this horrible situation in South Carolina. Instead of focusing on healing and unity; taking the lead from the incredibly forgiving families of the victims, he used the tragedy to take a political stance on gun control.
The difference between Obama, Lincoln and Johnson is that the latter have written their legacy with landmark legislation (Emancipation Proclamation and Civil Rights Act)...they got things done. This President has been one of inaction (go ahead and blame Congress again); least amount of legislation passed by any President. What is his legacy? The ACA? Legislation that has increased the cost of healthcare for the masses, while insurance, medical device and pharmaceutical companies have raked in record profits? And we still have 40 million people uninsured.
Racism and prejudice are still alive in this country and everywhere in the world and it has effected many races and ethnic groups. No one ever said it was "fixed". But the facts support a vast improvement brought on by generational change. I saw first hand the prejudice my Dad faced as an immigrant to this country.
The only solution I see from your writing is to remove the American Flag. Is that it? That's going to solve our problems? What solutions would you propose? I see the most bigoted comments in this thread, quite frankly coming from your posts.
My tea party politician buddies? Far from it, and I live in a place far more diverse than your all-white enclave in Bergen County. Yet you blindly vote Democrat and are going to save the world from racism -- just not in your backyard!
I'm not sure when it began flying over statehouses, and it probably should have been taken down long ago. The outcry after this terrible act has nothing to do with flags.
Your last paragraph is patently false.
The flag should be taken down but it had nothing to do with the murders in Charleston. That was more due to a person with a deranged mind and the easy availability of guns.
QUESTION: What kind of parent gives his 21 year old drop out, drug addicted, racist child a gun for his birthday?
TK
QUESTION: What kind of parent gives his 21 year old drop out, drug addicted, racist child a gun for his birthday?
TK
From CNN:
"Dixiecrats resurfaced the "Southern Cross" flag as a political symbol around the time President Harry Truman supported efforts to end lynchings and desegregate the military in 1948. During that same period, the Ku Klux Klan began using the flag more widely."
"Dixiecrats resurfaced the "Southern Cross" flag as a political symbol around the time President Harry Truman supported efforts to end lynchings and desegregate the military in 1948. During that same period, the Ku Klux Klan began using the flag more widely."
Someone who doesn't deserve to be a parent. I hope they are tried for murder as well for giving him the weapon.
As for the flag, it has no place on the state house grounds. It's just disappointing that it has distracted from the tragedy and how to move forward and prevent those with mental health issues from getting weapons. An appalling act, and we should be giving air time to the families of the victims who have acted with such class and dignity.
Did Obama win cause racism is dying or cause one party had absolutely no appeal towards large voting blocks? I agree racism can be found in all areas of the world and all people. But the historical racism problem in America is white on black, that is the poison of our history. We even saw so many repub candidates trip over themselves when talking about the execution in Charleston.
The flag flying over govt grounds was always a disgrace, at least since the Civil War ended. There may be no better evidence of racism than the defense of that flag over the past five decades imo. It should have never started hanging again in the early 60s. But it did, and we know why.
You can't be that naïve. Obama's first win was sweeping and driven mostly by the color-blind Millennial's and Gen-X'ers. It can't work both ways....those same people that you claim to be vote because Republican candidates have no appeal have now elected a majority in the House and Senate. So they voted for Obama because they didn't like the other choices, but now they voted for the other party because they're still racists? While the larger historic racial issue is with African American's it's not as myopic as you claim. If I may ask, how would you fix this problem that you see?
Since I last checked in, a toy company has vowed to remove the Confederate Flag from it's "Dukes of Hazzard" cars, a show that ended 35 years ago. Right in tune, a liberal NY Post writer is suggesting that "Gone with the Wind" be put out to pasture, because of racist overtones. Same folks who edited the 50 year-old "Looney Tunes" cartoons.
Scary, scary stuff, and insane overreaction. You'd think the kid was draped in the flag when he entered that church.
"Oranges and lemons, say the bells of Saint Clement's...."
Scary, scary stuff, and insane overreaction. You'd think the kid was draped in the flag when he entered that church.
"Oranges and lemons, say the bells of Saint Clement's...."
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This President has been one of inaction (go ahead and blame Congress again); least amount of legislation passed by any President.
Congress passes legislation, not the President.
Congress passes legislation, not the President.
Funny...sorry for the mis-type..."least amount of legislation passed under any President" is that better? Maybe if he spent less time on Letterman and Flozell and more with Congress.......
At some point, Congress has to accept responsibility for passing the least amount of legislation. It does not fall completely on the President.
Um, you do know that is not true, right? The FBI traced the gun used to a purchase the shooter made all on his own.
The less they do the better off we all are. Government is not there to solve every two-bit problem.
Racism is not a mental health issue. Has there been anything so far that shows that Roof is mentally unstable?
We know the families of the victims have acted with class and dignity because the media has pointed it out to us.
On some level, both of those sentiments are correct but I never said otherwise so I am not sure why you are pointing this out to me. .
I believe factually that one of these recent Congressional sessions was the least productive out of the 114 total Congresses. So objectively speaking, they have been doing less and not solving every two-bit problem.
After I posted, I did look quickly. The 112th Congress passed 283 bills, the 113th passed 296. The link shows the number of bills passed since the 80th session (1947)
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/fir...s-not-least-productive-modern-history-n276216
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/fir...s-not-least-productive-modern-history-n276216
I have no clue how to fix it. I fear the only possibility is time. I think ridding ourselves of vile symbols is good. But that can do as much damage as good, and I can see this used as a recruiting tool for some white supremacy orgs. But, we actually debate the merits of flying over govt offices the symbol of the army that tried to break up this country over their demand to keep slaves, the most treasonous movement this great country has ever faced. Kind of amazing to me.
Who is elected to so many of our legislative seats says nothing about the country. In many of districts, the party in power could run a dummy (I am talking a real, stuffed one...lol) and win.
"liberal NY Post writer", talk about an oxymoron...lol.
Here is the artlcle. After reading it, i am not sure if the author was being 100% serious.
http://nypost.com/2015/06/24/gone-with-the-wind-should-go-the-way-of-the-confederate-flag/
The original newspaper reports I read said that the father bought him the gun for his birthday and I've never seen anything to the contrary. But maybe his father just gave him the money to buy the weapon on his own. I don't know but it really does not matter. The point is that it's too damn easy to buy guns in this country. Personally I can not see why any sane person would oppose background checks to prevent the mentally ill or violent criminals from purchasing weapons unless of course they have a financial interest in the munitions or arms industry.
Tom K
That certainly makes sense but isn't relevant to this horrible tragedy as the killer only had a misdemeanor charge previously and no clinical, diagnosed, or treated mental illness.
Cory Booker did an interview last year with some practical solutions based on those things that drive most of the gun violence:
1-Background checks and restrict sales to anyone with a diagnosed/treated mental illness or a criminal record (can't remember where the cut-off was)
2-Double prison penalties in domestic dispute cases
3-Restrict sales of guns to licensed gun shops, eliminating the traveling gun shows, etc.
I'm not a gun owner, but know a few that are both collectors, hunters or like to target practice and they are all in favor of better controls and restrictions.
1-Background checks and restrict sales to anyone with a diagnosed/treated mental illness or a criminal record (can't remember where the cut-off was)
2-Double prison penalties in domestic dispute cases
3-Restrict sales of guns to licensed gun shops, eliminating the traveling gun shows, etc.
I'm not a gun owner, but know a few that are both collectors, hunters or like to target practice and they are all in favor of better controls and restrictions.
Members of my family are gun owners and are very respectful of the right to own firearms.
Reasonable checks & balances make a lot of sense.. mental health / criminal checks and the like.
How do the "traveling gun shows' work? Unless they have the same requirements as licensed gun shops in the state they are in then they should be restricted and maybe banned. Seems simple enough.... if a customer has a valid authorization (gun permit)... then they should be able to do that. My local NJ community PD has a pretty straight forward but stringent permit process. Question becomes... should the requirements be set at state / local levels or at the federal level. My inclination is to do it at the local level, but have access to national data bases.
Why double penalties for domestic dispute cases specifically and not all gun / weapon (knives and other weapons need to be factored in) related violence? Penalties should be set based on the use of a weapon period.... and not just guns. You could even argue that a fist qualifies as a weapon.
If you ask me, which is the bigger problem... keeping legal guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens or keeping illegal guns out of the hands of criminals..... it's pretty obvious which is the more serious one. Too much time being spent on the first and not enough on the second one ...
Reasonable checks & balances make a lot of sense.. mental health / criminal checks and the like.
How do the "traveling gun shows' work? Unless they have the same requirements as licensed gun shops in the state they are in then they should be restricted and maybe banned. Seems simple enough.... if a customer has a valid authorization (gun permit)... then they should be able to do that. My local NJ community PD has a pretty straight forward but stringent permit process. Question becomes... should the requirements be set at state / local levels or at the federal level. My inclination is to do it at the local level, but have access to national data bases.
Why double penalties for domestic dispute cases specifically and not all gun / weapon (knives and other weapons need to be factored in) related violence? Penalties should be set based on the use of a weapon period.... and not just guns. You could even argue that a fist qualifies as a weapon.
If you ask me, which is the bigger problem... keeping legal guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens or keeping illegal guns out of the hands of criminals..... it's pretty obvious which is the more serious one. Too much time being spent on the first and not enough on the second one ...
I have never touched a gun and don't think I have ever seen one except in a police officers holster. Easy access to guns has fueled crime and I don't know any solution. Background checks, eliminate shows, eliminate buying assualt weapons, sure that probably helps. But the bad guys will always be able to get guns here. We let the cat out of the bag too long ago and she aint going back. Stupid f'ing amendment that should have been written with more clarity, "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Like Mick once sang, "
You're obsolete my baby
My poor old-fashioned baby
I said baby, baby, baby you're out of time"
You're obsolete my baby
My poor old-fashioned baby
I said baby, baby, baby you're out of time"
Booker mentioned doubling the penalties for domestic violence since there was a high percentage of gun violence in these cases (for example that case in Neptune last week).
I'm not a gun owner, but I know several and quite frankly considering getting one (or two) given the growth of domestic terrorism. I can't blame our founders for writing the amendment and I don't think that's the issue. This is the sign of our times and what technology and speed buys us. You can respond quicker sometimes without thinking, recruit someone easier with a mental illness to a cause. We were talking at lunch today about the latest ISIS videos and how a sliver of the population probably finds it cool and relates it to a movie or video game. Technology also brought us the Arab spring. We can't process the information fast enough and too many have a ready, fire, aim mentality. I am not going to live my life in fear, but I can certainly have a plan.
I'm not a gun owner, but I know several and quite frankly considering getting one (or two) given the growth of domestic terrorism. I can't blame our founders for writing the amendment and I don't think that's the issue. This is the sign of our times and what technology and speed buys us. You can respond quicker sometimes without thinking, recruit someone easier with a mental illness to a cause. We were talking at lunch today about the latest ISIS videos and how a sliver of the population probably finds it cool and relates it to a movie or video game. Technology also brought us the Arab spring. We can't process the information fast enough and too many have a ready, fire, aim mentality. I am not going to live my life in fear, but I can certainly have a plan.
