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Mullin, SHU and Metro Area BB

Halldan1

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Jan 1, 2003
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Chris Mullin embarks on 2 most crucial recruiting challenges
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Cheick Diallo, Chris Mullin and Brandon Sampson Photo: Getty Images; Paul J. Bereswill; Kelly Kline/Under Armour

Chris Mullin couldn't have scripted his first two-plus weeks at St. John's any better.

He landed his two assistant coaching choices, Matt Abdelmassih and Barry "Slice" Rohrssen, from Iowa State and Kentucky, respectively. He picked up three forward prospects: Tennessee transfer Tariq Ownes, junior-college prospect Darien Williams and 6-foot-11 high school player Yankuba Sima.

But now comes the hard part, securing top-ranked players Brandon Sampson and Cheick Diallo, whom Mullin will meet with separately on Saturday.

"If he is able to land one or both of those guys, it's fair to make a broad assessment of him as a recruiter because of how impressive that would be," Rivals.com national recruiting analyst Eric Bossi said. "But if he doesn't, it would be unfair to judge him. It's not easy to come in and lock down players [like that] in two to three weeks."

Sampson, a four-star recruit from Louisiana, initially committed to St. John's in January when Steve Lavin was the coach. The high-scoring shooting guard - Louisiana's Mr. Basketball - opened up his recruitment when Lavin was fired, and has drawn several suitors, including hometown school LSU, SMU and Oklahoma State. He was expected to visit SMU this weekend, but that trip was cancelled.

Mullin and his staff have been active in trying to build a relationship with Sampson and those close to him, and they will meet in person for the first time this weekend. Sources said Sampson is attracted to everything about St. John's - from the school itself to playing home games at Madison Square Garden and the notoriety he would get playing in a major media market such as New York City. He almost certainly would start right away at St. John's, another bonus.

Diallo, a dynamic 6-foot-9 big man from Mali, is more uncertain. The five-star recruit and McDonald's All-American has been down to the same five schools - Kentucky, Kansas, Iowa State, St. John's and Pittsburgh - for several months, and declined to speak to the media this week during the Jordan Brand Classic. His recruitment might take longer.

It is believed he will wait to see where the other highly rated recruits who remain uncommitted go and to make sure Kentucky coach John Calipari and Iowa State coach Fred Hoiberg don't jump to the NBA.

St. John's biggest edge is Abdelmassih and Rohrssen, who were the lead recruiters for Diallo at their previous jobs. But Diallo and Sampson won't be coming to St. John's solely because of the assistant coaches. The head coach is the closer - often the difference between scoring the top recruit or losing out.

Mullin has to convince both players why he can get them to the NBA and why St. John's would be best for them without being able to point to any prior experience as a head coach or examples of players he has developed.

If St. John's misses on both, it would be understandable. Other head coaches have experience and built-in relationships with the two players. But if Mullin can nab one - or, in a dream scenario for St. John's fans, both - it would speak volumes.

"We don't know if he's a closer or not," said Bossi, the recruiting analyst. "That's still to be determined.

"The early signs have certainly been good."

The entire St. John's staff met with Christ the King junior guard Rawle Alkins - the best player in the city - on Friday.

Iona landed a commitment from junior college forward Jordan Washington of Indian Hills Community College in Iowa on Monday. The 6-foot-8 forward from Queens, a one-time Arizona State commit, led Indian Hills in scoring (15.3) and rebounding (7.5).

Iowa transfer Trey Dickerson from Queens picked South Dakota on Monday.

JUCO standouts Wesley Myers and JaQuan Lynch from Brooklyn signed with West Virginia and Arkansas-Pine Bluff, respectively, on Thursday.

Seton Hall announced the signings of Thurgood Marshall Academy three-star forward Amarveer Singh and Chicago forward Myles Carter, also a three star, on Thursday. The Pirates also offered Thomas Jefferson junior guard Shamorie Ponds a scholarship on Friday.

Robert Morris offered Cardozo junior guard Tariq Coburn a scholarship on Thursday while St. Raymond freshman Omar Silverio received scholarship offers from Iona and Hofstra on Wednesday.
 
Lots of action for top players. " The head coach is the closer".

Good for them.
 
You go Mullin. Show Seton Hall how it is done. And as is the custom on this board, we root hard for opposing BE schools which continue to keep us a bottom feeder.
 
Originally posted by Halldan1:

Iona landed a commitment from junior college forward Jordan Washington of Indian Hills Community College in Iowa on Monday. The 6-foot-8 forward from Queens, a one-time Arizona State commit, led Indian Hills in scoring (15.3) and rebounding (7.5).

Iowa transfer Trey Dickerson from Queens picked South Dakota on Monday.
In the tradition of Mike Glover, Momo Jones and David Laury, Jordan Washington is another high-major talent that winds up transferring to Iona. He was originally Arizona State-bound, but had his scholarship offer pulled after he stole two DVD's from a Walmart. If he's as good as advertised, then the 2015-16 Gaels could be Iona's best team of the Cluess era.

It's interesting that Dickerson winds up at South Dakota. So often we see a local kid drop to a lower conference that's closer to home after going away to school doesn't work out. In this case, Dickerson went to a lower-level conference that's even further away.
 
Not rooting for SJU but am rooting for the league which is now at the A-10 level.

Need every team to pull its weight in recruiting and coaching if it is to regain prominence.

Remember, only one of 6 teams got to the sweet 16.

We need SJU and the other BE schools to show us what it takes to rise up. And they are doing that.
 
You mean like we've been pulling our weight for the last ten years? Did you actually look at our recruiting for next year? So, let's give Mullin two years and like good Seton Hall fans we can root for him in the NCAA's while we stay home AGAIN!
 
believe me I think they know what it takes to win. The problem is for some reason and not only money they refuse to act on anything. I have never seen a supposed Basketball school do absolutely nothing after what has been witnessed over the last 5 years. And to finish the last 5 weeks of the season with 1 win in year 5 a year that was supposed to be a good year at the very least is unbelievable. Also to say meaning the BOR if they actually said anything at all that oh nexy year Willard is on the hot seat. Its like trying to discipline a kid and always threatening with punishment and saying the next time you do that your grounded. But it never happens. Finally we are starting to see what we all expected. The recruiting is way down for the spring with the 1 ship we have left and next year looks horrible as of now. They BOR Lyons ESTEBAN know this but apparently just don't care. No other reason. Id love to be in the room when LYONS and WILLARD are chatting. 2 buddies made rich by our school and I take this very seriously because there has been absolutely no return on the STOCK CERTIFICATE OF KEVIN WILLARD. If he goes next yer bet my life Cleuss will be the coach. Come on over to SOUTH ORANGE . We will make you a multi millionaire. What a joke the place has become.
 
Muggsy, Muggsy, Muggsy.

I pulled my punches on that post. Here's what I deleted.

" We are at the bottom of the conference and would have a tough time beating most of the A-10 teams. And many of the MAAC teams. We are mid-major in caliber and have been for a long long time.

Our recruiting continues to be moribund and our coaching is terrible. Our coaches- every damn one them- are stealing their pay checks. Just because they fly around the country making offers doesn't mean they are doing the job".. Working hard? It's a lot of commotion yielding nothing.

We have not been this low since the early days of PJ when we really didn't belong in the Big East. And the way things are going we don't in terms of men's basketball.

Every year, we are told by the coaches: " We are going to surprise people" . Yeah, right,

Root for the women. Their coaches tell it straight.
 
" The head coach is the closer - often the difference between scoring the top recruit or losing out."

And there, in one plain and simple sentence, is the explanation for our recruiting woes. The assistants can tee up all the talented players you want.....but the head coach has to close the deal.

Outside of hiring assistants that come "packaged" with players....our HC has not shown the ability to do this.

Something tells me that Mr. Mullin will be successful at this....maybe not in this recruiting cycle...after all, he just got here.....but watch out for the next class...
 
Who knows whether Mullin will be able to bring big-time prospects to St. John's? New York City doesn't hold the same allure with young people that it once did. It's a finance center, for sure, but culturally has been in decline for years. There just isn't as much to do for young people, especially when compared to some of the college towns out there. You also have to factor in the reality that the Big East now exists outside the five most powerful conferences. Mullin and his staff may contact a lot of top players, but that's different from actually landing them.
 
Not sure Mullin is a slam dunk, but he's got a lot of momentum and looks like a good bet.

To my surprise I am rooting for him to succeed.

It's a sad lot as a lifelong Seton Hall fan, but our university has abdicated basketball for all intents and purposes. I can only admire and appreciate St John's desire and action by contrast. Good for them and may they be rewarded in their efforts.
 
Jim
Just remember that old adage that applies to not only the business world but to college recruiting as well, " You can't hit a home run if you don't get up to the plate." Right now Mullin and his staff are getting up to the plate with key targets and that gives them a chance to hit the proverbial " home run" and we'll wait and see how they do.
 
Originally posted by hallgrad80:
Jim
Just remember that old adage that applies to not only the business world but to college recruiting as well, " You can't hit a home run if you don't get up to the plate." Right now Mullin and his staff are getting up to the plate with key targets and that gives them a chance to hit the proverbial " home run" and we'll wait and see how they do.
I agree with you, and I think Willard is doing Seton Hall a disservice by not making as many offers as possible. To me, it seems as if Willard was so disappointed by the Kyle Anderson saga that he refuses to put himself through it again. Even though SHU came in second on Anderson, it was something that should have been built on. You put your name to the grindstone, and improve your pitch to the next batch of recruits. Instead, Willard retreated.

SJU will likely land some players due to their sheer aggressiveness. At the same, time, you have to wonder why Seton Hall isn't offering many of the same players. It's like being a car salesman: most of your potential customers will wind up buying from someone else, but you can't let the rejection beat you down. You have to keep on making your pitch. A friend of mine wound up making quite a bit of money selling cars, even though he never saw most of the people he talked to a second time.
 
Jim
I agree with you about Willard not expanding the number of players he offers as a offer costs nothing but then there's a lot I don't understand about our recruiting .
 
then there's a lot I don't understand about our recruiting...

Yep, and I always start at the top -- the HC. Remind me again the definition of insanity?
 
Originally posted by Pirate64:
the league which is now at the A-10 level.
This is a laughable, uninformed statement. The Big East is much, much better than the A-10.
 
The interesting takeaway from that thread is that UK fans think Skice takes Diallo and Aikens with him to St John's.

That would be quite a coup.

I am pulling for that. Good to see a fellow Catholic school step up and steal a couple from 5 stars from Kentucky.
 
Originally posted by SHUMA04:
The interesting takeaway from that thread is that UK fans think Skice takes Diallo and Aikens with him to St John's.

That would be quite a coup.

I am pulling for that. Good to see a fellow Catholic school step up and steal a couple from 5 stars from Kentucky.
Yeah, plus they're pissed that Rohrssen built the relationships with the two players on Kentucky's dime.

I'm also pulling for St. John's re these two. Moving forward, they might be the two most important recruits in the new Big East's early history. All of which makes Slice an important guy in the league's future. Amazing how a couple recruiting sharks can change perception. And in this case, both sharks have joined the same program in the league's biggest market.
 
It's amazing to me how blinded and uninformed the UK fans were about Slice leaving. Once Mullin's name was out there and especially once he was hired, the Slice to SJU rumors heated up in a big way.
 
It's a good sign when UK fans getting pissed about losing a recruiter like Rohrssen. Rohrssen is good friends with Mullin since back in the day, and SJU was willing to pay him more as well. As soon as Mullin was hired, he offered Alkins asap. Alkins has seemingly always wanted to stay home but Lavin never offered due to his poor relationship with CTK coach. Mullin made efforts right away to repair that, then hired Slice. Alkins and mustafa Heron play on the Ren's together and i think SJU will be a favorite to land the two now. Would be a huge coup for SJU with these two blue chippers. Both big time players.
 
If SJU lands top talent who will coach them in games. Lavin had a lot of coaching experience as did Keady.
 
A-10 got 3 teams in the dance this year. BE- 6

Only Xavier made the Sweet 16 for us. None made it for them. BUT in the dance:

Dayton beat PC- one of our better teams- 66-55

VCU lost to national champion Duke by just 3.

Davidson got whomped by Iowa. I'll give you that.

URI- did not make the Dance but was pretty damn good.

I think the leagues are comparable right now. And there are no stats which prove otherwise.

But I'm willing to listen. .
This post was edited on 4/19 5:42 PM by Pirate64
 
A-10 would be a better fit for Seton Hall. We might be able to finish mid conference. We haven't been competitive in the BE for a long time. I've mentioned before that I think we should consider stepping down a conference.
 
Why don't some of the so called Seton Hall fans? On this board find another team to follow. Most people would say the Big East is one of the top 4 conferences in the nation. The A10 is comparable to the AAC.
 
Originally posted by Flnj86:
Why don't some of the so called Seton Hall fans? On this board find another team to follow. Most people would say the Big East is one of the top 4 conferences in the nation. The A10 is comparable to the AAC.
Regardless of how people think the basketball conferences ranked this year, the new order of college sports suggests that there's the Power Five football conferences and then everybody else. It's a steep financial divide between those five conferences (26 Sweet Sixteen berths in the last two years) and everybody else (six total). The new Big East has one Sweet Sixteen berth in its history, the same as the A10 over the same period of time. So really, the new Big East is now closer to the A10 than the Power Five. That's a trend that I think will continue until it's proven otherwise.
 
Originally posted by Pirate64:
A-10 got 3 teams in the dance this year. BE- 6


3 out of 14 vs. 6 out of 10. Pretty big difference, don't you think??


Originally posted by Pirate64:

Only Xavier made the Sweet 16 for us. None made it for them.


I'll take one S16 team over zero any day of the week.


Originally posted by Pirate64:

Dayton beat PC- one of our better teams- 66-55
Providence just got beat. Dayton is a program that could be Big East quality. Archie Miller scouted the Friars perfectly and PC didn't play with the passion we're accustomed to seeing from Ed Cooley's team. Dayton also had a massive crowd advantage playing in Columbus. They won fair and square, but it's one game. The Big East was 7-2 against the A-10 this season, including the loss by Providence. DePaul (to GW) was the only other Big East team to lose to an A-10 team.


Originally posted by Pirate64:

VCU lost to national champion Duke by just 3.
VCU lost in the first round of the tournament to Ohio State.

Originally posted by Pirate64:

I think the leagues are comparable right now. And there are no stats which prove otherwise.
Well unless you make up stats out of thin air like VCU losing to Duke by 3, then I guess you can make the leagues comparable. The Big East got 6 of 10 teams in the tournament. The A-10 had 3 of 14. The Big East went 7-2 against teams from the A-10. All of these facts and you're going to sit here and tell us the Big East's level is comparable to the A-10??? LOL!!! The quality of basketball in the Big East is much better overall than the A-10.
 
We are absolutely closer to the A10 than the power 5. Anyone not blind can see beyond the RPI #s could see that this year.

As far as this nearly universal sentiment that the success of our rivals is good for SHU? That's a joke unless we can ever get stuff together.
 
Originally posted by phi_pirates:
We are absolutely closer to the A10 than the power 5. Anyone not blind can see beyond the RPI #s could see that this year.

Huh? In the macro landscape of college basketball (this is about $$ and exposure, not quality of basketball) I see it as this:

Power 5 are the top level
---------------------------------
Big East
---------------------------------
AAC
A-10
MWC
MVC
etc.

The Big East says it wants to go toe to toe with the power five when it comes to scholarships, money, rules, etc. Time will tell on that. But the quality of basketball in the Big East is comparable to middle of the pack power 5 leagues, not the A-10. The Big East was 3rd (.7809 rating) in KenPom this season, the A-10 was 7th (.6067). Last year the Big East was 5th (.7370), the A-10 was 8th (.6989). Over the two year span of its existence, the Big East has blown by the A-10 on the basketball court, especially in the 2014-15 season.
 
It's not wins and losses that count; it's the money. Over the next several months, the Power Five will be making money hand-over-fist, with their schools getting all kinds of mention on TV. Meanwhile, the Big East will be on summer/fall vacation, and won't attract any attention until January after the college football season ends. It's two different sports, but money is money, and that's what matters most moving forward. Which is what makes the Big East closer in profile to the A10 than any of the Power Five conferences. KenPom stats do not matter, as the gap will only get wider in the years ahead.
 
09- respect your posts and advanced metrics, but these RPI and kenpom ratings are inherently flawed. NCAA hoops is a tough sport to apply metrics to. The eye tests and results are much more accurate at this point IMO.
 
Originally posted by phi_pirates:
09- respect your posts and advanced metrics, but these RPI and kenpom ratings are inherently flawed. NCAA hoops is a tough sport to apply metrics to. The eye tests and results are much more accurate at this point IMO.
I 100% disagree with your first two sentences but for the purpose of this discussion, let's focus on your last sentence. The eye test tells me most Big East teams are far superior to most A-10 teams. And the results prove it (7-2 record this season).
This post was edited on 4/19 9:09 PM by shu09
 
Originally posted by JIMSOULS:

It's not wins and losses that count; it's the money.
I couldn't care less about the money. All I care about are wins and losses, NCAA bids, what my eyes tell me and what tempo-free metrics tell me when evaluating the strength of a league.

I'd rather win a conference championship and a few games in the NCAA Tournament than finish 8th with no postseason and not worry about the wins and losses just because we're making FOX money now.

Maybe I'm old school, but that's how I see it.
 
You have to love message boards. I just wish they mirrored face-to-face conversation more closely, so I could laugh right in the face of the idiotic comments, if anyone had the stupidity to verbalize them.

To wit:

Someone has suggested, in the past, and still recommends that the athletics program "move down." I'm not sure any more commentary is really necessary.

Someone else suggested that you could "have the same things" in any college town as in New York City. Only a real rube would believe something like that. Sorry, Chapel Hill, Madison, Ann Arbor, Lawrence and New Brunswick can't really compare. If NYC is in cultural decline, it's only a symptom of the entirety of the entire culture circling the drain.
 
We shouldn't leave the Big East . It's a good fit for us in most sports-especially women's

Most of our female athletes who come from out of town- like SHU because of the diversity and proximity to NY. That's what they tell me anyway- golf team, volleyball team members.

But rah- rah? BCS football drives that.

100,000 people showed up for the Ohio State spring football scrimmage.!
 
Raphielle Johnson
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AP




Four-star shooting guard Brandon Sampson is one of the top players in the Class of 2015 who have yet to make a college choice. A native of Baton Rouge, Louisiana, Sampson was at one point in time a St. John's commit but decided to open things up in the aftermath of a head coaching change at the Big East school with LSU and Oklahoma State joining the Red Storm as college possibilities.

According to Ben Love of the Tiger Sports Report, Sampson will announce his college choice Monday morning. And the occasion will be an especially important one for the Red Storm, who are looking to fill out their roster under the guidance of new head coach Chris Mullin and associate head coach Barry Rohrssen and assistant coach Matt Abdelmassih.

Both LSU and Oklahoma State can use Sampson as well, and there's familiarity as well with the Tigers being the hometown school and Butch Pierre being on the staff at Oklahoma State.

However from a depth standpoint it can be argued that he would be of greater importance to St. John's. The Red Storm lost most of its rotation from last year's NCAA tournament team, including guards D'Angelo Harrison and Phil Greene IV and forward Sir'Dominic Pointer, with guard Rysheed Jordan and center Chris Obekpa being the most notable returnees.

And the importance of Sampson to his first recruiting class as head coach is a reason why Mullin was in Baton Rouge visiting with him over the weekend.

Thus far St. John's has received commitments from three players who will be able to play next season and a fourth in former Tennessee forward Tariq Owens who will have to sit out per NCAA transfer rules (Sammy Barnes-Thompkins reopened his recruitment Sunday).With Sampson's ability to score and St. John's present lack of depth, his decision is an important one for the program as is their ongoing recruitment of five-star forward Cheick Diallo (Iowa State, Kansas and Kentucky are also in the running for Diallo).

How well Mullin and his staff close these next couple of weeks will go a long way in setting the expectations for his debut season on the sideline.





This post was edited on 4/20 9:16 AM by Halldan1
 
Originally posted by Pirate64:

But rah- rah? BCS football drives that.

100,000 people showed up for the Ohio State spring football scrimmage.!
That was in Ohio, correct? Rutgers had an open practice on Saturday, and there were maybe 90 people there. This is the NY metropolitan area. I grew up a four season sports fan; college football was not one of those seasons, nor did I know many CFB fans, except for the obligatory UND, PSU, and BC-after Flutie ilk.

I certainly can appreciate a good college football game, but it's rare that I burn a nice Fall Saturday on the couch.
I don't think I'm alone in that, growing up in a state where the local State U team was a punch line, and with more than enough NFL teams within driving distance.
 
Originally posted by donnie_baseball:

Someone else suggested that you could "have the same things" in any college town as in New York City. Only a real rube would believe something like that. Sorry, Chapel Hill, Madison, Ann Arbor, Lawrence and New Brunswick can't really compare. If NYC is in cultural decline, it's only a symptom of the entirety of the entire culture circling the drain.
You'e completely wrong about this, as NYC is indeed in decline in respect to its empahsis on the arts and having things for young people to do. It's not nearly what it used to be, and doesn't offer the same opportunities that the better college towns offer. I recently spent a weekend in Raleigh-Durham; both two places were electric and swirling with affordable activities for college-aged kids. You simply don't get that in New York and some of the other major cities.

Culturally, America is in fine shape if you look in the right places. Unfortunately, the right places no longer include New York. It's merely a finance center now; that's not what college kids are looking for. Kids who go to some of those other places you mentioned are having an experience they simply wouldn't have in the big city.
 
Originally posted by JIMSOULS:


Originally posted by donnie_baseball:

Someone else suggested that you could "have the same things" in any college town as in New York City. Only a real rube would believe something like that. Sorry, Chapel Hill, Madison, Ann Arbor, Lawrence and New Brunswick can't really compare. If NYC is in cultural decline, it's only a symptom of the entirety of the entire culture circling the drain.
You'e completely wrong about this, as NYC is indeed in decline in respect to its empahsis on the arts and having things for young people to do. It's not nearly what it used to be, and doesn't offer the same opportunities that the better college towns offer. I recently spent a weekend in Raleigh-Durham; both two places were electric and swirling with affordable activities for college-aged kids. You simply don't get that in New York and some of the other major cities.

Culturally, America is in fine shape if you look in the right places. Unfortunately, the right places no longer include New York. It's merely a finance center now; that's not what college kids are looking for. Kids who go to some of those other places you mentioned are having an experience they simply wouldn't have in the big city.
You're talking about two different things: cheap, college-kid activities, and cultural events. They don't have to be mutually exclusive, however, to say that NYC is no longer a center of culture is absolutely false, and frankly, sounds like something a hayseed who's never been there would say. Now, I know you're not that, but you have been out of the area for some time. Living a short train ride outside of the five boroughs, I can say there are innumerable opportunities for culture (as there always has been), and you can't match the plain multi-ethnicity of a place like Queens, for instance.

As for college-aged kids, I can't say what the club scene is like anymore, but given the fact that there are dozens of thriving colleges and universities within city limits, surely they must have SOMETHING to do on weekends, and not all of them are trust fund-babies.
This post was edited on 4/20 9:51 AM by donnie_baseball
 
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