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Talent or coaching

Halldan1

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Jan 1, 2003
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It seems to be a mixed bag regarding this upcoming season. Most here are negative.

What's the reason? Past history? Poor coaching? Not enough talent? Other?

Without the sarcastic all of the above, why do you think we will under perform in 2015/16? Or do you think we'll surprise?
 
I think we will surprise. I think Isaiah and Angel are top notch BE players and Khadeen is right up there too. I like Desi at the three and think someone can give us minutes at the four. Freshman become sophs and we have not had talent like these kids in ages. I say it is gonna rise to where we anticipated when they committed. I say the staff will open the offense up to play faster and looser and that will mix well with our guys.
 
Coaching...Coaching...Coaching. Different players and the same results. A coach who is too stubborn to adjust, or too incompetent to change his strategy when adversity hits cannot win. How many times has he just sat there while we sank deeper into a hole and the players looked lost? How many times can we keep throwing a ball over half court on an in bounds play? The answer is too many. How many times do we pass the ball around the perimeter and inside looking for best possible shot? How many screens or pick and rolls do we run? The answer is not enough. And I am not even talking about the locker room issues. Mother Theresa could play for Willard and get so ticked off she would punch somebody. We could have an NBA All Star team,but still lose because chaos reigns in a locker room without a strong leader to reel them in. Willard is too weak or unable to handle the egos in the locker room and does not understand his players. They don't listen to him when the going gets tough, because they don't respect him. Gonzo's teams ran through a wall for him...Willard's teams quit mid-season and some leave before the year is even up.

It happens every year. The evidence is clear as day. Willard is an ineffectual leader. He is either too stubborn to change his ways or too incompetent to know how. And too weak to handle adversity and the egos in his own locker room.
 
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Well, after five miserable seasons, how do you just flip a switch and just change up what the coaching track record is? That's a lot to ask. Willard is a much bigger problem than the players. I think in the right hands these players could do something. That's the sad part. Explain to me after five seasons why defense is now important and will be a focal point.. I don't get that.
 
If I had to choose I believe the talent is mid level Big East. Which bodes well for the future as we only have one senior on the roster.

The question then becomes how the talent is managed.

I don't see the chemistry issues that split the team last season forcing Gibbs and Sina to leave rearing it's ugly head. The group, especially the core knows each other well having played with and against each other in HS and AAU.

That said, until a losing streak occurs no one can be sure what will happen behind closed doors.

The issue to me as it has been for the last five years lies on the bench. I still believe that Willard is a very knowledgeable coach. With his strength being more on the defensive side of the court. But there is no doubt that he has made some puzzling choices in his time here. And when combined with the locker room problems that have plagued the team in recent years that raises a red flag.

My opinion...we have enough talent if one or more of the new players surprise to be very competitive in the league. But it all starts at the top.

Willard is the key to our success or failure in 2015/16.
 
With good coaching this team could of been something this past season. If Willard is our key to success than we have no chance of success.
 
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first off, the question is what is the expectation for next season? Without a full look at our schedule, my expectation is that we will probably be looking at a 17 to 18 Regular Season win total headed into BET. In other words; a team that is on the bubble of the NCAA tourney bubble. Probably slightly sub .500 in conference record.

Can we do better than the above? Possible, but I can't see us being all that much better than the above. I think being able to have a clear replacement for Mobley may prove to be the bigger question than Gibbs' void.
 
I think being able to have a clear replacement for Mobley may prove to be the bigger question than Gibbs' void.

I agree and that's why I noted in another thread that Anderson could be this team's most important (not the best) player.

Angel needs help or he will once again wear down as the season progresses.

Our three headed guard tandem has talent. Up front? That's the question mark.
 
It is funny how almost universally we gave Amaker no credit for the Sweet 16 once he left, but we doom this team cause we have a coach who we don't respect. Yeah, I know, Sha and Rimas get the credit.....and maybe this year it is Isaiah and Angel and Khadeen.
 
Orr also got no credit, despite two (should have been three) NCAA appearances. Curious fan base.
 
There's more to coaching than just implementing strategies, player roles and techniques, and so on and so forth. It has to do with leadership, motivation, and the ability to adjust on the fly when things get tough. Those are the areas this coach sorely lacks and because of it our teams with him only do well if all goes according to plan.

I don't think Willard is a bad coach. I think he'd be great as an NBA assistant or something. I think he's a bad leader. He's a defensive coach that allows the players some freedom on offense while designing an overall structure that produces outside shots. We've seen him field good defensive teams when he has adequate personnel. But again, it has to go according to plan.

Plans get stale. Players lose confidence in a coach like that when things aren't going well. He often seems overwhelmed and that rubs off on the players. Why does he come off like that? IMO, it's because his plan doesn't work.

This team has had enough talent the past two seasons to be in NCAA contention and obviously back in 2011-12. We have not been because we lack the proper leadership.
 
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It is funny how almost universally we gave Amaker no credit for the Sweet 16 once he left, but we doom this team cause we have a coach who we don't respect. Yeah, I know, Sha and Rimas get the credit.....and maybe this year it is Isaiah and Angel and Khadeen.
Willard can't hold a candle to Amaker as a coach. Terrible comparison.
 
Willard can't hold a candle to Amaker as a coach. Terrible comparison.
Why? Bad coach but still made the Sweet 16. And just missed the Elite 8 by an uncharacteristic bad shooting day. Maybe this team can play well under this bad coach. That is my story till proven otherwise!
 
I am baffled by Willard when you look at his experience and bloodlines.He probably knows more about the game than all of us put together, but the performance has been dismal. I have known executives in many companies who were brilliant but as leaders they were so stubborn and incapable of adjusting to the world and competition that ultimately they failed.There is enough talent on this roster to be more than competitive and I will root with all my heart that Willard has learned from the past ,and will employ his basketball knowledge in a leadership style that adjusts to the needs of this level.
 
I will root with all my heart that Willard has learned from the past ,and will employ his basketball knowledge in a leadership style that adjusts to the needs of this level.

This is all we can do at this point. Unfortunately it's the same exact point that we've tried to make in each of the previous 3 offseasons with this guy. That at the very least these disappointing seasons could serve as some sort of "on the job training" and he can learn from them. But he doesn't and we get carbon copy results.

Sigh.

I'm not going boycott the program yet, so here's hoping the 6th season's the charm!!!
 
First let me just say that no matter how knowledgeable a coach is if he can't communicate his knowledge to the players and get them to accept it then how knowledgeable he is no longer is an asset. The other aspect that you have to consider is whether the players respect the coach enough to trust that what he's asking them to do is for the benefit of the team and the players. I'm not a player or in the locker room or on the court during games or practices so I can't speak with total accuracy but what I do know is that there is enough evidence to suggest that Kevin and the players have not been on the same page far too often during his tenure and the results we've seen on the court, especially the last three year confirms that. Is it talent or is it coaching , I think it's a lack of leadership that has been the biggest problem the last three years.
 
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First let me just say that no matter how knowledgeable a coach is if he can't communicate his knowledge to the players and get them to accept it then how knowledgeable he is no longer is an asset. The other aspect that you have to consider is whether the players respect the coach enough to trust that what he's asking them to do is for the benefit of the team and the players. I'm not a player or in the locker room or on the court during games or practices so I can't speak with total accuracy but what I do know is that there is enough evidence to suggest that Kevin and the players have not been on the same page far too often during his tenure and the results we've seen on the court, especially the last three years. Is it talent or is it coaching , I think it's a lack of leadership that has been the biggest problem the last three years.

Right on!
 
Ok i'll actually answer the question so my comment doesnt get deleted...


The answer is all of the above and its not sarcastic. You set up the question to make it seem that its nonsense to think all of those options are reasons we will underperform (we will actually perform fine compared to expectations). There is a laundry list.
 
I watched the core of this team play last year. They won six league games. Yes, the freshmen will become sophomores, but we also lose Gibbs (our best player), Mobley and Sina (two serviceable role players). Every offseason we invent new reasons why next year is going to be different. The narrative this offseason appears to be that we've eliminated all chemistry problems and will be changing our style (for like the third straight year) to a more defensive-minded approach. I'm not buying it. Objectively, I see a roster that could break through in 2 years. Not next year.
 
The problem with the question is that it all leads back to the same person. If there's not enough talent, whose fault is that? If it's past history, whose history is that? If its coaching, well....
 
What is considered under achieving and more importantly what is the administration's definition of under achieving this season? The last 2 year's here have been massive disappointments and there is nothing that makes me think this season won't be any different. I would think that in a coaches 6th year that its tourney or bust. To me, this doesn't look like a tournament team. It's probably 50/50 we get an NIT bid. Does the administration think making the NIT is underachieving? My guess is no.
 
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The NIT will not do it. Nor will a bubble team. I have heard from one of KW's friends that Kevin knows this. I hope he makes the dance, gets an offer that covers the buyout, and leaves NJ behind.

But this won't happen. I think we will do well with out of conference low level teams , lose to the Wichita State's of the world, and win about 5 Conference games.

Last year and the year before that, Shaheen said we would surprise people. Well we sure did- we stunk.
It makes me wonder if anyone on the staff can evaluate talent vis-a vis our competition. Cause that's what counts. "I love Sean Grennnan" said KW 5 years ago before the season.

"Who's that little boy out there who looks scared" -my wife when she saw him on the court at the Rock.
 
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If I had to choose I believe the talent is mid level Big East. Which bodes well for the future as we only have one senior on the roster.

The question then becomes how the talent is managed.

I don't see the chemistry issues that split the team last season forcing Gibbs and Sina to leave rearing it's ugly head. The group, especially the core knows each other well having played with and against each other in HS and AAU.

That said, until a losing streak occurs no one can be sure what will happen behind closed doors.

The issue to me as it has been for the last five years lies on the bench. I still believe that Willard is a very knowledgeable coach. With his strength being more on the defensive side of the court. But there is no doubt that he has made some puzzling choices in his time here. And when combined with the locker room problems that have plagued the team in recent years that raises a red flag.

My opinion...we have enough talent if one or more of the new players surprise to be very competitive in the league. But it all starts at the top.

Willard is the key to our success or failure in 2015/16.

Team chemistry has been a big issue under Willard every year. I expect it to be a problem again next year.

I agree that there is talent on this team. I think a good coach could dance next year with this group.

We know what we have in Kevin Willard and it's not good. Next season could get ugly, fast. What else is new though?
 
As Dan has mentioned elsewhere, Anderson will play a key role in what this team achieves. He needs to be a serviceable starter, which as to be considered a question mark at this time. Factor in the point-guard situation and an overall lack of perimeter shooting, and it's hard to imagine the team finishing higher than seventh. Given the aforementioned areas of concern, I think taking this team to the Big Dance would be a challenge for any coach, let alone Willard.

Every team has question marks heading into a new season; it just seems as if Seton Hall's are more pronounced than other teams in the Big East. The Pirates are generally ranked near the bottom of the conference in the pre-season poll. People here then complain about lack of respect, but the forecast usually winds up being pretty accurate. When those predictions are made, it's not just about the talent but the coaching as well. In this case, I wonder whether the personnel holes will be too much for this coach to overcome. There's some good talent, but some crucial pieces seem to be missing.
 
Well the biggest issue is poor coaching/program management.

But the overall talent level isn't where it needs to be either. In Delgado and Whitehead, you have 2 very good players, I think Whitehead will play better this year. Then you have nice, good players in Carrington and Rodriguez but every other Big East team has similar level players and more of them. Gordon's experience helps but the other non-freshmen have never done anything yet, there are too many of them that Seton Hall is looking to rely on. Then you have the freshmen of which only Singh is considered to be any good.

I see the top of the Big East not being as good as last year but the bottom of the conference being better, with Seton Hall again in the middle of the bottom.
 
I agree and that's why I noted in another thread that Anderson could be this team's most important (not the best) player.

Angel needs help or he will once again wear down as the season progresses.

Our three headed guard tandem has talent. Up front? That's the question mark.

I agree. I don't recall where I saw a video clip of Anderson prior to his accident and he had some very nice moves in the post. I have a feeling he may surprise many here this year. If we can get 8/8 I think we will be over .500 depending on our OOC.
 
Why? Bad coach but still made the Sweet 16. And just missed the Elite 8 by an uncharacteristic bad shooting day. Maybe this team can play well under this bad coach. That is my story till proven otherwise!
Amaker is not as bad a coach as you make him out to be. He coached that team up. When have we seen Willard do that?
 
Willard is the key to our success or failure in 2015/16.

That is a scary thought, and one that gives me no hope. Not one of the past 5 seasons has Willard been able to get his team to play above their talent level (at this point I'd be thrilled if we could just play close to our talent level for a full season). Lack of leadership, motivation, and communication skills from the coach seems to put a ceiling on where our talent can take us.

I think we have good young talent, but we are a very thin team. The starters have the talent to be a middle of the pack Big East team, but lack of depth (coach's fault) and Willard's shortcomings will be too much to overcome. I desperately hope that talent can trump the coach for next year, but with the past 5 years as my guide, I have my expectations in check.
 
Not a lot out there on Anderson beside our Trove interview which was in depth and concentrated a lot on BB, as opposed to Carino's excellent story that concentrated on Braeden's academic situation.

Here's a recent article about his leaving Fresno State......

HLpcf.So.8.jpg


At left Fresno State's Braeden Anderson battles against Bristol University's Adrian Brown for a rebound on Nov. 17, 2014. | THE FRESNO BEE

By Robert Kuwada - The Fresno Bee

  • Braeden Anderson has been released from the Fresno State men's basketball team so that he can concentrate on graduating this spring, leaving the Bulldogs' bench even shorter for the second half of the Mountain West Conference season.

    "Braeden is completing his degree this spring so he can pursue his goal of going to law school this fall," coach Rodney Terry said, in a release from the athletic department. "We wish him the best in his future endeavors."

    Fresno State also is without senior Alex Davis, who was suspended indefinitely for actions detrimental to the team last week prior to a loss at Colorado State.

    Paul Watson started at the four position against the Rams with Karachi Edo at the five and both are expected to start Wednesday against San Jose State at Save Mart Center with only freshman Terrell Carter II and non-scholarship walk-on Jerrod Patton behind them. Freshman forward Eugene Artison is taking a redshirt this season.

    Without Anderson and Davis and with Artison a redshirt, Fresno State had eight scholarship players.

    Anderson, a redshirt sophomore forward, has played sparingly this season coming back from career-threatening injuries suffered in a serious auto accident prior to the 2013-14 season.

    He played in 17 games, averaging one point and 1.8 rebounds in 10.6 minutes.

  • http://www.fresnobee.com/sports/col...tate/bulldogs-basketball/article19533606.html
 
I agree and that's why I noted in another thread that Anderson could be this team's most important (not the best) player.

Angel needs help or he will once again wear down as the season progresses.

Our three headed guard tandem has talent. Up front? That's the question mark.
These sophs will have the roles that seniors normally have.
None of these back court combinations are as good as the Shaheen/ Rimas senior year tandem. Not even close right now, although the potential is there.
 
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Amaker is not as bad a coach as you make him out to be. He coached that team up. When have we seen Willard do that?
Until he lost control in his last year, I thought amaker coached well at SHU, specially in his first two years when he kept us together and rallied to NIT bids. kw did it twice, but only for half a season at a time...
 
Until he lost control in his last year, I thought amaker coached well at SHU, specially in his first two years when he kept us together and rallied to NIT bids. kw did it twice, but only for half a season at a time...
the 1/2 seasons Kevin did it were the first half of both. Amaker distinguished himself in Feb and March. Amaker obviously struggled with managing a locker room too but his coaching was way better than KW has shown.
 
I think the point of Willard's teams starting well then fading is a really important point and indicative of all the criticism he's received. He wears off, cannot adjust, then is tuned out.

It's happened repeatedly and with completely different rosters and circumstances. His style is the one common denominator.
 
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