The article gives a good overview of the Catholic Church and science written by Physics professors at U of Del for those who may be interested. Happy Memorial Day weekend to all.
Wall Street Journal pA11 today
- Thread starter TrueBlue1989
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A related article. Fabulously interesting subject
https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/can-science-prove-the-existence-of-god-b6fefdc52588
https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/can-science-prove-the-existence-of-god-b6fefdc52588
If you were God and you were going to create intelligent life on ONE planet why'd you go and make the whole universe? Seems quite a waste of resources. Does anyone realize how big the universe is? And how completely insignificant Earth is in the grand scheme of things?
For whatever reason I've found myself in the last year or so becoming fascinated by things like the origin and scope of the universe and the rise of man and all such things. And everything I've read and seen makes the idea of God seem...well to be polite I'll just call it exceptionally dubious. Even this guy who wrote this article about science proving God ends by saying he doesn't believe in God. But to each their own.
For whatever reason I've found myself in the last year or so becoming fascinated by things like the origin and scope of the universe and the rise of man and all such things. And everything I've read and seen makes the idea of God seem...well to be polite I'll just call it exceptionally dubious. Even this guy who wrote this article about science proving God ends by saying he doesn't believe in God. But to each their own.
You raise some of the most ponderous questions man can consider. I respect your view but come out in a completely difference place. Atheists "believe" the the universe came out of nothing?! That always struck me as a bigger leap of faith than belief in the Trinity. Also, the idea that man, and all encompassed by humanity, happened by chance seems preposterous to me. Think about, human intellect, creativity, science and literature are random? Again, a huge leap in faith by atheist in my opinion.
Let me be clear, atheists also share a common faith. Their core beliefs include that matter can be neither created nor destroyed except when the world was created. Moreover, although the world was created, there is no creator. Finally, although there is order in the universe and laws of nature, there is no intelligent designer. Atheists hold that these "beliefs" are perfectly reasonable and, in fact, are scientificly based whereas those that believe in intelligent designs are blindly following an ascientific"faith"; I find this view extremely rich. We all have a faith but only some of us acknowledge it.
Thanks for the rational discussion.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but he uses the term "universe" 19 times, yet does his figuring based on one single galaxy, our Milky Way galaxy. It seems that he forgot to multiply his estimates by 100 billion, the number of galaxies in the observable universe.
That would make the odds heavily in favor (4 million to 1)* of life outside our planet capable of communicating with us, and vastly overwhelming odds of some type of life elsewhere.
*(1/25,000) * 100B.
Using his pessimistic estimates from this paragraph:
"If we take the optimistic estimate of the optimistic estimate above, perhaps 200 million worlds are out there capable of communicating with us, in our galaxy alone. But if we take the pessimistic estimate about both life arising and the odds of it achieving intelligence, there’s only a one-in-25,000 chance that our galaxy would have even one such civilization."
Thanks for posting!
Let me first suggest that this thread be immediately moved to "Life off the Ship" board!
That said, I hope the WSJ was better thought out than the link!
Can anyone please copy and paste the WSJ piece?
That said: there are more than three levels to the analysis.
Here are a few:
1. God does not want there to be empirical proof that He exists. He has supplied empirical evidence that the biblical message can be substantiated. God by design has supplied humans only with enough "evidence" to justify metanoia: a change of heart, to take Kierkegaard's "Leap of Faith"
2. All current scientific proof indicates that even with a huge string of Multiverses, there HAS to have been a non-natural "cause" to our universe (albeit not necessarily a purposeful cause).
3. There are six mathematical and scientific truths required for the universe as we know it ("Just Six Numbers" , Martin Reese); all scientists agree that the chance that our universe came into existence by accident is something like 1 in 10^124 power. (The estimate of the planets and stars in the Universe are something like 10^ 50 or so as I vaguely remember. So the chance this universe developed "by accident is something like 1 in 10^74) . Using the law's probabilistic scales of justice (DNA, fingerprints, retina codes, etc.), there can be no reasonable doubt it was not an accident.
4. (This is where the link starts). The specific requirements for "life" on a planet are so vast and varied that many --- not close to all ---scientists would appear to agree that, using the law's probabilistic scales of justice (DNA, fingerprints, retina codes, etc.), there can be no reasonable doubt it was not an accident.
5. The mitochondrial DNA of every human tested can be traced to one single woman as progenitor: ‘mitochondrial Eve’
6. The ‘Y-chromosomes’ of every human tested can be traced to one single man as progenitor: ‘Y-chromosome Adam' (or in my view ' Y-chromosome Noah’)
7. The scientific method is based on whether the predictions made under a hypothesis can be verified in practice, albeit on a repeatable basis. The Bible has scores if not hundreds of predictions (prophesies) made and virtually all seem to have been ultimately confirmed by human observation, but God has not cooperated with the scientists by being willing to repeat it again.
8. Based on the Judeo-Christian religions which came from these prophecies the world is statistically and unequivocally a much better place than it would have been.
9. There have been many authoritative studies by atheists that seem to verify that this probably could not have transpired without Christianity.
10. But NONE of that is PROOF because if there were empirical proof it would obviate God's whole plan of free will.
See you "Off Ship"
Let me first suggest that this thread be immediately moved to "Life off the Ship" board!
That said, I hope the WSJ was better thought out than the link!
Can anyone please copy and paste the WSJ piece?
That said: there are more than three levels to the analysis.
Here are a few:
1. God does not want there to be empirical proof that He exists. He has supplied empirical evidence that the biblical message can be substantiated. God by design has supplied humans only with enough "evidence" to justify metanoia: a change of heart, to take Kierkegaard's "Leap of Faith"
2. All current scientific proof indicates that even with a huge string of Multiverses, there HAS to have been a non-natural "cause" to our universe (albeit not necessarily a purposeful cause).
3. There are six mathematical and scientific truths required for the universe as we know it ("Just Six Numbers" , Martin Reese); all scientists agree that the chance that our universe came into existence by accident is something like 1 in 10^124 power. (The estimate of the planets and stars in the Universe are something like 10^ 50 or so as I vaguely remember. So the chance this universe developed "by accident is something like 1 in 10^74) . Using the law's probabilistic scales of justice (DNA, fingerprints, retina codes, etc.), there can be no reasonable doubt it was not an accident.
4. (This is where the link starts). The specific requirements for "life" on a planet are so vast and varied that many --- not close to all ---scientists would appear to agree that, using the law's probabilistic scales of justice (DNA, fingerprints, retina codes, etc.), there can be no reasonable doubt it was not an accident.
5. The mitochondrial DNA of every human tested can be traced to one single woman as progenitor: ‘mitochondrial Eve’
6. The ‘Y-chromosomes’ of every human tested can be traced to one single man as progenitor: ‘Y-chromosome Adam' (or in my view ' Y-chromosome Noah’)
7. The scientific method is based on whether the predictions made under a hypothesis can be verified in practice, albeit on a repeatable basis. The Bible has scores if not hundreds of predictions (prophesies) made and virtually all seem to have been ultimately confirmed by human observation, but God has not cooperated with the scientists by being willing to repeat it again.
8. Based on the Judeo-Christian religions which came from these prophecies the world is statistically and unequivocally a much better place than it would have been.
9. There have been many authoritative studies by atheists that seem to verify that this probably could not have transpired without Christianity.
10. But NONE of that is PROOF because if there were empirical proof it would obviate God's whole plan of free will.
See you "Off Ship"
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Oh yeah, one more thing! While Darwinian evolution makes a lot of scientific sense, it is all based on the prior existence of something called "Life".
Science in highly structured and environmentally controlled experiments have with rare success but with success nonetheless been able to evidence that it is possible --- albeit still incredibly unlikely anywhere but in a lab ---- the essential building blocks of life COULD be assembled in one place by accident. All there missing now is how those acids turned into life.
Science in highly structured and environmentally controlled experiments have with rare success but with success nonetheless been able to evidence that it is possible --- albeit still incredibly unlikely anywhere but in a lab ---- the essential building blocks of life COULD be assembled in one place by accident. All there missing now is how those acids turned into life.
Here is the article mentioned by the OP, "Planets, Priests, and a Persistent Myth. http://www.wsj.com/articles/planets-priests-and-a-persistent-myth-1432250521
