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Who is the better wing.

Who is the better 3, Ish or Desi?


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HallBall02

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Feb 26, 2007
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carino insists that Ish is a 3 and Desi is a 4. Although I agree that Desi is better in that paint than most 3s and not a great outside shooter, he is far better at this point with the ball in his hands than Ish (dribbling) and scoring, plus he can't shoot over big east 4s in the paint . Add the fact that he is 3 inches shorter than Ish, I feel Ish should add muscle and practice to be at the 4 while Desi should be doing more speed work and getting quicker. Your thoughts?
 
I like Desi at the 4 next year alongside Delgado. Unlike last season when we had Mobley and I thought Desi should've seen minutes at the 3, I think his skill set is needed at the 4 to start games.

Desi had a really productive freshman season. The majority and experience will help him to finish better around the rim, but I love his game inside and how he attacks the glass. Let's hope he doesn't morph into J-Rob II under Willard, however.

Oh, and I voted for Desi over Sanogo.
 
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Carino insists that Ish is a 3 and Desi is a 4. Your thoughts?

Ish is a no doubt about it 4 right now. He does not have the skill set to play outside the paint. That said, he does have the athleticism necessary to play the wing. It's up to him to use those physical abilities to maximize that potential.

Desi's future is as a wing player. Through need he played exclusively at the 4 last year, a decision I clearly did not agree with as I thought he could best be used as a combo forward.

Eventually playing the 4 he didn't have the chance to show what he could do as a 3 and lost that skill set. Hopefully this season with the influx of size Desi will return to his more natural small forward position.
 
I like Desi at the 4 next year alongside Delgado. Unlike last season when we had Mobley and I thought Desi should've seen minutes at the 3, I think his skill set is needed at the 4 to start games.

Desi had a really productive freshman season. The majority and experience will help him to finish better around the rim, but I love his game inside and how he attacks the glass. Let's hope he doesn't morph into J-Rob II under Willard, however.

Oh, and I voted for Desi over Sanogo.
Ish is a no doubt about it 4 right now. He does not have the skill set to play outside the paint. That said, he does have the athleticism necessary to play the wing. It's up to him to use those physical abilities to maximize that potential.

Desi's future is as a wing player. Through need he played exclusively at the 4 last year, a decision I clearly did not agree with as I thought he could best be used as a combo forward.

Eventually playing the 4 he didn't have the chance to show what he could do as a 3 and lost that skill set. Hopefully this season with the influx of size Desi will return to his more natural small forward position.
 
I don't think Ish had enough of floor time to evaluate his true talent. I do like Desi at the three, if we have a decent four
 
Desi has an advantage against other 3's under the basket. But when he is guarded by other teams 4, he didn't.
We need him to score and we need him playing the 3. We also need him to improve his outside shot to hit open 3's.
Btw, desi last year is better at the 1,2,3,4 and 5 compared to Ish. Although I like what ish can bring in the future.
 
Good points. To be clear though, this thread is not to poll who is the better player overall but where the player fits best playing against big east comp.

Can Ish ever be a power forward in the big east (gain strength, muscles, weight to his frame to battle down low?), or should he stay at the wing bc he can easily guard a 3 right now on defense? Can Desi get quick enough to guard a 3 on D and shoot better from long range on O to be a 3?

I wonder what the coaching staff thinks.
 
I think Desi is the best 4 on the roster. Not the ideal situation for him or the team, this speaks to a weak frontcourt, but I think the best team Seton Hall can put on the floor next year is with Delgado still at the 5 and Desi at the 4.
 
I think Desi is the best 4 on the roster. Not the ideal situation for him or the team, this speaks to a weak frontcourt, but I think the best team Seton Hall can put on the floor next year is with Delgado still at the 5 and Desi at the 4.
Steve, assuming you have IW playing the three? What happens if Gibbs doesn't come back? Who's playing the three, since IW will the PG.
 
Let's assume Gibbs comes back; if he doesn't none of this matters.

This team is poorly structured. I'd have Whitehead and Gibbs starting at the 1/2 (interchangably). Desi and Delgado start at the 4 and 5 spots. That leaves the 3. The best choice to start there IMHO is Singh. Not necessarily a good choice but the best choice given the roster and his skill set. Right place at the right time. Carrington is certainly starter material but with zero guard depth, he has to come off the bench. Then you've got 4 or 5 other frontcourt players that are not BE material. Just seems that it's better to be unconventional with Singh and Desi at the 3 and 4 slots who at least have some talent for their respective positions more so than to use far too many of the marginal frontcourt players. Whitehead will certainly play some 3, I see Desi playing some at the 3, and maybe a very little bit of Ish at the 3.

Certainly some talent but just not a well-structured team in my opinion.
 
Let's assume Gibbs comes back; if he doesn't none of this matters.

This team is poorly structured. I'd have Whitehead and Gibbs starting at the 1/2 (interchangably). Desi and Delgado start at the 4 and 5 spots. That leaves the 3. The best choice to start there IMHO is Singh. Not necessarily a good choice but the best choice given the roster and his skill set. Right place at the right time. Carrington is certainly starter material but with zero guard depth, he has to come off the bench. Then you've got 4 or 5 other frontcourt players that are not BE material. Just seems that it's better to be unconventional with Singh and Desi at the 3 and 4 slots who at least have some talent for their respective positions more so than to use far too many of the marginal frontcourt players. Whitehead will certainly play some 3, I see Desi playing some at the 3, and maybe a very little bit of Ish at the 3.

Certainly some talent but just not a well-structured team in my opinion.
I don't know much about Veer, but that's not a very intimidating front line defensively. That says volumes also about the quality of the front court "depth". "poorly constructed" is a term we've gotten familiar, much like "untenable".
 
I have to agree with the comments about our power players. But with that said IMO you just cannot play Desi major minutes upfront against quality teams.

A problem last year and that was with 6-8 Brandon Mobley playing the 4 was that we were small and not a very good rebounding team. Now we're going to replace Mobley in the starting lineup with the 6-5 Rodriquez? I sure as hell hope not.

My guess and at this point it's only a guess until I see more of the new players is that we will start.......

Delgado and one of the new big men, Anderson or Carter up front. Desi at the 3 and Gibbs and Whitehead in the backcourt.
 
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Desi is a better rebounder than Mobley. We won't lose anything there. While I'd rather see Seton Hall playing a taller lineup, a 6'5 power forward (especially one who rebounds as well as Rodriguez) isn't the end of the world. Pinkston and Pointer were the 2 best power forwards in the league last year and neither is taller than 6'7.
 
The problem is that the other options for the frontcourt just aren't any good so go with the best you've got.
 
Let's assume Gibbs comes back; if he doesn't none of this matters.

This team is poorly structured. I'd have Whitehead and Gibbs starting at the 1/2 (interchangably). Desi and Delgado start at the 4 and 5 spots. That leaves the 3. The best choice to start there IMHO is Singh. Not necessarily a good choice but the best choice given the roster and his skill set. Right place at the right time. Carrington is certainly starter material but with zero guard depth, he has to come off the bench. Then you've got 4 or 5 other frontcourt players that are not BE material. Just seems that it's better to be unconventional with Singh and Desi at the 3 and 4 slots who at least have some talent for their respective positions more so than to use far too many of the marginal frontcourt players. Whitehead will certainly play some 3, I see Desi playing some at the 3, and maybe a very little bit of Ish at the 3.

Certainly some talent but just not a well-structured team in my opinion.

I agree Singh may be the best other forward. IMO, subject to change when I see the new guys, Desi is our best three and four. It would be best if one of the new bigs could give us the type of play we got from Greg Morton gave in his frosh year for Amaker to allow Desi at the three and try to show the skills he showed Dan in some early practices. Some D, some rebounds, a follow up...with him not seeming overmatched that often and helping Sam do the heavy lifting.
 
Did any of our new recruits play any minutes at Seton Hall yet? SPK I would list your last post as not backed by fact.
 
The problem is that the other options for the frontcourt just aren't any good so go with the best you've got.
I guess what it comes down to in the Frontcourt is that we all hope that 1 or 2 of the young guys materializes into Big East quality talent. Angel and Desi are givens. I haven't seen any of these new guys play, but I sense that our best bets going forward would be Michael Nzei and Amarveer Singh. If the both are players, we should be okay up front
 
how does anyone know what Ish is? Willard started him at Butler (didn't think he played that bad) and basically buried him on the bench for the rest of the year.
 
our frontcourt is Delgado, Desi, and a bunch of other unprovens. We better hope someone steps up quick because that ain't cutting it in the league.
 
Let's assume Gibbs comes back; if he doesn't none of this matters.

This team is poorly structured. I'd have Whitehead and Gibbs starting at the 1/2 (interchangably). Desi and Delgado start at the 4 and 5 spots. That leaves the 3. The best choice to start there IMHO is Singh. Not necessarily a good choice but the best choice given the roster and his skill set. Right place at the right time. Carrington is certainly starter material but with zero guard depth, he has to come off the bench. Then you've got 4 or 5 other frontcourt players that are not BE material. Just seems that it's better to be unconventional with Singh and Desi at the 3 and 4 slots who at least have some talent for their respective positions more so than to use far too many of the marginal frontcourt players. Whitehead will certainly play some 3, I see Desi playing some at the 3, and maybe a very little bit of Ish at the 3.

Certainly some talent but just not a well-structured team in my opinion.

Couldn't agree more. This is how I see it as well with a lineup of Gibbs, Whitehead, Singh, Rodriguez, and Delgado.

While not ideal, I do think Desi can be a capable "4" in this league. He's a different player than Mobley and I think he'll help to improve upon our rebounding and interior defense.

We have a bunch of height and inexperience off the bench in that frontcourt (Nzei, Anthony, Anderson, Ajou, Carter). I don't know if any of them can give us more than 8-10 MPG next year. Someone needs to step up.

Have no idea if Sanogo can play behind Singh either.
 
I haven't seen any of these new guys play, but I sense that our best bets going forward would be Michael Nzei and Amarveer Singh. If the both are players, we should be okay up front

Agreed. A big if. If Nzei can do what Desi did last year in relief, then one of the other bigs is capable (likely Anderson?), it could be alright.

But still a HUGE question market. And such youth and inexperience again.
 
Desi is a better rebounder than Mobley. We won't lose anything there. While I'd rather see Seton Hall playing a taller lineup, a 6'5 power forward (especially one who rebounds as well as Rodriguez) isn't the end of the world. Pinkston and Pointer were the 2 best power forwards in the league last year and neither is taller than 6'7.

The issue is more than just rebounding. You lose a lot on the interior with a slender 6-5 defender going up against bigger and stronger players. Desi will get into foul trouble playing major minutes at the 4. His aggressiveness and lack of size will guarantee that.

Plus as the season continues the player will wear down. Playing Rodriquez who is a natural 3 (his opinion as well as mine) is a recipe for disaster. It will work against St Peter's and the like on our schedule. It will not work against better teams.
 
The issue is more than just rebounding. You lose a lot on the interior with a slender 6-5 defender going up against bigger and stronger players. Desi will get into foul trouble playing major minutes at the 4. His aggressiveness and lack of size will guarantee that.

Plus as the season continues the player will wear down. Playing Rodriquez who is a natural 3 (his opinion as well as mine) is a recipe for disaster. It will work against St Peter's and the like on our schedule. It will not work against better teams.

I actually think Desi has the frame, motor, and ability to pull it off as an undersized-4. Mobley had the height advantage, but was like a stick.
 
The issue is more than just rebounding. You lose a lot on the interior with a slender 6-5 defender going up against bigger and stronger players. Desi will get into foul trouble playing major minutes at the 4. His aggressiveness and lack of size will guarantee that.

Plus as the season continues the player will wear down. Playing Rodriquez who is a natural 3 (his opinion as well as mine) is a recipe for disaster. It will work against St Peter's and the like on our schedule. It will not work against better teams.

Can't dispute that, you are correct. Problem is, acknowledging that, there is nobody better on the roster. All others are either poor defensively, foul-prone, poor offensively, or all of the above.
 
Can't dispute that, you are correct. Problem is, acknowledging that, there is nobody better on the roster. All others are either poor defensively, foul-prone, poor offensively, or all of the above.

Most are all of the above
 
Gibbs, Whitehead, Singh, Desi, and Delgado looks to be the best lineup with Carrington as the 6th man. That is a really small lineup which we can probably get away with in the non-conference but that won't work in the league. We will absolutely get destroyed on the glass. Need Nzei, Carter, Anderson, and/or Ish to to make an immediate impact early in the season.
 
In my opinion, we won't beat any ncaa tourney teams with Desi playing the 4 for the majority of the time. Singh has height for a 3 but at this point is too frail to help Desi in the paint with defending and rebounding power forwards even with zone defense.


My thoughts...hoping a 7 foot 2 wingspan or a former Kansas recruit make an immediate impact. If one of the, becomes a reliable center, Desi, Delgado go to their rightful positions, not to mention carrington and whitehead never play 3 which is good as well. Would hate to see Desi at 4, no excuses now that we have 7 players to play two power positions.


Gibbs/Carrington
Whitehead/Carrington/dalton
Desi/Singh
Delgado/Ish/nzei
Anderson or Carter/Anthony/Ajou
 
WE HAVE SEVEN PLAYERS TO PLAY TWO POSITIONS NOT INCLUDING OUR BEST WING IN DESI....PLEASE NO DESI AS POWER FORWARD!

I hope my all caps sends a message to the coaching staff :)
 
Can't dispute that, you are correct. Problem is, acknowledging that, there is nobody better on the roster. All others are either poor defensively, foul-prone, poor offensively, or all of the above.

I think the point made by you and others about an unbalanced team is spot on. Unless one of our new bigs performs at a high level we have issues.

But with that said short of Carter, Nzei, Ish or Anderson falling flat on their faces you just cannot play a wing player and a slender one at that at the 4. He'll get eaten up on D and will be in constant foul trouble taking a very important player off the court.

It's not always about playing the best players it's about playing the best team and IMO that doesn't include major minutes for Rodriquez at the 4.
 
But with that said short of Carter, Nzei, Ish or Anderson falling flat on their faces you just cannot play a wing player and a slender one at that at the 4. He'll get eaten up on D and will be in constant foul trouble taking a very important player off the court.

Absolutely. With a proper roster. But you can't put bad basketball players in there either and that is pretty much what is left for Seton Hall in the frontcourt.
 
I agree with Dan that Desi should be playing the 3. SPK raises some valid points. Do we see any player development in Anthony, Ish and Ajou in year 2? How much can Anderson, Carter and Nzei really contribute? Those will be they key ?'s
 
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