1 Down, 2 To Go

[Piratz]

Really think we need to sweep this 3-game set against teams that I feel we are better than (SJU, at Creighton, Marquette). If the team can take care of business, we'd be sitting in a really good spot at 16-6, 6-4.

Last night was a good tune up for Saturday; team played well overall, starters played less minutes. That's a big game. Revenge game.

Doing so would put the team in an optimal situation for a stretch run. Of course losing one doesn't ruin anything, but you'd like to make a statement and make life easier. If you look at how the schedule breaks down, it gets tricky after this trio passes (KenPom rank):

Sat Jan 30 at Creighton (#34)
Wed Feb 3 vs Marquette (#120)
------------------------------------------------
Sat Feb 6 vs. Georgetown (#50)
Wed Feb 10 vs. Butler (#37)
Wed Feb 17 at Georgetown (#50)
Sun Feb 21 at St. John's/MSG (#253)
Thu Feb 25 vs. Providence (#43)
Sun Feb 28 vs. Xavier (#15)
Wed Mar 2 at Butler (#37)
Sat Mar 5 at DePaul (#160)

Seton Hall's current KP rank is #38.

 

[Vegas pj]

If you look at how the schedule breaks down, it gets tricky after this [Creighton] )

Because then its February, a SH fan's favorite time of year during what's his name's tenure.

 

[TheBluePirate]

Let's just stay on the bus and see how it goes.

 

[lloyde dobler]

It's the Big East, so you have to count on a frustrating slip up (or two) somewhere... It's just the way it is in the league. The key is to win or game or two that is someone else's slip up. That's what ultimately separates the really good from the good teams in the Big East.

 

[TheBluePirate]

If we go back to Omaha and wreck their day, it would cancel out the um stain factor of that loss.

 

[catholicman]

If we go back to Omaha and wreck their day, it would cancel out the um stain factor of that loss.

So right. I hope we play like tigers from the opening tip until the last second.

 

[Piratz]

Saying the right things.

Whitehead on the rematch with Creighton Saturday: “We really, absolutely, 100 percent got embarrassed by Creighton. Just seeing that on their chest is going to being a lot out of us to get that win I think we deserve.”

http://www.app.com/story/sports/col...-5-quotes-seton-halls-rout-st-johns/79449186/

 

[donnie_baseball]

I'm not sure we're better than Creighton, but I hope that losing to them like we did, at home, will help.

Marquette is funny -- I'm still surprised we handled them so well, with Fischer and Ellenson, the first time. I think that's going to be a dogfight. As Vegas PJ has implied, don't be shocked if we lose both.

 

[newshu]

We wont win all 3, it is impossible to predict wins and losses we are going to steal a win or 2 as underdogs and probably slip up on a few as well. I see us losing @ Depaul for instance

 

[sportsfantatic44]

If you want to be a tourney team this is a game that we need to win on the road.

 

[Hall91]

a loss against any of those 3 (Marquette, St. John's, DePaul) would have to be seen as a very bad loss and a possible dagger to any NCAA hopes. Need to win them all.

 

[Piratz]

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

Nice!

 

[jimmylanjello]

Thanks for re-surfacing this thread Piratz! I love re-examining these things with the benefit of hindsight. Some nuggets:

Vegas PJ: "Because then its February, a SH fan's favorite time of year during what's his name's tenure"

Donnie B: "I'm not sure we're better than Creighton, but I hope that losing to them like we did, at home, will help. Marquette is funny -- I'm still surprised we handled them so well, with Fischer and Ellenson, the first time. I think that's going to be a dogfight. As Vegas PJ has implied, don't be shocked if we lose both."

New shu: "We wont win all 3, it is impossible to predict wins and losses we are going to steal a win or 2 as underdogs and probably slip up on a few as well. I see us losing @ Depaul for instance"

For lack of a better word, I will characterize these 3 guys as suffering from a condition called "pessimism". As I have said before, I am not here to say the pessimism is not well-deserved. Kinda like a dog that has been kicked every time it comes in to the house expects to be kicked next time it comes in. But there hasn't been any kicking this season, here we are in February, with nothing but yet another defense-inspired W to show for the month. At some point do any of these guys start to let the pessimism go and start enjoying the condition called "optimism"? It sure is more fun...

 

[Halldan1]

Speaking of Creighton. Were they so fragile that losing in devastating fashion to Georgetown by a point results in a free fall the rest of the year?

Georgetown L, 74-73 Away

Seton Hall L, 75-65 Home

Villanova L, 83-58 Away

 

[TheBluePirate]

Dan, this raises an interesting point - how teams respond to the important crisis moments in the season.

What's fascinating is that it usually takes a long stretch of evidence for observers to detect what each crisis point was and what the real response to it was.

One thing that seems to becoming clearer regarding our team is that they realize - now they have been through the cycle one time against their peers - they have an ability to dominate physically. That knowledge seems to infuse an even greater potential confidence into the team, making them even possibly more dangerous going forward.

 

[Halldan1]

Our critical juncture was the loss to that same Creighton team.

What a great job by everyone involved from the staff to the players who rebounded from that poor effort.

Also, major kudos for Gordon calling the players only meeting to ensure everyone was on the same page and a repeat of last season's meltdown didn't happen.

 

[TheBluePirate]

I think you're right.

What I'm trying to get at is we knew it was a critical juncture or event, but we had no idea how the team would fundamentally respond.

In previous years, we saw a positive response for one game or two games and then a reversion to train wreck. I'm not talking about standard apprehensiveness or skepticism (which I naturally have shared). It's more about waiting to see a longer term trend to validate the true nature of the response to a major event.

So - with the Creighton loss, we had the critical event. But the trend of the response has been for the team to play stronger and stronger, game after game.

Of course - that's the announcer's curse - OUCH! But - the trend is strongly positive since that time.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

I don't think we need to win all 3, but we do need to play better each game. For example, We could play great D vs Butler but Dunham might just be in a zone that night. I hope we go 3-0 but it's not a must. It certainly would make the rest of the year more relaxing. 3-0 would make an interesting scenario, a full week of everyone telling us how great we are. That's something difficult for a lot of athletes to handle, I would take 3-0 and that situation every time.

 

[Piratz]

Our critical juncture was the loss to that same Creighton team.

What a great job by everyone involved from the staff to the players who rebounded from that poor effort.

Also, major kudos for Gordon calling the players only meeting to ensure everyone was on the same page and a repeat of last season's meltdown didn't happen.

That was the game you circle. Getting run out of the building at home, benching 3 starters... The stuff that can make or break teams. We definitely did not take Creighton seriously that day, IMO.

We have played we a newfound focus ever since and I am really impressed and excited to have a good basketball team for a change!!! Credit to KW and staff.

 

[Halldan1]

 

[Piratefan2009]

For lack of a better word, I will characterize these 3 guys as suffering from a condition called "pessimism". As I have said before, I am not here to say the pessimism is not well-deserved. Kinda like a dog that has been kicked every time it comes in to the house expects to be kicked next time it comes in. But there hasn't been any kicking this season, here we are in February, with nothing but yet another defense-inspired W to show for the month. At some point do any of these guys start to let the pessimism go and start enjoying the condition called "optimism"? It sure is more fun...

It's precious you posted this on the same day a Hall player choked out a grad assistant in front of a gym full of kids playing an intramural pick up game in the Rec Center.

jimmylanjello: "But there hasn't been any kicking this season"

I'll be at the game tomorrow night. I'll be as optimistic as possible.

 

[jimmylanjello]

It's precious you posted this on the same day a Hall player choked out a grad assistant in front of a gym full of kids playing an intramural pick up game in the Rec Center.

jimmylanjello: "But there hasn't been any kicking this season"

I'll be at the game tomorrow night. I'll be as optimistic as possible.

Gotta give it to you guys...when the guys who actually play for us have their collective sh*t together and not only win games, but win them well with solid team play, you can still find something wrong with the team in red shirt land. It's a real talent, you should be proud of the misery you can wrap around yourselves. (And before you start, no I don't think what Jevon did is remotely OK, but he has absolutely no ability to impact this season so focusing on it as if it's the start of something that will lead to a February blow-up is, well, far-fetched. But not if you're a true pessimist I guess.).

And for the record, there is no inherent limit to optimism, so your pledge to be "as optimistic as possible" tomorrow reflects only on you and your internal limitations!

 

[TheBluePirate]

Gotta give it to you guys...when the guys who actually play for us have their collective sh*t together and not only win games, but win them well with solid team play, you can still find something wrong with the team in red shirt land. It's a real talent, you should be proud of the misery you can wrap around yourselves. (And before you start, no I don't think what Jevon did is remotely OK, but he has absolutely no ability to impact this season so focusing on it as if it's the start of something that will lead to a February blow-up is, well, far-fetched. But not if you're a true pessimist I guess.).

And for the record, there is no inherent limit to optimism, so your pledge to be "as optimistic as possible" tomorrow reflects only on you and your internal limitations!

Interesting stuff. Believe it was SHUSource who made a really good case for why there's an impact - that a red shirt scholarship player is a functioning contributing team member with only one limitation, cannot play on the court in official games. So - there will be an impact (despite your dramatic language), and many posters are concerned.

Oh my. Don't they teach shades of gray and nuance and variety of positions anymore? Alas.

 

[jimmylanjello]

Interesting stuff. Believe it was SHUSource who made a really good case for why there's an impact - that a red shirt scholarship player is a functioning contributing team member with only one limitation, cannot play on the court in official games. So - there will be an impact (despite your dramatic language), and many posters are concerned.

Oh my. Don't they teach shades of gray and nuance and variety of positions anymore? Alas.

Blue, if that last line was directed at me, I guess I wasn't taught the subtle gradations you are so gently hinting at in fine daguerrotype, because I actually don't know where you're going with that one. Sorry, hit me with a hammer next time and I'll know what you hit me with.

As for Source's comment, he is correct that there can be an indirect impact on the team via their preparation for games, BUT:
1) the theme of this line of discussion was the pessimists who think this event will mark the beginning of a dark path to destruction for our Pirates, which it won't and
2) If you have had a chance to see Jevon's interactions with the rest of the team (I have), it is clear that he is not a central figure in any way, either personally or in practice. Frankly, he wouldn't be missed even if he weren't redshirting this year and I suspect this will only serve to further galvanize the rest of the team into a focus on maintaining winning habits and not letting anything else get in the way of those habits. This event will stand out to the team as an excellent example of how little things can knock them off the course they all want to be on. I would be surprised if DG hasn't already made this point to the rest of the team, and if they haven't embraced it.

 

[Piratz]

This team has demonstrated resiliency, they've played tough, and they are rolling right now. They've got us in line to finally lure in that elusive NCAA berth. They are exorcising a lot of demons that have plagued this program for years. They just swept this 3-game stand and took teams to the woodshed in resounding fashion.

THAT's taking care of business like a winner. Credit to them and staff. Let's go.

I do not think the actions of a player who has not played a single minute and wasn't going to be a contributor this year will have any impact. We've got a head of steam.

 

[TheBluePirate]

BUT:
1) the theme of this line of discussion was the pessimists who think this event will mark the beginning of a dark path to destruction for our Pirates, which it won't

In this case, fair enough, and I agree with your point.