Afghanistan

[knowknow456]

The President gave an important speech last night regarding our commitment in Afghanistan. CNN provided a text of the speech, which is attached.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/21/polit...+-+Politics)&utm_content=Yahoo+Search+Results

 

[Section112]

I liked the first part of the speech where he was clearly reaching out to America and trying to make amends and get people together. It will ring hollow to many because of his previous wacky and inconsistent comments. But I hope it means that some of his advisors are getting through to him. I wish we were not in Afghanistan any more and hope this is the beginning of the end. 16-17 years is way too long.

 

[HALL85]

I liked the first part of the speech where he was clearly reaching out to America and trying to make amends and get people together. It will ring hollow to many because of his previous wacky and inconsistent comments. But I hope it means that some of his advisors are getting through to him. I wish we were not in Afghanistan any more and hope this is the beginning of the end. 16-17 years is way too long.

+1. The speech had a good message and tone. Almost 17 years is unfathomable...remember getting on a plane that Monday morning in October at Newark that it all started.

 

[shu09]

I was very disappointed in the speech. We've been there long enough, I think it's time we reduce our influence and let the Afghan government stand or fall on its own. I am not opposed to a small tactical/covert team staying there, but any noticeable presence of American troops should be removed.

This was the president caving to the military industrial complex and the hard line neocons/interventionists around him. Most, if not all, modern presidents have done the same thing. It's disappointing because I had hopes that this president would stand up to them.

 

[Section112]

I was very disappointed in the speech. We've been there long enough, I think it's time we reduce our influence and let the Afghan government stand or fall on its own. I am not opposed to a small tactical/covert team staying there, but any noticeable presence of American troops should be removed.

This was the president caving to the military industrial complex and the hard line neocons/interventionists around him. Most, if not all, modern presidents have done the same thing. It's disappointing because I had hopes that this president would stand up to them.

War is good for business unfortunately.

 

[SnakeTom]

Just one more broken campaign promise.

TK

 

[Pirata]

I thought I'd take a crack at discussing the issue as opposed to using the topic as yet another vehicle to bash Trump.

My theory:

I think there is a follow the money play going on. The terrorist are funded. They pay the Taliban who provide their security. The Taliban pay Pakistan for some sort of understanding about how operations are conducted. US Intelligence/Military knows what is going on.

IMO, calling out Pakistan a good thing. Screw being nice and polite and diplomatic. We send them billions and they are playing both sides.

I am anxious to see if chaning the rules of engagement have an impact.

I recall the insane rules of engagements during Vietnam. VC attacking and then running across the border into Laos where we were not allowed to go.

Reminds me of when I was a kid in Brooklyn and my parents said we were not allowed in the street. The kid next door would punch my brother and then run into the street. One day my parents gave my brother permission to go into the street. That was the last time he got punched by the kid next door.

 

[SnakeTom]

I agree with you on Pakistan but why don't we also do it with Saudi Arabia. I also agree with the President that we should stop this notion of nation building. This is where both George W Bush and Obama got into trouble by attempting to promote democracies in an area where this rarely works (Gaza, Libya, Egypt, Syria). Our foreign policy should be to aid friendly governments not be concerned with their form of government. All too often we jumped in to support the "good guys" who turned out to be our enemies & not be the good guys.

Tom K

 

[shu09]

I agree with you on Pakistan but why don't we also do it with Saudi Arabia. I also agree with the President that we should stop this notion of nation building. This is where both George W Bush and Obama got into trouble by attempting to promote democracies in an area where this rarely works (Gaza, Libya, Egypt, Syria). Our foreign policy should be to aid friendly governments not be concerned with their form of government. All too often we jumped in to support the "good guys" who turned out to be our enemies not be the good guys.

Tom K

This.

 

[HALL85]

This.

This +1. Amazing posters that have very different views, ideologies and positions can discuss like adults find logical solutions and areas of agreement...Congress?? Hello??

 

[cernjSHU]

This what happens when Presidents actually get into office and hear the top secret intelligence. Clearly, this was a military decision because Trump wanted out. We as citizens operate with incomplete information most of the times with regard to this. Afghanistan is a lawless country and very difficult to manage without brute force.

I agree with Snake Tom that in some of these countries where there is absolutely no regard for democratic notions and never had it in their history, thinking a democracy would work there is pure fantasy. We have made that mistake in Afghanistan and in Iraq. In countries like this you need a strong dictator but hopefully one who is not a maniac. Remember having sadaam Hussein in power was much better for the US interest than what is happening now.

I have no issue with sending more troops there. But the real question is when will our presence ever not be needed? I heard from someone on tv years ago that we will have a presence in Afghanistan for 100 years. It may be worth it to keep us safer here in the US. These are very difficult issues.

 

[Pirata]

All too often we jumped in to support the "good guys" who turned out to be our enemies not be the good guys.

We had at one time and in some cases still backed:

Shah of Iran
Saddam Hussein (CIA hired him in 1958)
Osama Bin Laden
ISIS
Gaddaffi
Saudi Arabia
Emílio Garrastazu Médici - Brazil - 1971
Hosni Mubarak - Egypt
Pinochet - Chile - 1973
Mobutu - Zaire
Contras of Nicaragua
Gurbanguly Berdimuhamedow - Turkmenistan
Batista - Cuba
Khmer Rouge

There are several others.

 

[Pirata]

This is what happens when Presidents actually get into office and hear the top secret intelligence. .... We as citizens operate with incomplete information most of the times with regard to this.

Exactly.

The average American hasn't a clue.

By training I can attest to, "the people who know are not talking".

 

[cernjSHU]

We had at one time and in some cases still backed:

Shah of Iran
Saddam Hussein (CIA hired him in 1958)
Osama Bin Laden
ISIS
Gaddaffi
Saudi Arabia
Emílio Garrastazu Médici - Brazil - 1971
Hosni Mubarak - Egypt
Pinochet - Chile - 1973
Mobutu - Zaire
Contras of Nicaragua
Gurbanguly Berdimuhamedow - Turkmenistan
Batista - Cuba
Khmer Rouge

There are several others.

When did the US ever back ISIS? It was not even in existence until after the invasion of Iraq. Also, the US did not back the Khmer Rouge. There is a very disputed claim out there about support but that's it.

We have to support regimes that are in our interests. This may not be pretty nor the ideal allies. But sometimes necessary. This is exactly what is going on with Saudi Arabia. It is an affront to our notions of a free society how women are treated there. However, while we may not like how that country operates, the alternative would be a lot worse. We need Saudi Arabia on our side. These are incredibly complex relations and not black and white by no means. At first blush you may say that it is hypocritical of our government. But, that is superficial way of analyzing the situation.

 

[Pirata]

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

 

[Muggsy Blue]

I was hoping he would go rogue and announce we were getting the hell out of there. Sorry to see, the generals are still in charge when it comes to war games.