Basketball - SHU vs SJU
- Thread starter Halldan1
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Imo the existence of the BE at this date as a major conference is not a given and Mullin helps make NYC a BE bastion which we need badly. So ultimately that is very good.
I am not sure SHU being big is good for us - we are on our own - but the BE staying really big IS a requirement for our future. The 89 team was a bunch of NYC kids not considered good enough for Louie.
Long way of saying good
I am not sure SHU being big is good for us - we are on our own - but the BE staying really big IS a requirement for our future. The 89 team was a bunch of NYC kids not considered good enough for Louie.
Long way of saying good
I think with the current state of SHU mens hoops, it's a bad thing when just answering the question of the OP. Just shows the glaring difference between the Administrations on what they appear willing to do with their flagship programs. STJ has all the "juice" right now and is the media darling. What Mullin does with it remains to be seen, but he appears off to a good start. If he can land Diallo things are really looking up.
As for the league itself, it's definitely a good thing.
As for the league itself, it's definitely a good thing.
It's very good for the Big East so as an extension of that, it's good for SHU because it keeps the BE relevant and in the news. Old story...if you get the coaches, you will get the players. Mullin is one of those coaches.
At the end of the day though SHU is responsible for SHU. Mullin raises the bar, so either you do the same or you get your head beaten in even worse going forward. Is that what we want? Does it matter? To be in a more competitive conference and be less competitive in it? Losing is losing....the degree of it just changes.
At the end of the day though SHU is responsible for SHU. Mullin raises the bar, so either you do the same or you get your head beaten in even worse going forward. Is that what we want? Does it matter? To be in a more competitive conference and be less competitive in it? Losing is losing....the degree of it just changes.
Short term: bad. Hurts our chances of distinguishing ourselves in conference anytime soon, winning recruiting NY/NJ recruiting battles, etc.
Big picture: good. Strengthens perceptions of the conference as a major conference with three marquee brands / teams (Nova, Georgetown, St Johns)
Big picture: good. Strengthens perceptions of the conference as a major conference with three marquee brands / teams (Nova, Georgetown, St Johns)
No, it's not good for Seton Hall.
May be good for the Big East on a macro level but absolutely hurts Seton Hall on the micro level, it's a zero sum game.
Seton Hall needs to step it up soon or be doomed to continued crap fore quite some time.
May be good for the Big East on a macro level but absolutely hurts Seton Hall on the micro level, it's a zero sum game.
Seton Hall needs to step it up soon or be doomed to continued crap fore quite some time.
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anon_4htvdezyfe7k9
Guest
Basically agree 100% with this.
Never understood the sentiment that rival teams (especially local rivals who are competing for the same recruits) getting better is good for us. For it to matter we need the decision makers at SHU (whoever they are) to stop making terrible decisions and that hasn't happened in 15 years. Good for the BE overall, but right now, not good for us.
This post was edited on 4/20 10:43 AM by phi_pirates
It's very good for Seton Hall and here's why.
1. It raises the bar. Sometimes you get complacent and don't work as hard as you need to work. This is a smack in the face of the administration, the coaching staff and the players. If they want to be relevant they must respond.
2. Whatever is good for the league is good for the individual teams. The league must bring in prominent recruits to match up with the Big Five and stay relevant on the college landscape.
3. NY is the media capital of the world. It needs a strong program to make local and eventually national headlines. Especially since ESPN will be of little help in promoting the Big East.
4. Seton Hall reached it's height with PJ only because of Mullin/SJU, Pickney/Nova, Ewing/Georgetown, Coleman/Syracuse, etc, etc. They set the table and opened the door to making the Big East the great BB conference that it became. And because of the success of those school PJ was able to bring SHU from the depths of the league to a bad call away from winning it all.
1. It raises the bar. Sometimes you get complacent and don't work as hard as you need to work. This is a smack in the face of the administration, the coaching staff and the players. If they want to be relevant they must respond.
2. Whatever is good for the league is good for the individual teams. The league must bring in prominent recruits to match up with the Big Five and stay relevant on the college landscape.
3. NY is the media capital of the world. It needs a strong program to make local and eventually national headlines. Especially since ESPN will be of little help in promoting the Big East.
4. Seton Hall reached it's height with PJ only because of Mullin/SJU, Pickney/Nova, Ewing/Georgetown, Coleman/Syracuse, etc, etc. They set the table and opened the door to making the Big East the great BB conference that it became. And because of the success of those school PJ was able to bring SHU from the depths of the league to a bad call away from winning it all.
It is somewhat good in my opinion. We can be subpar in Big East whether the overall level of the conference is good or bad.
Mullin and a good SJU will help the conference level overall. But all that doesn't matter to SHU in the standings until we are ready to compete with the other "big boys", which we cannot seem to do over the last 10+ years. Also, maybe this will be a wake up call for the administration at SHU to make the right choices and commitment moving forward with the program.
Mullin and a good SJU will help the conference level overall. But all that doesn't matter to SHU in the standings until we are ready to compete with the other "big boys", which we cannot seem to do over the last 10+ years. Also, maybe this will be a wake up call for the administration at SHU to make the right choices and commitment moving forward with the program.
So far we have shown ZERO fight in trying to immediately improve our flagship program. A program with serious intentions led by someone with a huge drive to improve the flagship program that they are guarding would have found some way to make the changes that were necessary. I do not buy the his hands were tied response. Any leader of a program that has serious aspirations would have found a way to do what was necessary. Instead, we are left floundering in the infantile hope that somehow, someway, just maybe, this upcoming year will be better. If by some miracle we finally do perform, hopefully Willard will be scooped up by another program. How weak is all of this wishful thinking?
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anon_4htvdezyfe7k9
Guest
All good points, I guess I just take the beaten down, pessimistic view that it really doesn't matter unless we ourselves can start to become relevant again. Given that, I think point #1 is the best of the 4 in terms of how it could benefit SHU. Let's see if that actually happens.
No question that it's good for the Conference and it may prove to be invaluable in maintaining our relationship with Fox and the revenue stream that relationship produces. What's important is for SH to get off its ass and commit to do what is necessary to become a consistent tourney team. I could point to every other team in the Conference and say , with a high degree of confidence , that they are fully committed to success for their men's basketball program yet at this point in time I could not say that about ours.
I must comment on one of Dan's points and that is " Sometimes you get complacent and don't work as hard as you need to work. " iIf there is one program that should never get complacent it's ours and if there is one program that should never be out worked its ours. That applies to not only Willard but Morton and Hill as well as Lyons . I have deliberately left Sha out because Sha is never going to be out worked .
If SJU regains national prominence then I tip my hat to them and to their commitment to continue to do so. Remember hiring Lavan showed how important getting back to prominence was to them and even though it didn't work out they went even further with this move and how much money they have poured into hiring an outstanding staff of assistants.l
This effort by SJU is like a poker game where SJU goes all in and now it's up to SH to go all in or to fold .
I must comment on one of Dan's points and that is " Sometimes you get complacent and don't work as hard as you need to work. " iIf there is one program that should never get complacent it's ours and if there is one program that should never be out worked its ours. That applies to not only Willard but Morton and Hill as well as Lyons . I have deliberately left Sha out because Sha is never going to be out worked .
If SJU regains national prominence then I tip my hat to them and to their commitment to continue to do so. Remember hiring Lavan showed how important getting back to prominence was to them and even though it didn't work out they went even further with this move and how much money they have poured into hiring an outstanding staff of assistants.l
This effort by SJU is like a poker game where SJU goes all in and now it's up to SH to go all in or to fold .
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anon_4htvdezyfe7k9
Guest
About 3 months ago would anyone have traded places with SJU? They were off to a terrible conference start with no recruits for 2015 and we were nationally ranked. They make the tournament, hire Mullin and start making serious noise on the national media and recruiting fronts. Amazing how quickly things can change. So we got that going for us.
I am not sure if any other BE school is dependent on a good BE than us. I do agree that it is up to us to get our house in order. But the buzz of NYC papers touting the huge game at MSG is good as it makes the BE a destination in kids' minds, and we are seriously in danger of being overrun by the unholy behemoth of fb.
Is without a doubt good for the Big East; they need St. Johns to be relevant again.
Good for Seton Hall? That depends....is only good if we plan on doing the things we need to do to compete....which over the past 20+ years we have shown we are NOT willing to do this, including the "decision" made this off season to do nothing.
In that scenario, this is crushing news for the Hall, as St. John's will own any and every City and likely NJ kid they want (unless the kid wants to leave the area....which means he isnt coming to the Hall either)...which shuts down a major market for us.
Not to mention that once he gets players in, and they routinely crush us on the court....well, how good would it have been for Rutgers to have crushed us year after year in the BE? Not very good at all.
The future for Seton Hall basketball is not looking good at all...barring a miracle (and it would be a miracle) next season, and if the expected happens......the future is absoluetly abysmal. We could have a tough time with A-10 or MAAC teams very soon....
Sorry, but nothing, and I mean NOTHING that has transpired this off season gives me (and a whole lot of Seton Hall fans) anything to be positive about......
This post was edited on 4/20 12:21 PM by The Crows Nest
Good for Seton Hall? That depends....is only good if we plan on doing the things we need to do to compete....which over the past 20+ years we have shown we are NOT willing to do this, including the "decision" made this off season to do nothing.
In that scenario, this is crushing news for the Hall, as St. John's will own any and every City and likely NJ kid they want (unless the kid wants to leave the area....which means he isnt coming to the Hall either)...which shuts down a major market for us.
Not to mention that once he gets players in, and they routinely crush us on the court....well, how good would it have been for Rutgers to have crushed us year after year in the BE? Not very good at all.
The future for Seton Hall basketball is not looking good at all...barring a miracle (and it would be a miracle) next season, and if the expected happens......the future is absoluetly abysmal. We could have a tough time with A-10 or MAAC teams very soon....
Sorry, but nothing, and I mean NOTHING that has transpired this off season gives me (and a whole lot of Seton Hall fans) anything to be positive about......
This post was edited on 4/20 12:21 PM by The Crows Nest
Sorry, but I don't get the whole "complacent" thing. Compacent about what? Not making the post-season, having players arrested and suspended, below-average on-court perfromance, poor to mediocre recruiting over the past 15 years? Sounds more to me like university leadership that doesn't have a clue and doesn't even know what complacent means?
