Was a reaction by our players when Bentil hammered Desi across the face. Khadeen only turned and says what's that all about? Nobody jumped into any PC players face, they all ran to Desi. It says a lot about the maturity these players have.
Best thing that didn't happen last night....
- Thread starter Bluebeard
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Also liked how Desi reacted last night after a wicked dunk..just turns and runs back on defense like it just a normal shot.
I agree with the announcers that it didn't appear Bentil had the intent, but where he hit Desi it had to be called flagrant 2. Same thing with Delgado's foul. He tried to catch him as falling to the ground, but no attempt at the ball so had to be flagrant 1.
Agreed. They were all business in the moment, and all smiles and brotherhood on the sidelines/after the play. Exactly how it should be. I actually thought Bentil and some of our players were getting along really well. I saw him and Ish talking after a play, and it was definitely friendly.
I think there is a level of respect between PC and SHU, from coaches to players to fan bases. My second favorite program in the Big East.
Haven't seen much of CornyT around though.
Haven't seen much of CornyT around though.
Bentil was classy too...went right over to Desi after the play. I know there was a sportsmanship thread earlier in the week after the SJU game. Last night was a great example that good sportsmanship is not dead.
I was at the game so couldnt catch a replay. Do you think that should have been a flagrant 2? In full speed it was a very hard foul but thought the flagrant 1 would be called
I don't think the rules are great. But if you are gonna slap Delgado and Nzei (SJU game) with a flagrant 1, then what BB is definitely a step above. It was a dangerous play because Desi was airborn, but not overly nasty. I thought it looked worse watching it live in the arena.
Providence and Marquette are tied for my second favorite programs since they were just a shade behind SHU when it came to picking a school for me. Both are good schools and have a lot of pride (and money) in basketball without being jackasses about it (unlike some other Big East schools).
Butler, by far, has the nicest fans in the Big East. I went to Hinkle the first year they were in the Big East and it was such an enjoyable experience.
I don't think he intended on decking Desi, but that's what happened. It was textbook Flagrant 2 because he ended up clotheslining Desi without making any attempt at a basketball play. In terms of intent, it looked like Bentil was trying for a hard foul on Desi's shoulder and chest, but just went high and clobbered him.
Part of it was that I think the players knew Bentil was going for a hard foul and just happened to go a little high with his forearm. If the intent was different and it was a dirty play, I think the reaction would have been different. Not necessarily starting a brawl or anything (this team has been very composed this year in many situations), but a much more intense reaction than what we saw last night.
The game situation and time remaining also played a big factor. I think the core players are aware of things like that this year as opposed to years past.
I was sitting in section 18 row 2 and had a perfect view last night, but didn't realize he hit Desi in the face until I got home and watched the play. I thought he hit his arm, which he did, but also caught his face. Last night I said, if Angel's was a F-1, Bentil had to be an F2 based on taking him out in mid air and way Desi landed. Both fouls the players were very friendly and I really don't think there was intent on either player, but when you saw the smack across the face, it had to be a 2. Plus he's gone for the next game too for the F2, that hurts PC.
He is not necessarily gone for the next game. Only for fighting would he be suspended. The conference could suspend him if they thought the foul was really vicious, but it wasn't.
I thought Bentil was making a play for the ball because Desi had it high and Bentil was reaching across his body to get it. Everything happened very fast but it has to be a 2.
He was definitely making a play on the ball. If you watch the replay, you'll see Bentil's eyes focused on the basketball, not on hitting Desi. I thought a flagrant 1 would have been the appropriate call in that instance for the excessive contact. Officials often react to the fall (which was hard and awkward because Desi was elevating) rather than the actual foul.
My two cents, had to be a F2...while I don't think there was intent to injure, you have to be able to control yourself and where you foul somebody. The refs job in that situation is not analyze intent, but to abide by the rule, which by definition was a F2. A perfect analogy was given by Spanarkel when he said it looked like a grabbing of a facemask in football. That is a personal foul in football, and a F2 in basketball.
Intent is not part of the criteria for flagrant 1 or 2.
Flagrant 1 personal foul:
A flagrant 1 personal foul is a personal foul that is deemed excessive in nature and/or unnecessary, but is not based solely on the severity of the act. Examples include, but are not limited to:
Flagrant 2 personal foul:
A flagrant 2 personal foul is a personal foul that involves contact with an opponent that is not only excessive, but also severe or extreme while the ball is live.
Flagrant 1 personal foul:
A flagrant 1 personal foul is a personal foul that is deemed excessive in nature and/or unnecessary, but is not based solely on the severity of the act. Examples include, but are not limited to:
1. Causing excessive contact with an opponent;
2. Contact that is not a legitimate attempt to play the ball or player,
specifically designed to stop or keep the clock from starting;
3. Pushing or holding a player from behind to prevent a score;
4. Fouling a player clearly away from the ball who is not directly
involved with the play, specifically designed to stop or keep the clock
from starting; and
5. Contact with a player making a throw-in.
6. Illegal contact caused by swinging of an elbow which is deemed
excessive or unnecessary but does not rise to the level of a flagrant 2
personal foul (see Rule 4-18.7)
2. Contact that is not a legitimate attempt to play the ball or player,
specifically designed to stop or keep the clock from starting;
3. Pushing or holding a player from behind to prevent a score;
4. Fouling a player clearly away from the ball who is not directly
involved with the play, specifically designed to stop or keep the clock
from starting; and
5. Contact with a player making a throw-in.
6. Illegal contact caused by swinging of an elbow which is deemed
excessive or unnecessary but does not rise to the level of a flagrant 2
personal foul (see Rule 4-18.7)
Flagrant 2 personal foul:
A flagrant 2 personal foul is a personal foul that involves contact with an opponent that is not only excessive, but also severe or extreme while the ball is live.
From all the replays it looks like he clothes-lined him in "wrestling speak". Catch a player by the neck in the air, and you are asking for a flagrant 2. Intent does matter, unless you act reckless. It was reckless. I definitely wouldn't say it was mean-spirited. It's why you don't push players in the back. Good, hard, fouls are performed by pushing the body or hacking an arm to make the player miss. There wasn't even contact with the players body or arms except to hook his neck.
There's plenty of respect between the two teams. Aside from the two programs being historical rivals, remember that Willard and Cooley go back to the MAAC together.
When Providence did a European summer trip a year ago, they even came to SHU to practice before flying out of Newark.
When Providence did a European summer trip a year ago, they even came to SHU to practice before flying out of Newark.
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