Budget battle
- Thread starter Old_alum
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The system is clearly broken and our elected officials are so clueless its not even funny. They all really just want to keep their hands in our pockets. Obama IMO is a terrible leader and can't get these knuckleheads together. And each party is run by equally terrible leaders. America is going to hell in a handbasket.
Anyone see the special on 60 minutes last night on how many are taking advantage of the disability program through social security (the # of folks getting disability and the money has doubled in the last 6 years and many are on it illegally - go figure)? It is a good look into our country currently where folks would rather take advantage of the system and take a handout vs. trying to find work. One judge in Buffalo said that when more people find out about how easy it is to game the system half the people will be outraged and the other half will be filing for benefits.
Very sad state that we are in currently and I only see it getting worse unfortunately because our elected "so called" leaders cannot even go to the table to negotiate anything. If the American people had any balls they would vote out any incumbent. But folks will go to the polls and pull the D or R just like they've always done.
Anyone see the special on 60 minutes last night on how many are taking advantage of the disability program through social security (the # of folks getting disability and the money has doubled in the last 6 years and many are on it illegally - go figure)? It is a good look into our country currently where folks would rather take advantage of the system and take a handout vs. trying to find work. One judge in Buffalo said that when more people find out about how easy it is to game the system half the people will be outraged and the other half will be filing for benefits.
Very sad state that we are in currently and I only see it getting worse unfortunately because our elected "so called" leaders cannot even go to the table to negotiate anything. If the American people had any balls they would vote out any incumbent. But folks will go to the polls and pull the D or R just like they've always done.
This! This! This!
Yes, saw that 60 Minutes piece as well and to totally depress you more, the fraud that occurs with Medicare and Medicaid dwarfs the money being pissed away on disability. No one wants to spend the time to really understand it because their too consumed watching reality TV or they have just lost total faith in the politicians.
Regarding American's having balls, isn't this mess what really created the Tea Party? I think some people voted for those candidates because they were truly disgusted with the current system.
My father recently applied for SS disability after spending 6 months in the Intensive Care unit at RWJ 3 of those months in a comma. He now can not perform his job like he used to and the lasting effects of the surgery have changed my dad forever. All of his doctors (who he has gone to forever) went above and beyond for him but guess what, the US Gov denied him. Now, i watch my father struggle with normal tasks and see people absolutely rape the system. I have a cousin who is collection a NYC Pension, SS, SS disability, and working off the books. I can not be more furious seeing assholes like this get it but my dad suffer, and not able to pay many of his bills.
BTW one of his doctors told him he was instructed by SS to deny 90% of first time claims. Its just so upsetting to see someone like my father that really needs the SS disability and he is denied because of jackasses out their who really do not need it.
This post was edited on 10/7 12:28 PM by jcalz88
BTW one of his doctors told him he was instructed by SS to deny 90% of first time claims. Its just so upsetting to see someone like my father that really needs the SS disability and he is denied because of jackasses out their who really do not need it.
This post was edited on 10/7 12:28 PM by jcalz88
jcalz - so sorry to hear about your Dad. That is the problem. People who really need it should get it and unfortunately with so many gaming the system crap like this happens to your Dad.
Social Security does reject 90% of first time SSD claims. Usually to get benefits you must hire a attorney who specializes in the area. There are many factors considered in order to be successful in your claim. One of those factors is the age of the claimant. The younger the claimant is the more stringent the requirements. Think about it and you will see the logic of this. The closer you get to retirement age the shorter the period of SSD benefits therefore it is easier to prevail. And this has nothing to do with the Obama administration. It has been administered this way for many years.
TK
Ditto jcalz, I feel for your Dad. That's just awful and another example of how badly things are broken. People in real need are being denied. I don't want to pick on a profession, but where is the ABA in policing their own when such poor ethincs abound with companies like Binder and Binder.
I watched 60 minutes last night as well.
Honest question for discussion -
Do you think politicians in general have turned a blind eye to the abuse of systems like SS disability, or other welfare programs in fear of what the people who are abusing the system would turn to for money? Or do they just not care?
Not that I am ok with that at all... I think we should go after not only the recipients of fraudulent claims but we should go after the doctors who validate the fake claims incredibly hard as well... but I have often wondered why we don't go after them.
My biggest take away from the story was that I get why people would try to get free money. I even get why a lawyer would fight for someone even if they disagree with them (that is their job) but those lawyers getting a doctor, or as it implied last night a judge in their pocket is disgusting and we should start there if we want to decrease how often this occurs.
Answer to your question is easy. Politicians don't care in general. It's the rare one like the one in the 60 minutes story that has the balls to aim the flashlight on it.
The bottom line is people who scam the system; Recipients, lawyers, doctors, etc., all need to be to be held accountable. I disagree that it's a lawyers job to fight for the client even when he knows he's participating in something thats criminal.
Agree Merge, it's in the politicians' best interest to have a highly polarized electorate. I know people who would rather die than vote for the "other" party. As if these politicians really cared about the social issues that stir the passions of the common wing-nuts! Bloomberg has changed parties twice; Obama was anti-gay marriage until it wasn't politically expedient.
Until we, the people, start voting out incumbents, and letting them taste life off the gravy train, there will be no political reform. They have us right where they want us.
Until we, the people, start voting out incumbents, and letting them taste life off the gravy train, there will be no political reform. They have us right where they want us.
To clarify, I just meant that if I walk (limp?) into a lawyers office and tell them that I am disabled and I need them to fight for me. I would expect them to help me if I were able to receive the necessary requirements from a doctor.
Even if they didn't 100% believe that I was disabled, it is not their job is not to be a diagnostician.
No it's not but if they employ or send you to a physician that rubber stamps vs. doing a real diagnosis, it's still bullshit.
Maybe if we had penalties with real teeth that made people think twice about even trying this kind of stuff we would avoid a good chunk. But the legal community and their lobby wouldn't appreciate that much....
This post was edited on 10/8 10:32 AM by HALL85
Maybe if we had penalties with real teeth that made people think twice about even trying this kind of stuff we would avoid a good chunk. But the legal community and their lobby wouldn't appreciate that much....
This post was edited on 10/8 10:32 AM by HALL85
First of all the presumption being put forward here is that a large percentage of people are cheating and that is just not true. In fact it's a very small percentage (maybe 1% at best). I do not define cheating as a person exaggerating to some extent as that is just human nature and most all of us do it to some extent. Now as to the comment about lawyers representing the cheaters let me tell you that our job is to represent a client not to make evaluations if they are good guys or bad guys and no client when he comes into his lawyers office states flat out that "I am a lier, cheat and fraud". If it comes out as facts develop that a client is violating the law, the attorney will more often than not seek to be relieved of representation. But the court may not always allow this if the person can not find other representation or if it will unduly delay a case. As to the social security claims the SSA does not matter of factly rely on a medical report provided by the claiment or his represenative but has the person examined and evaluated by their own doctors and employment experts also. The idea that people are just routinely put on SSD that are not deserving is just not true. Yes there are some that get approved that probably should not just as there are some that get denied that deserve benefits but how is that different from anything else in life.
And just for the record that while I have occasionally represented people claiming SSD benefits that is not my primary practice. But as a civil defense atty I am always on the look out for fraud but it is no where near as widespread as some allege.
TK
This post was edited on 10/8 12:04 PM by SnakeTom
And just for the record that while I have occasionally represented people claiming SSD benefits that is not my primary practice. But as a civil defense atty I am always on the look out for fraud but it is no where near as widespread as some allege.
TK
This post was edited on 10/8 12:04 PM by SnakeTom
I actually looked up the statistics of disability claims per year
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/dibStat.html#f1
I know we have an aging population, and that may be contributing somewhat, but the number of applicants seems to be directly tied to the changes in GDP.
Claims jumped in years with a recession. I don't think that is a coincidence and I am guessing the amount of fraudulent claims is well above 1%.
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/dibStat.html#f1
I know we have an aging population, and that may be contributing somewhat, but the number of applicants seems to be directly tied to the changes in GDP.
Claims jumped in years with a recession. I don't think that is a coincidence and I am guessing the amount of fraudulent claims is well above 1%.
Tom, I have to disagree with that 1% at best number and if you saw the 60 Minutes piece its pretty obvious. I think Merge's stats bear that out as well. Maybe you and I are different, but if someone is exaggerating a condition to get benefits illegally that they wouldn't have if they are being honest, than that is cheating in my view. 60 Minutes probed a lawyer in Kentucky I believe that his physician was authorizing every single person that walked in the door. Yes, there are good and bad in any profession, but I'd like to see a bit more outrage by those in the profession for those that are acting criminally.
I did not see the show but I am in court most every day & know what happens. Remember while 60 minutes may be a good program it like all TV thrives on controversy. I can't tell you what any particular attorney in Kentucky does & maybe he is not legit but there are rogues in any profession. As to exaggeration it's a normal part of life not just in the court room but in every aspect. Have you never screamed out hoe a referee "robbed" our Pirates on an particular call. As an attorney one of things you must do when a client brings in a case is evaluate what is real & what is not real or of no consequence. But an attorney like in any other walk of life we for the most part do not pick and choose our clients. You represent those who hire you & sometimes they are people or corporations of high repute and sometimes they are not. And sometimes they have good cases and sometimes not, but they all deserve representation.
TK
TK
Sorry but comparing a referees call with criminal activity doesn't ring true for me. Lying to gain financial gain sounds pretty illegal to me. The 60 minutes report was pretty blatant and the lawyer himself came across as about as shady as you can with admitting to what he is doing. The data they shared was staggering.
Well all I can tell you is what my experience is & I've been handling disability & injury cases for about 35 years mostly from the defense side. And yes we do investigate potential fraud. In fact one firm I was with had a separate fraud unit. Where necessary we did surveillence but the incidents of provable fraud is alot less than you think. As to claimants exaggereating their complaints that is normal & if you are the one in pain it's hard for another to evaluate degree, but decisions are based on objective medical findings much more than subjective complaints. If the complaints are not in line with those findings the person's credibility becomes very suspect. Anyway that's all I can say on the topic without going into areas I can not ethically comment on such as specific cases.
TK
TK
Unexaggerated: my back hurts
Exaggerated: my back hurts, and I can no longer work
It's a fine line, IMO.
The system is seriously broken.
Exaggerated: my back hurts, and I can no longer work
It's a fine line, IMO.
The system is seriously broken.
Old_alum, I work for the DoD and I was furloughed last week and got recalled to work this week. The reason (which is ridiculous re: priests) is that once you are furloughed, you can not work or volunteer your time until the furlough has ended. DoD did not know immeadiately how to interpret the Military Pay Act law, which gives the Secretary of Defense leeway on furloughs. Once they got clarifcation the furlough was lifted for priests and a majority of DoD workers. The whole thing is a mess, and I agree with Donnie, once you root out the politicians who have been incumbents as well as the incompetent ones, then we may finally see progress. The thing that bothers me the most as a Veteran, is the 5 troops who died in comabt serving our country, their familes will not see the proper benefits or burials as they are entitled to until the shutdown is over, unless the Secretary of Defense or President steps to the plate and makes sure these families receive the proper benefits immeadiately.
I agree with your point about playing politics, but as Commander and Chief you put politics aside and take care of the troops who fight for our freedom and preserve our liberties. It's a no brainer, but we've seen what happened in Benghazi, the WWII memorial, but yesterday's immigration rally was a free for all on the mall.
A government of the people, by the people and for the people no longer exists. Politicians main priority is to get re-elected and benefit themselves. The government is supposed to serve the population not the other way around.
I agree with Donnie that we need to vote these jokers out but at this point the system is so powerful that it is hard to get a candidate in power that isn't part of the good old boys club or will just get swallowed up by them.
I agree with Donnie that we need to vote these jokers out but at this point the system is so powerful that it is hard to get a candidate in power that isn't part of the good old boys club or will just get swallowed up by them.
Thought this was funny via pollingreport.com
"If there were a place on your ballot that allowed you to vote to defeat and replace every single member of Congress, including your own representative, would you do this, or not?" Would - Would not - Unsure
10/7-9/13 60 35 5
7/17-21/13 57 39 4
True, but the real power of voting out the incumbent is the lack of stability. Being voted out at the end of your term, good 'ol boy or not, and replaced by a member of the other party, sends a clear message. With the internet and mass media being what they are, the jokers skipping votes, swayed by special interest, or voting in a manner not consistent with the promises made in the campaign, would have to seriously tighten up. Or get a REAL job.
On a slight tangent, I would like to see two Constitutional amendments:
1. Every legislator must take an oath that he has read every word in a Bill before he may vote on it.
2. Each Bill may include only issues on a single topic. There may be no pork in a Budget Bill (e.g. Lautenberg's widow gets $174,000 and an Ohio river dam has spending limit lifted); the CBO must certify that all amendments are homogeneous with the title of the Bill.
I will not mention term-limits.
1. Every legislator must take an oath that he has read every word in a Bill before he may vote on it.
2. Each Bill may include only issues on a single topic. There may be no pork in a Budget Bill (e.g. Lautenberg's widow gets $174,000 and an Ohio river dam has spending limit lifted); the CBO must certify that all amendments are homogeneous with the title of the Bill.
I will not mention term-limits.
Always fun when I get to cite the ACA twice in one night.... They need to enroll for 2014, and the government will pick up 75% of their policies which is the same benefit as they had been receiving.
(D) MEMBERS OF CONGRESS IN THE EXCHANGE-
(i) REQUIREMENT- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, after the effective date of this subtitle, the only health plans that the Federal Government may make available to Members of Congress and congressional staff with respect to their service as a Member of Congress or congressional staff shall be health plans that are--
(I) created under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act); or
(II) offered through an Exchange established under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act).
Merge - can you clarify if they are staying on the same Congressional plan? Or will they shut down that plan and the Congress will have to choose a separate plan? Thanks!
They will be losing their current plan and will need to sign up for the plans in the exchange.
http://www.opm.gov/retirement-services/publications-forms/benefits-administration-letters/2013/13-204attachment1.pdf
What
a terrible resolution to all of this. Actually no resolution at all, just
kicked the can down a very short road. Another commission? What terrible
leaders in Obama, Reid, and Boehner. What terrible high spending, high
debt, and high taxes. This should never have been about Obamacare (which
I don't like) but about all the other intrusive, terrible things the
federal government does. Uphold the Constitution, what a joke!
a terrible resolution to all of this. Actually no resolution at all, just
kicked the can down a very short road. Another commission? What terrible
leaders in Obama, Reid, and Boehner. What terrible high spending, high
debt, and high taxes. This should never have been about Obamacare (which
I don't like) but about all the other intrusive, terrible things the
federal government does. Uphold the Constitution, what a joke!
Might have gotten somewhere if the fight was about spending rather than the ACA... still probably unlikely, but they made a mistake trying to go against Obamacare.
Though I do think this may have been a strategical move by the republicans to try and discredit the tea-party.
