Carino on the game

[Section112]

Seton Hall basketball: Kadary Richmond triple-double not enough in controversial loss to Creighton

5 takeaways from the game of the year in the Big East

www.app.com

I know this was posted in the Articles thread but this deserves its own post.

Love the positive takes from Dre Davis and Al Dawes in this article despite the loss. That gives me a lot of hope.

 

[jack 1970]

Sha and team have right attitude.Let's move on to Providence.

 

[Piratz]

Tough, tough loss. Could've created some separation as Connecticut and Seton Hall would've had 1 loss, everyone else 3+. Plus notched another Q1 win. Ugh. Reminded me a lot of our epic games with Villanova, most of which we've lost heartbreakers. 🙄

But this is life in the Big East. There were two other 1-point games yesterday.

 

[sami]

But this is life in the Big East. There were two other 1-point games yesterday.

1-pt home losses against ranked teams. Gut punches all around with coulda woulda shoulda.

We’re on a tear and #2 is the limit, but you want that 4/5 slot at worst and SJU/Nova losing wasn’t bad.

Would it be so bad to end the year in the top cluster behind UConn, Marquette and Creighton?

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

1-pt home losses against ranked teams. Gut punches all around with coulda woulda shoulda.

We’re on a tear and #2 is the limit, but you want that 4/5 slot at worst and SJU/Nova losing wasn’t bad.

Would it be so bad to end the year in the top cluster behind UConn, Marquette and Creighton?

Something not right at Marquette. I wouldn't be shocked if they're in the cluster behind UConn and Creighton.

 

[sami]

Something not right at Marquette. I wouldn't be shocked if they're in the cluster behind UConn and Creighton.

We will know this week… would love to separate and lock into that 2/3 spot with Creighton.

 

[Piratz]

1-pt home losses against ranked teams. Gut punches all around with coulda woulda shoulda.

We’re on a tear and #2 is the limit, but you want that 4/5 slot at worst and SJU/Nova losing wasn’t bad.

Would it be so bad to end the year in the top cluster behind UConn, Marquette and Creighton?

Something not right at Marquette. I wouldn't be shocked if they're in the cluster behind UConn and Creighton.

Yeah I really don't know what's what anymore in the league. Marquette and Creighton are not what I thought they'd be at this stage. Seton Hall and St. John's are better than I thought. Villanova is an enigma. Xavier is dangerous with that offense.

We blew a HUGE chance to separate yesterday.

 

[mspaeth]

barring injuries we are in the Top 3!

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Yeah I really don't know what's what anymore in the league. Marquette and Creighton are not what I thought they'd be at this stage. Seton Hall and St. John's are better than I thought. Villanova is an enigma. Xavier is dangerous with that offense.

We blew a HUGE chance to separate yesterday.

I think it's pretty simple. Other than UConn and Creighton if Seton Hall brings the hustle, energy and plays within themselves, Seton Hall will find a way to win. Our only bad stretch in conference play consisted of a lot of our early season bad shots and not hustling back on defense. We picked up a digit in the loss column yesterday, but any fool can see we showed that we belong in the top. Now it's about bringing that same hustle, that same energy, and the same solid play the next 12 regular season games. We may pick up a loss here and there, but we're not going to fall out of the top of this conference.

 

[HALL85]

1-pt home losses against ranked teams. Gut punches all around with coulda woulda shoulda.

We’re on a tear and #2 is the limit, but you want that 4/5 slot at worst and SJU/Nova losing wasn’t bad.

Would it be so bad to end the year in the top cluster behind UConn, Marquette and Creighton?

If you had posted this four weeks ago, you would have been accused of over indulging in edibles. Sign me up for this when March rolls around.

 

[JTSHU]

Dropped 6 spots in net to 60. Grand canyon losses to seattle and drops 8 spots

 

[LeftCoastPirates]

Dropped 6 spots in net to 60. Grand canyon losses to seattle and drops 8 spots

It sucks but a big part of the measure of the NET is weighted on home vs away.

Grand Canyon lost on the road, we lost at home.

We might have remained neutral in our NET rank if we had lost on the road to a team in the top 20.

 

[shupat08]

Dropped 6 spots in net to 60. Grand canyon losses to seattle and drops 8 spots

But it was a super efficient road loss to the well known perennial powerhouse U of Seattle!

 

[SHUisNJsTeam]

Yeah I really don't know what's what anymore in the league. Marquette and Creighton are not what I thought they'd be at this stage. Seton Hall and St. John's are better than I thought. Villanova is an enigma. Xavier is dangerous with that offense.

We blew a HUGE chance to separate yesterday.

More like the refs blew it for us. Sorry, still pissed about this loss.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

More like the refs blew it for us. Sorry, still pissed about this loss.

Refs didn't miss the 2nd free throw. It's not like the refs made a call where we didn't control the outcome. For as bad as that call was we still controlled the outcome. It just felt like Richmond was like 20 for 20 executing down the stretch in tight games going into yesterday. He's our dude. I'll ride with him in that situation 100 out of 100 times.

 

[Piratz]

Our best player created a good look that rimmed out. It would’ve put us up 6 with 1:40ish to play in the 3OT. It don’t happen.

Then Ashworth and Alexander hit monster 3’s. What can you do?

The refs screwed us on the 5-second call that likely ends the game in regulation, no question. They made a bad call in the 2OT too that killed but we had a chance to make up for it with FT’s and we missed. 🤷

Multiple times the team came back late when it looked like we were cooked. Should’ve had that win and I hope it doesn’t come back to bite us, but you gotta love the fight.

 

[JTSHU]

It sucks but a big part of the measure of the NET is weighted on home vs away.

Grand Canyon lost on the road, we lost at home.

We might have remained neutral in our NET rank if we had lost on the road to a team in the top 20.

But its seattle. Much much worse loss

 

[Seton75]

If a home win away against nobody trumps a triple ot loss at home to #18, they need to have the formula written by a person who has watched a basketball game.

 

[TheHall87]

Dropped 6 spots in net to 60. Grand canyon losses to seattle and drops 8 spots

We don't know what the actual number that creates the ranking. Let's say we lost 1 point in our NET value. Based on where we were and the teams around us, that equaled a six position drop. Maybe Grand Canyon lost three points but that was more separation in the area they were thus the drop was "only" eight spots.

Here's a more tangible example: In the AP poll we were 64 points behind San Diego State the team ahead of us. Obviously to move past them, we have to make up those 64 points somehow. Iowa State is four points ahead of Texas Tech. All Texas Tech has to do is gain five points on Iowa State to move past them.

In that scenario, if we gain 20 points and SD State loses 20 points, we're still 24 points behind. If Texas Tech gains five points and Iowa State loses five points, Texas Tech ahead of Iowa State.

 

[TheHall87]

If a home win away against nobody trumps a triple ot loss at home to #18, they need to have the formula written by a person who has watched a basketball game.

The thing is, that ranking is an accumulation of all games, not just yesterday's game. As I noted above the position rank means nothing without knowing the value of how the rankings are actually compiled.

I once worked for an entity that ranked sales. When I started, we were not ranking actual sales, we were using a survey that worked similar to the AP and coaches polls -- each spot had an assigned point value, let's say 25 to one) and the vendors were weighted according to size. The larger the vendor, the more weight they carried.

That ranking system doesn't take into account that No. 1 might have sold 500 units and No. 2 sold 75, the point values were 25 and 24.

Eventually, we partnered with a company that was able to get actual point-of-sale data from those vendors. Suddenly, the data reflected that the top seller might move 250,000 units in a week and No. 2 sold 75K. whereas lower on the sales chart the differences in position might have 50 or 100 units. You could gain 1,000 units and jump from 150 to 120 -- but that would harder to do further up the chart where the differences in rankings could be several thousand units per position.