Carino on the Hall
- Thread starter Halldan1
- Start date
Gerald Greene was in the house. Good to see. Seemed like no one knew what happened to him.
With the right coach, this program could have tons of juice and excitement. Saturdays game proves that big energized crowds are possible. Open up the vaults and bring in a real star to run our program. Money talks and with the right compensation package, we could land a true winner. It may initially cost us millions, yet the potential could make us millions. If we were a consistent top 25 team, our attendance would skyrocket. On our present track, we will continue to lose fan base and more important is the continued loss of present and future income. You need to spend millions with a keen eye on and the future potential of making many millions more.
With the resources now directed to the program, the significant upgrades that have been made, and the conference realignment, this program is completely different than when Kevin Willard took over in 2010.
Our current team can still do some good things, so let's wait to see how it shakes out. If they finish with a losing record and miss the NCAA's, Willard should be on notice again next season. Too many disappointing, underachieving seasons in 7 years if that occurs.
Our current team can still do some good things, so let's wait to see how it shakes out. If they finish with a losing record and miss the NCAA's, Willard should be on notice again next season. Too many disappointing, underachieving seasons in 7 years if that occurs.
Last edited:
The vaults can only open with more donors or the current donors giving more. If you want to make it happen you have to put your money where your mouth is. An extra $500 or even $1,000 isn't going to do it either. A lot of people are going to have to contribute 5 figures before the decimal point. It's always easier to spend someone else's money. To be fair what we all witnessed yesterday is what Willard has built up in his time here. Had we not won the big east tourney I doubt they would have opened the top.
I agree about the correlation from last year to yesterday. But what's killing us is how messy this year's team has been. It completely disrupted the momentum and excitement of the offseason. The lack of progression is the problem with the Willard Era 7 seasons in. It's been a staple of his tenure. We tease everyone, then crumble, and end up having more disappointing seasons than good ones. There's no building.
7-11
8-10 (4-1 start and ranked; collapse really set a tone for him here)
3-15
6-12 (4 losses by 1-point)
6-12 (3-1 start and ranked)
12-6
6-8
This season is no different and that's why we get 4,000 against Creighton. It's too up and down and usually ends down, which makes last year's 12-2 run to the BET title and NCAA berth look like a fluke.
I am hoping to rally and somehow get a bid. Then we have building going on in addition to adding Cale and perhaps Duval to the '14 Seniors. I would like Willard to succeed here, but if that rally doesn't happen he needs to be held accountable going into next season.
7-11
8-10 (4-1 start and ranked; collapse really set a tone for him here)
3-15
6-12 (4 losses by 1-point)
6-12 (3-1 start and ranked)
12-6
6-8
This season is no different and that's why we get 4,000 against Creighton. It's too up and down and usually ends down, which makes last year's 12-2 run to the BET title and NCAA berth look like a fluke.
I am hoping to rally and somehow get a bid. Then we have building going on in addition to adding Cale and perhaps Duval to the '14 Seniors. I would like Willard to succeed here, but if that rally doesn't happen he needs to be held accountable going into next season.
Last edited:
This particular team has the players to get it done. Not a perfect team, but how often does a team have three junior 1,000 point scorers (I believe Desi is very close)?
We would all like more PG and F depth but the team, as currently constituted, has the talent to make the tournament.
At some point, you have to look at the guy running the show.
We would all like more PG and F depth but the team, as currently constituted, has the talent to make the tournament.
At some point, you have to look at the guy running the show.
+1
I did not think we'd be as good as last year's 12-6 team with the losses we had in Whitehead and Gordon paired with Willard's lack of preparation to replace them. I thought this team was 10-8-ish and Bubble strong (I was buying the Jevon Thomas stuff and Veer Singh improvement, lol).
We are underachieving. We'll see how it ends up. Lots of games left and still a chance.
This was the subject (in less explicit terms) of my question at the Q&A at the Booster Club dinner yesterday afternoon. We were served a very brightly polished turd to the effect that the "inconsistency" we observe is an artifact of the 50-50 circumstances of about 3 games per season. Why 3? If we suppose a 9-9 season, and win the 50-50 three times, we are 12-6, if not we are 6-12. Unhuh...?...?... So, it is all about luck?
If 50-50 are the only odds we can get, then this whole deal is pointless.
Really, BP? That's funny, obnoxious, absurd, and pathetic all rolled into one.
Such weak leadership to connect our results to "luck".
Such weak leadership to connect our results to "luck".
To be really, really fair it was mostly the entire month of February through that game. So the full 6 week span. He had to earn the right to get to that game and he had to have a decent seed to get there.
I think it's too early to say the program is not progressing. Many people here may not want to hear it, but I think the majority of outsiders would say a Big East championship and NCAA 6 seed followed up by a team on the bubble is progress for this program. This season has been frustrating, but not many programs are built to sustain the loss of a player like Whitehead. He made every single player on the team better, especially Carrington and Sanogo. I'll start really questioning Willard if he doesn't learn from this over the offseason. He MUST bring in a grad transfer big man. Even someone like Gettys at RU would help relieve Delgado and Ish.
I trust others who were there might comment. The response was entertaining, not fraught with tension, however, one can quietly conclude, as the sangria settled in more deeply, that there is not much of a there, there.
You made a crucial observation above, and you have been on it for years, and, for the nonce, it is something that I hold onto: are we learning from our mistakes and are we building, year over year?
If it is just luck, then ugotz.
This was on-the-job training for Willard. He's still not there yet on recruiting either. No one will ever admit that publicly and when I initially made that point a couple of season's back some of KW's ardent supporters here were beyond furious, of course.
There was a change last year that coincided with Whitehead's emergence. But let's remember KW did bench him twice which, I believe, helped his quick maturation (WSU, Creighton games). KW coached great last year and I thought the investment SHU made to him for the previous 5 years was paying off.
This year not so much, but the season is not over. Rally this team to 10-8 or 9-9 from 3-6 and that's a job well done again, IMO. Then he really needs a strong class in addition to Cale. We shall see.
Something tells me they won't point to luck if we finish strong, lmaooo.
There was a change last year that coincided with Whitehead's emergence. But let's remember KW did bench him twice which, I believe, helped his quick maturation (WSU, Creighton games). KW coached great last year and I thought the investment SHU made to him for the previous 5 years was paying off.
This year not so much, but the season is not over. Rally this team to 10-8 or 9-9 from 3-6 and that's a job well done again, IMO. Then he really needs a strong class in addition to Cale. We shall see.
Something tells me they won't point to luck if we finish strong, lmaooo.
They wanted a coach on the rise. That means not there yet.
And let's think back to 2010. This was not an appealing job. The cleaner lines that now exist did not then, from structure to resources to conference. We didn't even have an AD (Hobbs handled) and the University President (Msr. Sheeran) was retiring.
And the roster was littered with players that marched to the beat of their own drums and had many discipline issues. Heck, Willard had to throw two of them off the team in the first year (Lawrence, Jackson).
How was Willard a coach on the rise? The AD took the advice of Pitino after he felt there would not be any driving the wrong way on campus, having players punch others in the balls and not fighting with and trying to undermine his boss. To ensure the latter he then hired Willard's old boss as AD.
Hobbs, the prudent attorney making sure to protect his client have he was gone.
Hobbs, the prudent attorney making sure to protect his client have he was gone.
Oh man that response from that dinner is so seton hall. Someone needs to call them out on the spot.
Piratz
You 're right on what you say but there were several other factors at play at that time and included:
1. The old BE was in turmoil and the future of the basketball only schools was an unknown;
2. There was not only an AD in Quinlan who was on the way out and a president leaving but there was no one to define what SH's commitment to athletics was;
3. SH's reputation among the top AAU and HS programs was in the toilet and BG had offended every important local sports media venue and personality ; and
4. SH was widely viewed as one of the most difficult sells in D-1 basketball and the pool of candidates was not a list of who' s who but a pool of candidates that could be described as who the hell is he.
In that environment the chance to find a gem was slim at best.
No it's not, that's like moral hazard, a real disappointment from 12-6 with 4 returning starters.
Agree with you and Piratz on your analysis. Compared to where the University as a whole and the basketball program was then to where it is now is night and day.
That being said, where do we go from here? Last season was memorable. This season is on the bubble with opportunities still in front of us, to be expected w/o IW and Gordon. Next season is key with both on court results and off court recruiting.
Imho, Willard like most coaches knows what he's doing when he has players. We all know there are holes this year. The team plays hard and seems to have the right attitude (KC saying season is a failure if we don't make the NCAAs). The recruiting has picked up (2014 plus Powell & Cale and hopefully Brodie, struck out in 2015) but needs to be better. SHU is not an easy sell but KW and the staff have to find a way to get it done on the recruiting trail.
This year is unfortunately close to being over.
Next season, to me, is make or break for Willard. Can't have the senior class we are going to have and not compete for the top of the league.
We shall see.... Lots of work to be done
Very rational post radecicco, SHU has made progress on a number of fronts and even the most critical should at least agree a little.
Nothing wrong with striving for more and at this point it is results on the court. Gotta go 3-1, if not it's going to get ugly.
I don't think this team is any better than a 9-9, maybe 10-8 team in the BE. We flame out and pull a 7-11 I may just join the pitchfork group, let's see what happens.
Nothing wrong with striving for more and at this point it is results on the court. Gotta go 3-1, if not it's going to get ugly.
I don't think this team is any better than a 9-9, maybe 10-8 team in the BE. We flame out and pull a 7-11 I may just join the pitchfork group, let's see what happens.
It's time to get a coach who knows what he is doing and can get us the players to deliver. It's not an either/or situation. Isn't it time that Seton Hall steps to the top of the BE top four and gets an NCAA invite every year. Aren't all these excuses just trying?
Makes sense Muggsy, when you see the building packed like it was yesterday you realize whats possible.
I am not trying to be a wise ass and I know that it is Lyons job to hire a coach but do you have anyone in mind ?
I am not trying to be a wise ass and I know that it is Lyons job to hire a coach but do you have anyone in mind ?
I didn't expect us to be as good as last year in BE even with the 4 starters back because none of them were Whitehead and the coach was scrambling for guards in the spring.
You could say that's a disappointment to begin with I guess, lol.
My expectation was NCAA. I believe he'll get there with some combo of min. 10
BE wins between now and BET.
Yes NCAA every year. However people need to put their money where their mouth is. People have to do their part. If the right guy is waiting for the job and they can get him immediately that would be ideal but it's not magically going to happen. People have to donate. The conversation is great and can go on all day, but it's all talk. Old saying is money talks BS walks. Right now this all BS. You need a large group of people to donate $25,000 plus each to the school. If you could get some people to donate $50,000 or $100,000 it will be that much easier. If it's that much of priority to people they will find a way to make it happen. Otherwise it's all talk, no action. I like coaches that are huge on defense. I liked PJ. I liked Orr. I like Willard. Yesterday wasn't a good display of defense but overall the last 2.5 years we've seen some good defense. I believe if there's enough money brought to the table I'm sure the school will listen to those who are unhappy with the staff. Anyone who thinks this school is paying for 2 coaches on their with everything they got going on starting a medical school etc, is out of their mind. So it has to be done through donations.
Last edited:
My expectation was NCAA's as well but better than 9-9 in conference.
I still think Seton Hall makes the NCAA's at 9-9 which means the season is a success but also still a disappointment.
PMB,
I wouldn't get too hung up on specific alternatives to KW just yet.
I'm sure many of us have ideas and names (not that we think matters as much as Lyons and a handful of key alums).
It's just that it seems premature and inappropriate to do this while we still have games to play.
If the season ends the way we are all fearing it will end, you will have no shortage of specific names cropping up in the offseason.
Less for pulling the trigger this summer but more for following for a change in summer 2018.
I wouldn't get too hung up on specific alternatives to KW just yet.
I'm sure many of us have ideas and names (not that we think matters as much as Lyons and a handful of key alums).
It's just that it seems premature and inappropriate to do this while we still have games to play.
If the season ends the way we are all fearing it will end, you will have no shortage of specific names cropping up in the offseason.
Less for pulling the trigger this summer but more for following for a change in summer 2018.
Open the check book and think outside the box. A great coach could cost us a ton of money. However we could easily make that up as our program catches fire. Two quick possibilities are the recently fired NC State coach, or Steve Lavin.
Yea, Mark Gottfried would be a nice fit here. Did anyone see the clip Saturday of his locker room speech before the ND game? Classic NASCAR / SEC FOOTBALL style. "Guys when you're down, when that big ole truck rolls on top of you, Bite That Tire! You hear me? "Now let's go bite that tire"!!
That's what we need around here. Some serious tire bitin',dad gummit!
Gottfried getting fired was a joke on so many levels. Does NC St think they are Duke or NC? I'd kill for what Gottfried did in his tenure.
With the additions of a medical school and a new president on the agenda it's going to take you and the others who want to make a coaching to open up your own wallets. Donate 5 or 6 figures. That's what it's going to take
Last edited:
SHUMA04,
You make a lot of sense and I totally agree about waiting till next year due to his Seniors, maybe recruiting, (I love what SHA is doing) but if we totally flame out I can see why people here will go nuts.
FYI, I was in complete rage mode yesterday so if I was a bit disrespectful to you or Piratefan2009 I apologize. I was at the game and had a ton of Nova fans around me telling me to sit the F down and almost got into a few scuffles, went to the board and vented.
Now I won't apologize to Solo, the "finger food/Lyons" comment was typical wise ass Solo..... Only kidding, I actually laughed, not bad Solo, not bad, apologies.
Not to bore anyone but I am a fan that went though the PJ years and I may be influenced by the fact that things turned out great after years of PJ pounding and people were always saying " just get a new coach ". I just dont think it's that easy to assume that is an automatic solution but totally understand that that is an option that has worked for many programs multiple times.
IMHO we are not awful enough to get rid of Willard and if we can squeeze out 9-9 it really won't be that bad, I just don't think we are much better. The OOC results weren't awful, that were actually pretty good. If we do a flame out and get crushed ( very possible ) anything is on the table.
I am nobody that accepts mediocre results but if we can get to the NCAA's this wont be a bad season.
Again, I am not a Willard or Lyons defender, never met them, don't know them and don't care if I do. Just trying to figure out what's best for the Hall.
Wow, how boring was that.
Go Pirates !!
You make a lot of sense and I totally agree about waiting till next year due to his Seniors, maybe recruiting, (I love what SHA is doing) but if we totally flame out I can see why people here will go nuts.
FYI, I was in complete rage mode yesterday so if I was a bit disrespectful to you or Piratefan2009 I apologize. I was at the game and had a ton of Nova fans around me telling me to sit the F down and almost got into a few scuffles, went to the board and vented.
Now I won't apologize to Solo, the "finger food/Lyons" comment was typical wise ass Solo..... Only kidding, I actually laughed, not bad Solo, not bad, apologies.
Not to bore anyone but I am a fan that went though the PJ years and I may be influenced by the fact that things turned out great after years of PJ pounding and people were always saying " just get a new coach ". I just dont think it's that easy to assume that is an automatic solution but totally understand that that is an option that has worked for many programs multiple times.
IMHO we are not awful enough to get rid of Willard and if we can squeeze out 9-9 it really won't be that bad, I just don't think we are much better. The OOC results weren't awful, that were actually pretty good. If we do a flame out and get crushed ( very possible ) anything is on the table.
I am nobody that accepts mediocre results but if we can get to the NCAA's this wont be a bad season.
Again, I am not a Willard or Lyons defender, never met them, don't know them and don't care if I do. Just trying to figure out what's best for the Hall.
Wow, how boring was that.
Go Pirates !!
