COY to date

[Halldan1]

Big East

1. Wright/Nova - Sure he has the best talent but he deserves props for being undefeated. Can't beat a team by 30 and have that coach ahead of him.

2. Mack/Xavier - A hair behind the leader (yes that's a play on words)

3. McDermott/Creighton - Now in play

4. Cooley/Providence - In play as well

 

[mjs428]

1. McDermott over Holtmann?

Last I checked Butler would be in the tourney and Creighton would be in the NiT

 

[hbkmyr]

Butler was expected to be good with many picking them as a top 4 team in conference. They're 1-3. Creighton was expected to be bad with many picking them as a bottom 3 team in conference. They're 3-1.

Granted, Butler's losses have come to top teams, but to date, McDermott has done a better job.

 

[Halldan1]

Butler a Big East preseason favorite is 1-3 in league play. Creighton a preseason bottom feeder is 3-1. That dictates my choice of McDermott being third at this time over Holtmann who IMO isn't in my top 4.

 

[mjs428]

Has Creighton beat 1 NCAA sure fire team?

Butler lost to Nova, Prov, & @X

 

[Vegas pj]

I think we all know who took himself out of the running and assisted McDermott to be in the running
for BE COY. I shall not speak his name.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Butler a Big East preseason favorite is 1-3 in league play. Creighton a preseason bottom feeder is 3-1. That dictates my choice of McDermott being third at this time over Holtmann who IMO isn't in my top 4.

Why do we punish a coach for having a talented team that people think was going to be good preseason?

 

[ncaaball2]

1. Wright
2. Cooley
3. Mack
4. Wojo
5. Holtman
6. McBuckets

All 6 having good years as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Fzacsattac]

You mean no Willard on the list!

 

[HALL85]

You mean no Willard on the list!

Weaving his way to the bottom of the list...

 

[Halldan1]

UOTE="SHUHoopsFan, post: 165336, member: 734"]Why do we

Why do we punish a coach for having a talented team that people think was going to be good preseason?

Simple, if you don't perform to that expected level you don't deserve consideration for the award.

Conversely, similar expectations were heaped on Wright in the preseason and to date he has exceeded them so in his case I have the Nova coach as the leaders for COY at this point.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Dan my point is Jay Wright consistently gets talent. His teams consistently play well. He wins on the recruiting trail. So his expectations will always be higher. Winning on the recruiting trail makes it difficult to exceed the higher expectations. In a sense the guy is punished because he does his job better than the other coaches do on the recruiting trail, which is one of the most important parts of the job.

 

[sportsfantatic44]

Would still put Cooley at the top. They are still ranked in the top 15 and believe they were picked 5th or 6th in the preseason for the Big East. Tonight will be a good test for them at Creighton.

 

[Save Continental]

In a sense the guy is punished because he does his job better than the other coaches do on the recruiting trail, which is one of the most important parts of the job.

Just wondering, who is actually punishing Wright? Dan put himat 1 and he has won back to back BE COY's, I believe. So no one who matters punished him at all.

 

[hallgrad80]

The coaches who get the top talent, and Wright is one of them, does not automatically translate into success and coaching the top players is never easy and I would still put Wright as the COY because he appears to be in control of his locker room, gets the players to buy into what he expects them to do and wins, year after year and this year is no exception.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Just wondering, who is actually punishing Wright? Dan put himat 1 and he has won back to back BE COY's, I believe. So no one who matters punished him at all.

I was using Wright as an example of a coach with talent. McDermott at 3 I think is high because he doesn't have highly rated talent, but he's got some good basketball players. And he's 3-1 with what is considered an average roster at best, but the wins are against Seton Hall, a bad Georgetown team no wins to brag about (3-1, with 2 wins over Depaul and 1 win over SJU), and SJU. So to give coaches with what is viewed as a mediocre team accolades for doing decent is rewarding the teams that didn't do as good bringing in talent. I think giving the nod to McDermott over Holtmann because McDermott supposedly has less talent is a bad way to look at it. If Creighton played the schedule Butler has to date, McDermott wouldn't even be part of the equation.

 

[ncaaball2]

I disagree that in these a awards a coach should be punished for having talent.

In 2014 if you looked at nova's players in comparison to their recruiting ratings, they were huge over achievers. Guys like james bell and darrun hilliard were not highly rated recruits. But the coach did a great job developing them into all conferemce players.

Additionally, if a guy recruits well, that is part of coaching too.

I never understood why coach of the year awards are sometimes viewed as biggest overachiever awards. Let's say seton hall rights the ship and willard is back next year. And seton hall has a great season next year and lands a 3 seed or something. Would kevin willard be a candidate for coach of the year, or would he be disqualified because his junior class was real talented? I would think he should be a candidate for recruiting the kids, developing them over the years, and turning out results.

 

[SOBO1]

COY awards are a joke. The fact that Coach K hasn't won a ACC coach of the year award in 15 years is mind boggling to me. Guy is arguably the greatest coach of all time but he can't even win COY honors in his own conference.

Comments like "sure he has the best talent but..." irritate me. Acquiring talent is one of the biggest keys to coaching.

 

[Pirate64]

Mc D - fast rebuilding job.

 

[HALL85]

Mc D - fast rebuilding job.

Anyone who criticized McDermott that his success was only due to his son, should rethink that position. That guy knows coaching and can teach it.

 

[Jerry1992]

Williard was top 3 a week ago. How the mighty have fallen.

 

[ncaaball2]

To those who think that coaches should be punished for having talent on their team. This link is josh hart's recruiting profile. Borderline top 100 player with offers from Mike rice and pen state. By yr three he's looking like an all American. Player development is important too.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/142266/josh-hart

 

[Halldan1]

Absolutely love Hart. Not the most important player on the team IMO but maybe the best.

Like I posted last week Hart is rated by Kempom as the best player in the league.

We all know he's not better than Dunn but he is in the same class when the discussion is just college BB and not NBA potential.

 

[mjs428]

1. I was wrong about him. Still don't think it's fair to put him in the same category as Dunn.

2. Having a really good year but imo he's a 2nd team all BE player.

3. POY- Dunn & Arch. Similar to last yr. Hilliard was their best player but Arch got the nod. Also, Ochefu means more to Nova than Hart, IMO.

4. Players I'd take over Hart. Dunn, Bentil, Arch, Ochefu, Whitehead, Watson, Blueitt, Smith-Rivera, Jones, Dunham. You could make an argument for players like Carrington, Garrett Jr.

 

[mjs428]

1. Wright
2. Mack

3. Willard

 

[Halldan1]

1. Wright
2. Mack

3. Willard

Hold off for now.

We'll do this Monday as we always do with its own thread.