Dem Debates

[HALL85]

Observations:
Castro: came prepared, had specific recommendations and challenged others
O’Rourke: No substance; flailing
Delaney: thought he was most logical and grounded candidate
Gabbard: Disappointing; yes, we know you served in the military.
Booker: We know he’s an empty suit, and yes, we know you own a house in Newark (even though you really don’t live there).
Inslee: goal was to attack Trump.
Warren: “all corporations are evil” smh
DiBlasio: positioned himself as the far left candidate
Ryan: spoke to the Trump voter-working American.
Klobuchar: Meh....nothing noteworthy.

 

[Merge]

From my view, the only standouts were Castro who did the most to elevate himself into a higher tier and Beto who probably did the most to get knocked down a tier. Warren was the best by a fair margin in my opinion but she went in as the favorite so not sure how much that will help her.

 

[HALL85]

From my view, the only standouts were Castro who did the most to elevate himself into a higher tier and Beto who probably did the most to get knocked down a tier. Warren was the best by a fair margin in my opinion but she went in as the favorite so not sure how much that will help her.

In terms of resonating with her base and showing passion, agree on Warren. She’s positioning as a better option than Bernie and I think she will be successful for that demo of the party.

The “all corporations are evil”, is silly, but this is politics and she’s defining her lane.

 

[Belluno]

At least I now know why Beto never made any sense to me

 

[HALL85]

Day 2:
- Harris and Buttigieg where the clear winner us. Harris brought the passion and attacked Biden. Buttigieg was measured and shared.
- Biden and Bernie showed their age. Bernie has gone further left and going with a revolution. Biden was knocked down several times when attacked.
- Swalwell with the dopiest lineabout passing the torch. Biden missed a great opportunity to tell him that he needed to earn the torch.
- Gillibrand did a great job rehearsing her five speeches, but unfortunately they had nothing to do with the questions that were asked.
- Hickenlooper and Bennett....smoking too much weed.
- Williamson: For somebody that had 0% in the polls, a lot of people are talking about her. Mission accomplished.
- Yang: Points for no tie, but how funny they ask the Chinese guy about China?

 

[cernjSHU]

Day 2:
- Harris and Buttigieg where the clear winner us. Harris brought the passion and attacked Biden. Buttigieg was measured and shared.
- Biden and Bernie showed their age. Ernie has gone further left and going with a revolution. Biden was knocked down several times when attacked.
- Swalwell with the dopiest lineabout passing the torch. Biden missed a great opportunity to tell him that he needed to earn the torch.
- Gillibrand did a great job rehearsing her five speeches, but unfortunately they had nothing to do with the questions that were asked.
- Hickenlooper and Bennett....smoking too much weed.
- Williamson: For somebody that had 0% in the polls, a lot of people are talking about her. Mission accomplished.
- Yang: Points for no tie, but how funny they ask the Chinese guy about China?

I agree with your assessment. But, at this point, it is way too early and the general public doesn't really care about the debates at this point as long as you don't crap the bed. Biden had some good moments but Harris attacked his weakness. Biden needs to be better with an answer. But, I still don't think this affects his standings with the public. Mayor Pete has been impressive since day one. His ability to use religion which is always a Republican stronghold and turn it against them and show the hypocrisy is something unique to Pete. I think he needs to be governor or a Senator first. But he is the future of the party in my opinion.

 

[Pirata]

the debates have brought the fundamental question of socialism as an issue.

 

[HALL85]

I agree with your assessment. But, at this point, it is way too early and the general public doesn't really care about the debates at this point as long as you don't crap the bed. Biden had some good moments but Harris attacked his weakness. Biden needs to be better with an answer. But, I still don't think this affects his standings with the public. Mayor Pete has been impressive since day one. His ability to use religion which is always a Republican stronghold and turn it against them and show the hypocrisy is something unique to Pete. I think he needs to be governor or a Senator first. But he is the future of the party in my opinion.

At this point with so many candidates, it's about finding your lane and you can see candidates jockeying for position. (Bernie, for instance, has put all his chips on the table for the radical segment which DiBlasio tried to hijack). He probably knows he has no shot, but should have a coalition that could have some juice and disrupt the convention.

Biden is riding the "I am the only one that can beat Trump" and the head-to-head poll numbers. I think most Dems probably feel that way now, but if one of the other candidates shows something and their name recognition improves, I just don't see Biden holding up to the attacks. (Kind of like when Obama overtook Hillary).

 

[afghan whigs]

So now taxpayers not only have to pay off everyone's college loans, we gotta pay for illegal's health care. Yeah no thanks.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

So now taxpayers not only have to pay off everyone's college loans, we gotta pay for illegal's health care. Yeah no thanks.

I keep hearing people on the news talking about winners and losers of the debates. Because of this I only saw losers and bigger losers. Moderates are dying for a candidate and if they get one they can beat Trump. But this is a clinic on what not to do. These politicians are fearful of the far left crazies. They probably make up less than 5% of the voting population but are the loudest by a lot.

 

[Hall-line-forever]

And let’s have a look at Bernie flying first class to the debate. Steak tartar there, you old commie scum??

 

[Pirata]

Emotional turbulence?

Economic racism?

Environmental racism?

Those certainly are interesting topics to discuss in a presidential debate.

Go Dems!

 

[HALL85]

I don’t understand how reparations, college tuition forgiveness, Medicare for all and free healthcare for illegal immigrants is a strategy that’s going to beat Trump. How does that resonate with working Americans in swing states?

The primaries are going to be fascinating. I actually thought Delaney and Ryan made the most sense but the CNN filter saw it differently.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

I don’t understand how reparations, college tuition forgiveness, Medicare for all and free healthcare for illegal immigrants is a strategy that’s going to beat Trump. How does that resonate with working Americans in swing states?

The primaries are going to be fascinating. I actually thought Delaney and Ryan made the most sense but the CNN filter saw it differently.

I think Delaney is the best candidate they have. The more I hear from him, the more I consider voting for him. Biggest surprise for me was Williamson holding her own. I thought going into last night she would get blown away and it would be the last time we see her.

 

[HALL85]

I think Delaney is the best candidate they have. The more I hear from him, the more I consider voting for him. Biggest surprise for me was Williamson holding her own. I thought going into last night she would get blown away and it would be the last time we see her.

Williamson’s entertainment value was on display last night. I have to think the other candidates are trying to figure her out and how to respond to her positions if she stays in.

IMO, Delaney has a far better chance of beating Trump than Warren or Sanders. His only shot is to have a surprise showing in Iowa combined with a Biden dive.

 

[Pirata]

I think Delaney is the best candidate they have. The more I hear from him, the more I consider voting for him. Biggest surprise for me was Williamson holding her own. I thought going into last night she would get blown away and it would be the last time we see her.

Delaney got my attention when he articulated his views on Medicare for all. I have long been aware of the financial implication for providers if they have to operate from Medicare rates. As he said, many will fold. You can imagine what that will do to wait times.

Williamson is total flake. I used to like her inspiration quotes. Can you possibly imagine her going up against Putin or Kim. Would she have them smoke a hukka, burn some incense, and play soothing ocean sounds at the meeting?

 

[Pirata]

Delaney has a far better chance of beating Trump than Warren or Sanders.

At the moment Delaney seems like the most reasonable candidate. However, I am not sure he will sell. People vote for what they want to hear or want to believe, not necessarily what makes sense or what is truth.

Remember McCain vs Obama. McCain was more qualified by a longshot but Obama was a better sell.

 

[HALL85]

At the moment Delaney seems like the most reasonable candidate. However, I am not sure he will sell. People vote for what they want to hear or want to believe, not necessarily what makes sense or what is truth.

Remember McCain vs Obama. McCain was more qualified by a longshot but Obama was a better sell.

Delaney has about a long uphill road as you can have, but he carried himself well last night. He has one and only one shot and it's a long one. Somehow he needs to do some serious damage in Iowa and get more in the conversation. Right now he's just a fringe candidate that had a good night. Secondly, Biden has to falter big time, because the votes have to come from somewhere and Delaney is not getting the Bernie/Warren voters. I do think Biden has a problem and he will struggle to hold his lead in these debates. He's less inspiring than most of the 20 and a weak counter-puncher as everyone is taking shots at him. Wouldn't be surprised if Booker went hard after him tonight because he's polling poorly and needs some of Joe's AA votes.

 

[Merge]

I have long been aware of the financial implication for providers if they have to operate from Medicare rates. As he said, many will fold. You can imagine what that will do to wait times.

I didn't watch yet, so I can't really give an opinion but that line from Delaney is just not accurate.

If we moved to M4A, there would be nothing preventing us from establishing reimbursement rates that would work.
There are plenty of valid arguments against M4A, and I don't think we will end up there but that is a poor argument.

 

[Merge]

Delaney has about a long uphill road as you can have, but he carried himself well last night. He has one and only one shot and it's a long one. Somehow he needs to do some serious damage in Iowa and get more in the conversation. Right now he's just a fringe candidate that had a good night. Secondly, Biden has to falter big time, because the votes have to come from somewhere and Delaney is not getting the Bernie/Warren voters. I do think Biden has a problem and he will struggle to hold his lead in these debates. He's less inspiring than most of the 20 and a weak counter-puncher as everyone is taking shots at him. Wouldn't be surprised if Booker went hard after him tonight because he's polling poorly and needs some of Joe's AA votes.

The field is about to be cut in half for the next debate.
Biden, Bernie, Warren, Beto, Buttigieg, Yang, Booker, Klobuchar, Harris and Castro.
If anyone else wants to make the cut, Biden will need to get dinged up a bit tonight.

If Biden has a strong debate, I think that will essentially block any of the fringe candidates going forward.

 

[HALL85]

I did watch all three hours (I have no life, but did an hour on the elliptical) My take from last night:

Delaney - He was on point, had solutions and effectively landed blows on Warren and Bernie going after them right from the start.
Ryan - Strong showing. Big improvement since first debate. Showed he belonged.
Bullock - Started strong, lost momentum in the second half.
Buttigieg - Probably the most articulate. VP candidate?
Klobuchar - Angling for VP? Over selling her Mid-west roots.
Williamson - Great entertainment value. She had a couple of good lines and a few that were pure wacko.
Warren - Looked a bit flustered when Delaney went after her. Not a good night, although she had the best sound-byte.
Sanders - Solidified the Antifa vote. He needs some new material.
Hickenlooper - Kind of like just there...needs a shot and a half of charisma.
O’Rourke - Set a record for number of platitudes. He’s done.

Biggest head scratcher by CNN. No questions about Mueller, election security or Russian meddling.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

I did watch all three hours (I have no life, but did an hour on the elliptical) My take from last night:

Delaney - He was on point, had solutions and effectively landed blows on Warren and Bernie going after them right from the start.
Ryan - Strong showing. Big improvement since first debate. Showed he belonged.
Bullock - Started strong, lost momentum in the second half.
Buttigieg - Probably the most articulate. VP candidate?
Klobuchar - Angling for VP? Over selling her Mid-west roots.
Williamson - Great entertainment value. She had a couple of good lines and a few that were pure wacko.
Warren - Looked a bit flustered when Delaney went after her. Not a good night, although she had the best sound-byte.
Sanders - Solidified the Antifa vote. He needs some new material.
Hickenlooper - Kind of like just there...needs a shot and a half of charisma.
O’Rourke - Set a record for number of platitudes. He’s done.

Biggest head scratcher by CNN. No questions about Mueller, election security or Russian meddling.

I didn’t watch the whole thing but the biggest head scratcher is they didn’t ask bernie about the $15 minimum wage considering he’s not paying his people $15 an hour

 

[HALL85]

I tried to watch the full three hours last night, but bailed after two. Major Garrett had a great analogy this morning on Biden. After the first debate he was a 747 losing altitude fast, but leveled off last night with two engines operating (out of four). He can go in either direction now. He fended off most of the attacks but had some senior moments that would give people pause in the general election.

Overall, I thought last night was a big letdown after Tuesday. The first 45 minutes were about a confusing exchange about healthcare that I am guessing 95% of the viewers didn't follow. Harris looked very uncomfortable when she was attacked and didn't hold up well IMO. Booker says a lot of words, but doesn't really say anything. Castro didn't build on his first debate which was a good one. Overall, I didn't see any of the second tier candidates make any kind of move or say something that made sense other than Andrew Yang suggesting that we need to move to higher ground as climate changes continue. Too logical for a politician though.

 

[Pirata]

If we moved to M4A, there would be nothing preventing us from establishing reimbursement rates that would work.

Insane.

You're suggesting the government control 20% of our GDP.

 

[Merge]

Insane.

You're suggesting the government control 20% of our GDP.

No, I'm not suggesting that.

I am not arguing for M4A. I am saying that Delaney's argument (again I didn't watch so assuming you paraphrased correctly...) that Hospitals would fold and wait times would go up due to lower reimbursement rates is not a valid argument. It would be a fairly easy fix in an overall restructuring of the program. They could even establish a rate setting board of industry physicians across the country.

 

[Pirata]

I understand what you're saying but the notion of a single government controlled board that sets rates for all medical procedures and services in the country is not tenable.

It may sound good on paper but in my opinion it would be a disaster. I don't care how many so called experts you staff it with, it will eventually become bloated and corrupt.

 

[HALL85]

I understand what you're saying but the notion of a single government controlled board that sets rates for all medical procedures and services in the country is not tenable.

It may sound good on paper but in my opinion it would be a disaster. I don't care how many so called experts you staff it with, it will eventually become bloated and corrupt.

Case in point, Will the same open heart procedure be priced the same whether it gets done at the Mayo clinic or Morristown Memorial?

 

[Pirata]

Case in point, Will the same open heart procedure be priced the same whether it gets done at the Mayo clinic or Morristown Memorial?

Federal tax code comes to mind.

 

[Pirata]

again I didn't watch so assuming you paraphrased correctly...) that Hospitals would fold and wait times would go up due to lower reimbursement rates

He only said they would fold. He cited conversations with providers.

I do not agree with the aspect has claimed that all hospitals would close but I do believe some number would.

I added the wait times which I believe will be a consequence of less capacity.

 

[HALL85]

Federal tax code comes to mind.

Please explain.

 

[Pirata]

Please explain.

Left to there own devices the government will implement a convoluted, complex, and confusing mechanism to determine rates. Similar to our beloved tax code.

If you need help interpreting the rates, there be a hotline that you an call and wait for 2 hours only to be disconnected.

You will be responsible to use the correct rate which will be audited by a vast bureaucracy. If you err, you will be subject to civil and criminal penalties with little or no recourse to appeal.

Yes, my view is cynical.

 

[HALL85]

Left to there own devices the government will implement a convoluted, complex, and confusing mechanism to determine rates. Similar to our beloved tax code.

If you need help interpreting the rates, there be a hotline that you an call and wait for 2 hours only to be disconnected.

You will be responsible to use the correct rate which will be audited by a vast bureaucracy. If you err, you will be subject to civil and criminal penalties with little or no recourse to appeal.

Yes, my view is cynical.

Yes, I think you have just scratched the surface on the additional bureaucracy costs and complication that would create.

This is really a circular discussion anyway. You really start with the questions we should be asking....are we trying to improve access to healthcare? Are we trying to really reduce the cost of care? Are we trying to reduce what is spent on insurance, private and public?

 

[Merge]

He only said they would fold. He cited conversations with providers.

I do not agree with the aspect has claimed that all hospitals would close but I do believe some number would.

I added the wait times which I believe will be a consequence of less capacity.

Again, I just don’t agree M4A would in itself force closures of hospitals as we don’t really even know what M4A would look like. Hospitals especially in rural areas where there are high numbers of uninsured patients have been closing for a couple decades. The issues you are concerned about could easily be prevented.

 

[Merge]

Yes, I think you have just scratched the surface on the additional bureaucracy costs and complication that would create.

This is really a circular discussion anyway. You really start with the questions we should be asking....are we trying to improve access to healthcare? Are we trying to really reduce the cost of care? Are we trying to reduce what is spent on insurance, private and public?

Agree 100%. A couple candidates are trying to frame the conversation that way and I think that’s where it ends up since the more moderate candidates have backed off of M4A. They need to do a better job explaining why their system is better but I’d rather find the center between M4A and the current system than negotiating back to the ACA.

 

[HALL85]

Again, I just don’t agree M4A would in itself force closures of hospitals as we don’t really even know what M4A would look like. Hospitals especially in rural areas where there are high numbers of uninsured patients have been closing for a couple decades. The issues you are concerned about could easily be prevented.

What Delaney said was that if hospitals had to accept Medicare rates for all of their patients, they would shut down, which is essentially true. Or they would have to do drastic labor and service cuts that would impact the quality of care and outcomes.

 

[Pirata]

He only said they would fold. He cited conversations with providers.

I do not agree with the aspect has claimed that all hospitals would close but I do believe some number would.

I added the wait times which I believe will be a consequence of less capacity.

Again, I just don’t agree M4A would in itself force closures of hospitals as we don’t really even know what M4A would look like. Hospitals especially in rural areas where there are high numbers of uninsured patients have been closing for a couple decades. The issues you are concerned about could easily be prevented.

I am less concerned about Delaney's quote about hospitals folding than I am about the idea of the nation setting rates on 20% of the GDP.

I do not share your same enthusiasm that our government could control them entire healthcare system for the country.

 

[Merge]

I am less concerned about Delaney's quote about hospitals folding than I am about the idea of the nation setting rates on 20% of the GDP.

I do not share your same enthusiasm that our government could control them entire healthcare system for the country.

Again, I am not arguing in favor of M4A. My preferred candidates for 2020 are not pushing for M4A.

If you are against M4A because you don’t want a government takeover of the insurance industry, that’s fine. I was just trying to keep the discussion above the 2020 version of death panels.

 

[HALL85]

Monmouth poll has Biden essentially tied with Bernie and Warren. The main reason for his early lead was because he was most likely to beat Trump. If he’s tied going into the first primaries, he’s done.