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Don’t overreact to Rick Pitino’s first-year failure at St. John’s

Halldan1

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Jan 1, 2003
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By Mike Vaccaro

The ghost has been given up. The flag has been furled. The sword has been surrendered. One minute late Sunday afternoon, St. John’s was trucking Seton Hall at UBS Arena, up by 19, seemingly making its first essential stand of a season that had already been reduced to a series of must-win games.

When it was over, Rick Pitino shook Shaheen Holloway’s hand after Holloway’s Seton Hall Pirates had trucked and trampled Pitino’s St. John’s Red Storm, 68-62.

The Pirates had taken the Johnnies to the woodshed across the game’s final 20 minutes, and Holloway had all but thrown Pitino’s first St. John’s team into a wood chipper.

All that remains is a fantasy — a folly, really — of winning four games in four days at Madison Square Garden next month. There will be no storybooks sold on Utopia Parkway, not this year. The season has gone from 12-4 to 14-12 in an eyeblink. No magic potions. No magic wands.

“This,” Pitino said, “is the most unenjoyable experience of my lifetime.”

It’s a matter of record that, while Pitino’s entire college-coaching career has been a case study in program rehabilitation, he has never overseen a complete first-year turnaround. Mostly, he has taken over programs that were dying or decaying — file St. John’s under the latter — sold a system and a promise in Year 1 and then started to do serious winning in Year 2.

At Boston U., it was 17-9 followed by 21-9 and a regular-season ECAC-North title. At Providence, it was 17-14 followed by 25-9 and a rollicking ride to the Final Four. At Kentucky, it was 14-14 in Year 1, 22-6 and a regular-season SEC title in Year 2. At Louisville, it was 19-13 his first year followed by 25-7 and a Conference USA championship his second. And Iona went from 12-6 (though they did win the MAAC Tournament) in 2021 to 25-8 in ’22.

On one hand, this is exactly the blueprint. The Johnnies are still probably going to hit 18 wins. Maybe they’ll sneak into the NIT. And if they do stick at 18, it will fill many detractors who comprise his vast enemies list with the gleeful reality that 18 was what Mike Anderson got out of last year’s team.

And Pitino deserves at least a couple of the slings and arrows now pointed at his team after going 2-8 in its last 10. He probably miscalculated on a lot of the temporary program stopgaps that either played way over their heads the first 16 games or have regressed to the mean the last 10 (or both). That’s on him. Joel Soriano’s puzzling regression the last month, at least in part, is on Pitino. The team-wide inability to guard against second-half collapses, that’s on him, along with his failure to find a system to match his talent after it became obvious this group couldn’t play at his preferred, frenetic, 3-point-happy pace.

It doesn’t mean he’s forgotten how to coach. But even the best coaches have tough years. This has been a tough year. And if you’re going to use Pitino’s past successes as a guide going forward, it should be pointed out — as Pitino himself has repeatedly pointed out this year — that this is a different landscape than the ones he negotiated at BU, at PC, at UK and at UL. NIL makes it so. The transfer portal makes it so. The presence of UConn as an annual supernova makes it so.

It should be pointed out: For all the optimism Pitino’s hiring engendered, Pitino himself never guaranteed an NCAA bid this year. He did make assurances that the team would be better in January than it was in November, and better still in March. The first part of that was correct; the second … well, it doesn’t look good.

St. John’s also didn’t hire Pitino to win in 2023-24; he was hired to win across the next five years, to rebuild and reestablish infrastructure, interest, excitement and prosperity in the Big East’s dormant sleeping giant. He has done the first three. The last is the trickiest. But that will be what’s best remembered, if he’s able to get this program there. It is still awfully hard to bet against that happening.

It’s just equally discouraging to see what’s become of a once-promising season. Maybe the Johnnies have four magical days at the Garden in them in a few weeks. More likely is an NIT watch party.
 
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It's a last ditch effort on his part to try & salvage the season. Don't be surprised if every guy he threw under the bus will show up to practice tomorrow bound & determined to prove him wrong. They have some easy games left & have the depth to make a run in the BET.
 
It's a last ditch effort on his part to try & salvage the season. Don't be surprised if every guy he threw under the bus will show up to practice tomorrow bound & determined to prove him wrong. They have some easy games left & have the depth to make a run in the BET.
I think this was the proverbial break glad in case of emergency move. The team showed no life the second half. We were down 19 but it was odd, I didn’t feel like we were that far down. We just were playing bad, turn overs, bad shooting. Felt like if we started hitting shots we would get back in it. We did. They did foul a lot and should have been called for a bunch more. .
 
Looking at Soriano's body language I think Rick has turned him off.Some kids need positive strokes even when they're not playing well.
He clearly wasn’t happy with Ricky late in the game when he was on the bench listening to Ricky’s drivel.
 
Pitino and failure in the same headline must have the HOF egomaniac Pitino cringing. So awesome.
 
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On ESPN they just said the same thing. Bart Scott said how do you recruit after those comments.
Who wants to bet he recruits better than Willard over the next 3 years? That is if Kevin has a job that long.
 
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What does any of this have to do with Willard?
It is relevant in that his excuse was the facilities for 12 years. You also said Pitino wont be able to recruit now because he made these comments. I’m saying I’d be willing to bet Pitino out recruits him with his crappy facilities and having made those comments. Pitino is a HOF coach who has always been a great recruiter.
 
It is relevant in that his excuse was the facilities for 12 years. You also said Pitino wont be able to recruit now because he made these comments. I’m saying I’d be willing to bet Pitino out recruits him with his crappy facilities and having made those comments. Pitino is a HOF coach who has always been a great recruiter.
$$$ talks. He was into NIL before it became “legal”.
 
It is relevant in that his excuse was the facilities for 12 years. You also said Pitino wont be able to recruit now because he made these comments. I’m saying I’d be willing to bet Pitino out recruits him with his crappy facilities and having made those comments. Pitino is a HOF coach who has always been a great recruiter.
Willard complained abour our facilities? Not implying criticism is unwarranted, just that i dont remember him doing so.
 
Shaheen basically threw our team under the bus after the Villanova game and many here jumped on said bus.

Coaches do it all the time. Even ones we like.

I personally don't agree with running players down in the media but I understand why it happens. I'd hope a coach would have addressed it with his player(s) first but I'm not naive enough to believe that always happens.
 
Shaheen basically threw our team under the bus after the Villanova game and many here jumped on said bus.

Coaches do it all the time. Even ones we like.

I personally don't agree with running players down in the media but I understand why it happens. I'd hope a coach would have addressed it with his player(s) first but I'm not naive enough to believe that always happens.
It’s one thing to call out a team’s and players’ performances. Sha said they don’t play like that and everyone knew what he was getting at.

Rick basically said they have no talent and are lazy.

You can come back from being told you played like horseshit. It’s tougher when you’re told you’re horseshit.
 
Willard complained abour our facilities? Not implying criticism is unwarranted, just that i dont remember him doing so.
He didn’t? My assumption by how everyone on this board constantly talked about what a hard job SHU is because of lack of facilities and that was the reason. He couldn’t land a top recruit without hiring their high school coach.
 
It’s one thing to call out a team’s and players’ performances. Sha said they don’t play like that and everyone knew what he was getting at.

Rick basically said they have no talent and are lazy.

You can come back from being told you played like horseshit. It’s tougher when you’re told you’re horseshit.
And he called out guys by name.
 
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He didn’t? My assumption by how everyone on this board constantly talked about what a hard job SHU is because of lack of facilities and that was the reason. He couldn’t land a top recruit without hiring their high school coach.
Still on the HS coach BS. This goes back a decade! Get a life. I thought you just posted that every school does some not entirely above board stuff. Amazing, we have documented Dawes Derangement Syndrome. We now can officially add Willard Derangement Syndrome.
 
Still on the HS coach BS. This goes back a decade! Get a life. I thought you just posted that every school does some not entirely above board stuff. Amazing, we have documented Dawes Derangement Syndrome. We now can officially add Willard Derangement Syndrome.
I don’t care that he used the HS coach to land IW. I wish he had the ability to land other recruits after that. Never close to another 5* in his tenure.
 
I don’t care that he used the HS coach to land IW. I wish he had the ability to land other recruits after that. Never close to another 5* in his tenure.
When has SHU ever been able to land 5 star recruits? Not since PJ 40+ years ago. SHU is a developmental program and Willard did a fairly good job with that. Can Sha do that in an NIL world?
 
Amaker as well.
It’s just crazy. This is from memory, but my recollection was that it was something like this…

Griffin 1
Barrett high teens
MTE 30s
Fray ~150

Now I may be ~20 spots too high on Barrett/MTE but even that would be silly today.
 
If you don’t think every blue chip program wasn’t your deluding yourself.
Duh - this was about Peetweeno not recruiting in general by other programs - most notably Puke players driving new cars and family given jobs. No delusion here. Apology accepted.
 
If I can't overreact to Ricky's season can I at least be amused by it more than a reasonable person may be amused?
 
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