not a huge fan of these mega corporations but im into this.
https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/g...tificate-project-management-data-analyst.html
https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/g...tificate-project-management-data-analyst.html
Finally a challenger to disrupt education
- Thread starter SHUSA
- Start date
I've been advocating this for years. If corporations are demanding college graduates be skilled in specific technological areas, they ought to assume responsibility for the training. I am a believer of the idea that universities exist for the development of the whole human being, prepared to live thoughtful and ethical lives - the liberal arts tradition. These two models make clear the distinction between education and training. They are both important but we shouldn't expect one (the undergraduate university) to assume responsibility for all of the myriad technical skills the modern world demands. Is this elitist? If you must call me out with a disparaging tag, I'll take that one.
i think the world is moving towards needing actual skills (again). do you need to go to college for that? has college become too much table stakes?
You raise some good points. I always thought of the college experience being a place to learn/expertise and also help you gain life experiences to go from being a teen ager to an adult. I couldn't afford the campus living part, so I commuted so never had that benefit (but I survived...lol). All of our kids went away and the environment of the school was a good match to help then gain that experience.
We have gone overboard with the university experience and the cost of providing it. We have college graduates, many that don't have the skills or social skills required in many companies. They have become out of step/outdated in providing skilled labor with independent thought and leadership skills. Their answer is charge more an allow students to live in a cocoon and isolate. It's a market ripe for disruption. What Google is doing is basically creating a high tech, on-line vocational school. If they can somehow incorporate the socialization aspect into this, they can completely replace a college experience. In addition to the on-line classroom, if they can bolt on a 3-4 week campus experience each semester that would provide group dynamic, socialization and leadership skills, they would be onto something.
apologies, thought it would be relevant to shu so put it to main board. especially during these times.
basically it boils down to 1) price is too high 2) many students arent even learning skills for their future. 3) there is almost no effort preparing students to actually think about what they want in life and given the mindset that they can actually do it.
college is just sort of the thing you do because its the next step, its what you gotta do if you want to stay pace as a regular joe. in highschool i very much thought this way. i chose a major based on what i thought was safe and started my career in a marketing field that shu didnt even cover. we were in the recession so it was actually a paid internship.
so i basically went to school for 4 years to be no farther along than if i hadnt (in that industry). if i had that internship at age 18 i would have been 3 years ahead in the workforce. and that internship really required nothing that college (and shu) provided. you just have to pay a lot if money for that degree only to be considered. this is an example of the problem being highlighted here.
i dont regret it at all and love shu, wouldnt trade it. but someone else could easily trade it for actual work experience.
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As someone who hires college grads as well as those with HS diplomas only, there is very little difference in work ethic, basic commutation skills and maturity.
Always thought tech companies should be more involved in education of future employees. I have computer science degreee from SHU, took so many courses that had little worth for my future profession, even courses the were part of my major.
Don’t get me wrong loved college, but for some people are not built for college either do costs, no desire to take core classes, don’t have grades for college or just don’t want to spend 4 years to start working. These options might be better than overpriced tech schools.
Don’t get me wrong loved college, but for some people are not built for college either do costs, no desire to take core classes, don’t have grades for college or just don’t want to spend 4 years to start working. These options might be better than overpriced tech schools.
You can ask this question on https://askanydifference.com. If you ask me, I think you don't really need college to become someone in this life, but in my opinion, I think you need to have a college degree, it can become your plan B in life if something goes wrong. Personally, I want to become a lawyer and for that I need to finish a college and then the law school. So everybody has its own road to success and there is nothing bad in that. I think that you don't have to judge someone if he studies or not in college.
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One thing is for sure. Higher ed is ripe for disruption. The costs have gotten way too high and fringe benefits students expect by attending a college have nothing to do with the quality of the education they receive. I mean how much did I pay for my three kids so the schools could have sushi in the cafeteria and gorgeous dorms and beautiful campuses? I'm glad I was able to give them a great education and college experience but in reality could have done it at half the price and the education would be the same.
The college experience has gone from being about educated to being pampered. The arms race of colleges has become about who can offer a better country club experience. I was once a tour a of a campus and the place was gorgeous and the tour guide was showing off all of the fun things you can do, one parent jokingly asked, do they give homework here? The question is how many are truly walking out of college with the social and work skills necessary for the work force as opposed to a nice piece of paper saying they made it through.
Good point about the social experience even lacking. So many colleges bend over backwards to avoid offending/triggering their students, creating a groupthink bubble. You could conceivably come out without your personal beliefs having even been challenged.
The college experience is now just delaying the reality of real life. At some point you need to know how to deal with problems, adversity, contention, challenges to be successful. Just delaying that sets these kids up for failure. And yes, it's their parents generation that should be held accountable for feeding the beast.
What was the experience like in the 80's that prepared you better to deal with the problems, adversity, contention, challenges to be successful compared to education today?
Well first of all, I didn't have the upscale culinary options that were much better than what my parents could normally afford.
I interview so many college graduates today that 1) have resumes that are scary bad, 2) have terrible interpersonal skills, 3) have a sense of entitlement and don't understand what the term "entry level" means 4) have had little if any experience working on a project with a team in college, etc. Now granted, their parents and nuclear family (or lack of) probably has an impact on that, but part of the college experience is preparing you for the real world. I do remember having professors that would connect the two.
I think in the 80's more kids went to local colleges than today. Bad was they didn't live on their own, do their wash, make those small day-to-day decisions that are helpful with kids going away to school. Upside was in the 80's more kids I knew worked part- or full-time while they commuted to school and paid their own tuition and had to balance a lot in that way. No right or wrong but different. Depending on the program, I think colleges today have better academic rigor than we experienced in the 80's but some of the SHU accounting professors were ballbusters (Hensler). But the perks/expectations at colleges today are significant in the cafeteria, lodging and all the stuff the schools do for the students. I paid for my own schooling by working 30+ hours per week while I attended SHU and you don't see that as much today because course loads for some majors are significant and we probably coddled our kids more than I was and frankly the cost of college is way higher. My parents had 5 kids and told me if I wanted it to go get it and I had to pay for my tuition, car, gas, car insurance and clothes so I had to work. I was busy but I think it helped me be the ahole I am today.
Yeah, I think every generation will deal with different challenges and benefits. I wasn't in college in the 80's but growing up in south orange there was definitely the perception that Seton Hall had a much more significant party culture compared to what they have today. No idea how true that is, but that was the perception at least.
That said, I do interview accounting students and generally have found that they are well prepared to start working and I would say most are actually pretty impressive. Actually had a sophomore from Seton Hall reach out to me about a month ago to learn more about my firm and for any advice on her career path. I love seeing stuff like that.
i dont think shu counts under the umbrella of pampering students lol. so we all have that going for us.
most businesses could probably hire HS interns and get the same results. and the kids would be better off. it may create a more stable employee base too where people dont jump ship every 1/2 years
most businesses could probably hire HS interns and get the same results. and the kids would be better off. it may create a more stable employee base too where people dont jump ship every 1/2 years
Resume, Scary bad in format/content or both?
What can a college grad really put on a resume outside of the academic credentials, volunteer work and internship experiences they may have had in major related fields?
I would concur I been shown "resumes" that are just listed activies. There is a great youtube guy andrew lacivita who presents crafting foundation of resume, cover letter, interviewing and networking...a good resume is essentially a customized marketing tool for one to grab a hiring manager's attention within 30 seconds
Scary bad in format and content. No one expects a robust resume from a recent college graduate, but it should tell a story about the candidate and focus on as many relevant qualities and experiences as possible. Even if you're 21/22, there are many things you can point to on a resume (work experience, volunteering, technical/other skills, internships, awards, clubs, etc. There is a lot you can put on one page that shows that you actually put some thought into wanting the job. I actually had a resume last year where the candidate used the word "cuz"...lol
For the vast majority of universities if you are conservative your personal beliefs are regularly challenged (to put it one way)
