From the Georgetown message board talking Seton Hall snub..,

[HallBall'n]

Don't know if its accuracy...,

13-7 in the Big East.

Beat top ranked Marquette

A lot of their loses came when their best player Khadri Richmond was out.


Yet the clown corrupt NCAA Selection Committee picked clown team UVA and other clown schools over Seton Hall.

Complete travesty of justice for Seton Hall and the Big East.

Only member on committee with any ties to the Big East was Barry Collier who had to leave the room when the Big East teams were discussed.

Rest of committee had multiple ties to ACC, Sec, Big 10 on their resumes and didn’t have to leave the room if those conferences were on their past history.

Bid stealing will continue to be a problem as NIL and free transfers create a lot do teams like NC State that have 8 new rotation players who don’t gel or peak till late in the season.

NCAA Tournament Selection Committee
The 2023-2024 Selection Committee (the year the term is up, is in parenthesis):

6 of the 12 committee members (with ACC ties) can stay in the room when ACC is discussed.

5 of the 12 committee members (with SEC ties) can stay in the room when SEC is discussed.

CHARLES MCCLELLAND (2024) – SWAC Commissioner (Chairperson)
Must leave room only when SWAC discussed
Texas A&M alumni (SEC)

JAMIE POLLARD (2024) – Iowa State Athletic Director
Must leave room only when Big 12 discussed
Maryland (when in ACC)
Wisconsin Associate AD (Big 10)

SCOTT BARNES (2024) – Oregon State Athletic Director
Must leave room only when Big 12 discussed
Fresno State Alumni (Mountain West)
Utah State AD (Mountain West)
Pittsburgh AD (ACC)

BUBBA CUNNINGHAM (2025) – North Carolina Athletic Director (Vice-Chairperson)
Must leave room only when ACC discussed
Notre Dame alumni (independent)
Notre Dame associate AD (when in Big East)
Ball State AD
Tulsa AD

MARK COYLE (2026) – Minnesota Athletic Director
Must leave room only when Big 10 discussed
Florida State alumni (ACC)
Minnesota associate AD
Kentucky deputy AD (SEC)
Boise St AD (Mountain West)
Syracuse AD (ACC)

GREG BYRNE (2026) – Alabama Athletic Director
Must leave room only when SEC discussed
ASU Alumni (PAC)
Oregon associate AD (PAC)
Oregon St associate AD (PAC)
Kentucky associate AD (SEC)
Mississippi St AD (SEC)
Arizona AD (PAC)



KEITH GILL (2026) – Sun Belt Commissioner
Must leave room only when Sun Belt discussed
Duke Alumni (ACC)
Vanderbilt associate AD (SEC)
Oklahoma associate AD (Big 12)
American AD (Patriot)
Richmond AD (A-10)
A-10 assistant commissioner


BARRY COLLIER (2026) – Butler Athletic Director
Must leave room only when Big East discussed

MARTIN NEWTON (2027) – Samford Athletic Director
Must leave room only when discussed
Kentucky athletic department (SEC)

TOM WISTRCILL (2027) – Big Sky Commissioner
Must leave room only when Big Sky discussed
Minnesota athletic dept intern (Big 10)
Wisconsin Athletic Department (Big 10)
Minnesota associate AD (Big 10)
Akron AD (Mid American)

ARTHUR JOHNSON (2028) – Temple Athletic Director
Must leave room only when AAC discussed
Georgia Alumni (SEC)
ASU football operations (PAC)
UNC football operations (ACC)
Texas associate AD (Big 12)
Georgia associate AD (SEC)
Texas senior associate AD (Big 12)


RENEE BAUMGARTNER (2028) – Santa Clara Athletic Director
Must leave room only when West Coast Conference discussed
USC alumni (PAC)
Oregon alumni (PAC)
Oregon
Syracuse deputy AD (ACC)

 

[garyshu71]

If you look closely you’ll see not one person ever was associated with one BE school. Except for the useless Collier from Butler.

 

[hallstorm]

Wow that’s a pretty strong indictment and interesting set of conditions.

Certainly makes their “matrix” much more transparent.

 

[ivyhillparkk1963]

So you mean to tell me collier has no say when an injustice is about to predicated onto a fellow conference member?
Can't he refuse to sign off on such

 

[lloyde dobler]

So you mean to tell me collier has no say when an injustice is about to predicated onto a fellow conference member?
Can't he refuse to sign off on such

Unfortunately, it’s a committee and not a jury.

 

[Section112]

Collier is a terrible pick to represent the Big East. Should have been a legacy BE rep on that Committee at minimum and someone with a spine.

 

[SPK145]

Beat top ranked Marquette

Wrong

A lot of their loses came when their best player Khadri Richmond was out.

Wrong. Only 2 and one was at Marquette and lost by 18.

The above makes me think whoever posted this is an idiot, rendering the rest useless.

 

[hallwins]

Don't know if its accuracy...,

13-7 in the Big East.

Beat top ranked Marquette

A lot of their loses came when their best player Khadri Richmond was out.


Yet the clown corrupt NCAA Selection Committee picked clown team UVA and other clown schools over Seton Hall.

Complete travesty of justice for Seton Hall and the Big East.

Only member on committee with any ties to the Big East was Barry Collier who had to leave the room when the Big East teams were discussed.

Rest of committee had multiple ties to ACC, Sec, Big 10 on their resumes and didn’t have to leave the room if those conferences were on their past history.

Bid stealing will continue to be a problem as NIL and free transfers create a lot do teams like NC State that have 8 new rotation players who don’t gel or peak till late in the season.

NCAA Tournament Selection Committee
The 2023-2024 Selection Committee (the year the term is up, is in parenthesis):

6 of the 12 committee members (with ACC ties) can stay in the room when ACC is discussed.

5 of the 12 committee members (with SEC ties) can stay in the room when SEC is discussed.

CHARLES MCCLELLAND (2024) – SWAC Commissioner (Chairperson)
Must leave room only when SWAC discussed
Texas A&M alumni (SEC)

JAMIE POLLARD (2024) – Iowa State Athletic Director
Must leave room only when Big 12 discussed
Maryland (when in ACC)
Wisconsin Associate AD (Big 10)

SCOTT BARNES (2024) – Oregon State Athletic Director
Must leave room only when Big 12 discussed
Fresno State Alumni (Mountain West)
Utah State AD (Mountain West)
Pittsburgh AD (ACC)

BUBBA CUNNINGHAM (2025) – North Carolina Athletic Director (Vice-Chairperson)
Must leave room only when ACC discussed
Notre Dame alumni (independent)
Notre Dame associate AD (when in Big East)
Ball State AD
Tulsa AD

MARK COYLE (2026) – Minnesota Athletic Director
Must leave room only when Big 10 discussed
Florida State alumni (ACC)
Minnesota associate AD
Kentucky deputy AD (SEC)
Boise St AD (Mountain West)
Syracuse AD (ACC)

GREG BYRNE (2026) – Alabama Athletic Director
Must leave room only when SEC discussed
ASU Alumni (PAC)
Oregon associate AD (PAC)
Oregon St associate AD (PAC)
Kentucky associate AD (SEC)
Mississippi St AD (SEC)
Arizona AD (PAC)



KEITH GILL (2026) – Sun Belt Commissioner
Must leave room only when Sun Belt discussed
Duke Alumni (ACC)
Vanderbilt associate AD (SEC)
Oklahoma associate AD (Big 12)
American AD (Patriot)
Richmond AD (A-10)
A-10 assistant commissioner


BARRY COLLIER (2026) – Butler Athletic Director
Must leave room only when Big East discussed

MARTIN NEWTON (2027) – Samford Athletic Director
Must leave room only when discussed
Kentucky athletic department (SEC)

TOM WISTRCILL (2027) – Big Sky Commissioner
Must leave room only when Big Sky discussed
Minnesota athletic dept intern (Big 10)
Wisconsin Athletic Department (Big 10)
Minnesota associate AD (Big 10)
Akron AD (Mid American)

ARTHUR JOHNSON (2028) – Temple Athletic Director
Must leave room only when AAC discussed
Georgia Alumni (SEC)
ASU football operations (PAC)
UNC football operations (ACC)
Texas associate AD (Big 12)
Georgia associate AD (SEC)
Texas senior associate AD (Big 12)


RENEE BAUMGARTNER (2028) – Santa Clara Athletic Director
Must leave room only when West Coast Conference discussed
USC alumni (PAC)
Oregon alumni (PAC)
Oregon
Syracuse deputy AD (ACC)

But this is a completely objective, metric driven process.

 

[CL82]

Only member on committee with any ties to the Big East was Barry Collier who had to leave the room when the Big East teams were discussed

Committee members have to leave when their school is discussed but do not have to leave when a different school in their conference is discussed.

For whatever reason, Collier didn't stand up for Big East schools, or did so ineffectively. Val should ask him to resign and then appoint someone who is going to do more than just sit in a chair.

 

[hallwins]

Wrong

Wrong. Only 2 and one was at Marquette and lost by 18.

The above makes me think whoever posted this is an idiot, rendering the rest useless.

I understand your point. However, we lost 6 times after New Year's Day. Khadary did not play in 1/3 of those games. Our record in conference with Richmond was 13-5.

What the poster writes is easily verifiable if one wants to take the time. I would not just excuse the entire post and call the poster an idiot.

 

[JoePeppitone2012]

The incentive bring that $$$ credit back to your conference

Who cares about anything else

 

[LBP43]

Committee members have to leave when their school is discussed but do not have to leave when a different school in their conference is discussed.

For whatever reason, Collier didn't stand up for Big East schools, or did so ineffectively. Val should ask him to resign and then appoint someone who is going to do more than just sit in a chair.

Collier should never have been appointed -- he "resigned" last Year and was allowed to stay at Butler til this April--Val totally asleep behind the wheel and has been laying low since--

 

[SPK145]

What the poster writes is easily verifiable if one wants to take the time. I would not just excuse the entire post and call the poster an idiot.

There is no way to verify that commission members stayed or left during discussions of their conference members.

 

[Piratz]

Maybe Renee Baumgartner had an axe to grind bc we took Bediako!!

 

[hallwins]

There is no way to verify that commission members stayed or left during discussions of their conference members.

You think Commission members left the room if not required? The poster is saying that the affiliations of committee members with other football conferences, goes well beyond the members' current official role that kicks in the refusal obligation.

What I see from the research the poster provides is that other than Collier, there is no Big East connection either direct or indirect, on the Committee. I read it quickly, so if missed something, feel free to emoji away.

 

[hallwins]

Collier should never have been appointed -- he "resigned" last Year and was allowed to stay at Butler til this April--Val totally asleep behind the wheel and has been laying low since--

Did I read this was year 1 of a 2 year term for Collier?

 

[shu09]

Amazing how people are looking to create a conspiracy when there is nothing there.

 

[chickenbox]

The tweet with the long and complicated look at the KPI, which was over my head, may be worth a look for the investigators. Not a conspiracy but seemingly demonstrative how hard numbers can tell strange stories

 

[SPK145]

You think Commission members left the room if not required? The poster is saying that the affiliations of committee members with other football conferences, goes well beyond the members' current official role that kicks in the refusal obligation.

What I see from the research the poster provides is that other than Collier, there is no Big East connection either direct or indirect, on the Committee. I read it quickly, so if missed something, feel free to emoji away.

It's a stupid premise. So someone who served on the staff of an ACC or SEC program years and years ago is still tied to that conference?

 

[Piratz]

Committee members have to leave when their school is discussed but do not have to leave when a different school in their conference is discussed.

For whatever reason, Collier didn't stand up for Big East schools, or did so ineffectively. Val should ask him to resign and then appoint someone who is going to do more than just sit in a chair.

It’s a vote. Who knows what goes on in these discussions.

We will debate this forever. In 2003 it was similar stuff as Seton Hall and Boston College were left out despite going 10-6 in the BE, first time ever 10-win BE team wasn’t invited. This year was nuts to go 13-7 and miss, but hey, we gave them ammo:

We went 7-4 in the non-conference with a SOS in like the 240’s featuring a Q3 loss and the best wins were NET #158 Missouri on a neutral floor (Q3) and #193 Monmouth at home (Q4). Woof. Not a single Q1-2 win in the non-con. That’s as bad as the BE season was good and we got clipped for it in the pecking order with the flukes of Championship Week hit. Sucks. I would’ve had us in even with the 5 upsets, albeit the second-to-last in. They disagreed. The cited non-con for UVA (and I believe he said metrics too if I recall), one of the teams in contention with us

 

[seton1996]

Collier is a terrible pick to represent the Big East. Should have been a legacy BE rep on that Committee at minimum and someone with a spine.

BE got screwed, but you know nothing about what the butler AD did or didn’t do during committee meetings.

Also, why should it be a BE legacy rep, they would have been more qualified why?

 

[Section112]

BE got screwed, but you know nothing about what the butler AD did or didn’t do during committee meetings.

Also, why should it be a BE legacy rep, they would have been more qualified why?

The guy was retiring and they kept him on another year and they gave him this post. Need someone who cares about the long-term. You are right I don't know, but there are so many other qualified BE folks that should have been on the Committee.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

The guy was retiring and they kept him on another year and they gave him this post. Need someone who cares about the long-term. You are right I don't know, but there are so many other qualified BE folks that should have been on the Committee.

The idea that the big east got screwed is a joke, however you are exactly right there were many other qualified people the big east could've put on the Committee. I don't think the results would've changed but it would be a better look.

 

[CL82]

There is no way to verify that commission members stayed or left during discussions of their conference members.

I guess, but it's easy enough to verify the rules. And the rules are you only have to leave when your school is being discussed.

 

[HallX2]

The idea that the big east got screwed is a joke, however you are exactly right there were many other qualified people the big east could've put on the Committee. I don't think the results would've changed but it would be a better look.

You believe we were fairly judged? Cause the absence of a fair judgment constitutes being screwed.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

You believe we were fairly judged? Cause the absence of a fair judgment constitutes being screwed.

Yes 2nd team out is about right. 226 brackets were done on selection Sunday, 13 had us in. The committee and everyone who has a bracket didn't get together say hahaha let's screw the big east or seton hall. More brackets had SJU in than us. I'm not sure I agree with that based on the last week of the season, but anyone last 4 in and first 4 out didn't do enough to say yeah we SHOULD have been in. All are borderline and you live and die with it.

 

[sussexcopirate]

You believe we were fairly judged? Cause the absence of a fair judgment constitutes being screwed.

Youre engaging a Willard schill that thinks he's the smartest person to walk the earth and had the audacity to shit on the team minutes after we win the NIT. Why pay him any attention?

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

You're engaging a Willard schill that thinks he's the smartest person to walk the earth and had the audacity to crap on the team minutes after we win the NIT. Why pay him any attention?

I'm the same person who didn't lose faith when we lost at RU in 2020. The whole board went off the deep end like lunatics at that time. Remember that. Guys cursing out the entire roster on here. That's all cool to do. The same group of people who belittled the NIT and made the NCAA tournament 1st round losses unacceptable now go through the roof for an NIT win? My goal has always been the same make the tournament. Everyone else wanted 2nd weekend of the tournament or not good enough. Yet now NIT is remarkable, talk about schills. I said in every post we overachieved this year and that's great but nobody brags about the NIT, nobody. If anything I shit on the people who moved the goalposts.

 

[hallstorm]

I actually hate the argument of having 213 of 226 brackets be the defining acumen for SHU to make the dance.

That obviously means less and less committee members watch the games since they can just lean on all these other “experts” (read: anyone with a twitter account).

I’m sure the bracket argument will soon become the metrics argument when that is supposed to be just a sorting tool 🙄

Neither side will convince the other. And neither side really can factually back it up.

The simple fact that Virginia in March wasn’t anything resembling the Virginia last November. They didn’t deserve it plain and simple.

 

[Seton75]

Mq was top rated BE team in the preseason. We beat them.

 

[hallwins]

It's a stupid premise. So someone who served on the staff of an ACC or SEC program years and years ago is still tied to that conference?

I don't know these people and I am assuming you don't as well. There can be bias in a situation like that, for sure. Even unintentional bias. A lot of people have good feelings for places where they worked or played a role in their career.

I understand you disagree, but for some posters on here to simply blindly defend the NCAA on this selection process when many are ready to criticize the NCAA about everything else including selective enforcement of rules, seems a bit counter intuitive.

If it is metric driven, you really don't need a committee. Just let the computer pick. At least we will not have to listen to the Committee Chair provide inconsistent responses to questions.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

I actually hate the argument of having 213 of 226 brackets be the defining acumen for SHU to make the dance.

That obviously means less and less committee members watch the games since they can just lean on all these other “experts” (read: anyone with a twitter account).

I’m sure the bracket argument will soon become the metrics argument when that is supposed to be just a sorting tool 🙄

Neither side will convince the other. And neither side really can factually back it up.

The simple fact that Virginia in March wasn’t anything resembling the Virginia last November. They didn’t deserve it plain and simple.

It’s not defining and there will never be defining. But what does say that most people across the country where biases probably balance out, those people didn’t have us in. What’s your defining reason to get us in? The eye test which we passed in only 1 of the last 5? This might shock you, the OU board thinks they should’ve been in. The UVA board thinks they deserved to be in. The Seton Hall board believes Seton Hall should have been in. 226 people across the country I doubt had the same biases. They also didn’t believe uva should be in but they had OU in not us. I’ll bet you agree wit the 226 because under 25 people had UVA. I think it’s widely believed they shouldn’t have been in. i think as whole they’re fair. Overwhelming majority think it was OU’s spot.

 

[SHUSA]

It’s a vote. Who knows what goes on in these discussions.

We will debate this forever. In 2003 it was similar stuff as Seton Hall and Boston College were left out despite going 10-6 in the BE, first time ever 10-win BE team wasn’t invited. This year was nuts to go 13-7 and miss, but hey, we gave them ammo:

We went 7-4 in the non-conference with a SOS in like the 240’s featuring a Q3 loss and the best wins were NET #158 Missouri on a neutral floor (Q3) and #193 Monmouth at home (Q4). Woof. Not a single Q1-2 win in the non-con. That’s as bad as the BE season was good and we got clipped for it in the pecking order with the flukes of Championship Week hit. Sucks. I would’ve had us in even with the 5 upsets, albeit the second-to-last in. They disagreed. The cited non-con for UVA (and I believe he said metrics too if I recall), one of the teams in contention with us

no, we gave them ammo to put us IN. the fact they were just looking for any excuse to keep us out is the whole problem. goes back to the committee member insanely discrediting our uconn win by 15. legit discrediting a win vs back to back champion who probably lost to a total of 6 teams in 2 years. at that point it's a clear agenda. theres no arguing it.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

no, we gave them ammo to put us IN. the fact they were just looking for any excuse to keep us out is the whole problem. goes back to the committee member insanely discrediting our uconn win by 15. legit discrediting a win vs back to back champion who probably lost to a total of 6 teams in 2 years. at that point it's a clear agenda. theres no arguing it.

One would hope they take out our 2 losses without Richmond. Do we know if they did or didn’t. Taking the losses to PC and MU off the board would’ve been the fair thing to do if they discredited the win.

 

[SHUSA]

One would hope they take out our 2 losses without Richmond. Do we know if they did or didn’t. Taking the losses to PC and MU off the board would’ve been the fair thing to do if they discredited the win.

if you take out our two loses then we're 12-5 according to them and a bigger crime being snubbed.

they didnt do anything but decide shu wasn't in before they even entered the room .

short answer, no they didn't take into account richmond's injury.

for the other teams they thought "how can we put these teams in"

for shu they thought "how can we keep this team out"

criminal

 

[shu09]

if you take out our two loses then we're 12-5 according to them and a bigger crime being snubbed.

Seton Hall would have been rocked at Marquette even with Richmond. Can't take that game out. Should have won PC with or without him, they choked that one away.

Non-conference games count, but of course you conveniently ignore them because they weren't good! If you knew anything about the selection process (which you obviously don't), you'd know the primary record on the team sheet is the overall record, not the conference record.

You can manipulate the numbers and records any way you want to suit your phony argument. Seton Hall would have been in the field had it not been for an abnormal number of bid stealers. No agenda, no conspiracy. Just plain old bad luck.

 

[TheHall87]

There's not enough tin foil in the world to make all the hats we need. I wish I owned stock in Reynolds wrap.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Seton Hall would have been rocked at Marquette even with Richmond. Can't take that game out. Should have won PC with or without him, they choked that one away.

Non-conference games count, but of course you conveniently ignore them because they weren't good! If you knew anything about the selection process (which you obviously don't), you'd know the primary record on the team sheet is the overall record, not the conference record.

You can manipulate the numbers and records any way you want to suit your phony argument. Seton Hall would have been in the field had it not been for an abnormal number of bid stealers. No agenda, no conspiracy. Just plain old bad luck.

How about what we could control? What did we do of note away from the Rock. 4 games against tournament teams all blowouts. 2 games in San Diego against mediocre teams no wins. Blowouts at X and Nova. The only win vs a top 6 big east team on the road was at SJU not even on their home court. And then we got them on their home court they buried us. So that’s 6 games vs the top 6 away from the rock 1 win 5 blowout losses. Respectable losses and we’re probably in.