Hall - Rutgers likely on hold

[SHUisNJsTeam]

Living in past
Who was in tournament this year
We play in a better conference and sell out every game . Dan just said you had a better offer . The fact is SHU operates on a shoestring budget and needs the revenue from game more
Big East is a good conference but nowhere near the gauntlet the Big 10 is . The fact this thread is so long shows the interest just the discussion of the 2 teams brings . No one will care about SU vs Penn State .

You truly are delusional. Why are you here and not over on the nitwit nation board where you belong?

How many times was LRSH in the NCAA’s the past 30 years? The past 10? The past 5? Now answer that for Seton Hall. When was the last time the Big 10 won a national championship (your rare win against Seton Hall doesn’t count, I’m talking real National Championship.) in men’s basketball? How many have they won in the past 5 years? Now answer that for the Big East. The Big 10 is overrated year in and year out which is proven time and time again. That’s not the case with the Big East.

It’s cute how you think Rutgers matters. Truth is, they don’t, never have and never will.

 

[hinson32]

The only reason we played you twice every year in conference was because the Big East forced it. No other team was consistently forced to take the hit to their strength of schedule other than Seton Hall!

What does it say about a person who posts 99% about the topic they say he doesn’t care about? Let’s face it, Rutgers lives in your head rent free. I can’t even remember a non RU post from you? You single handidly keep the rivalry alive.

 

[SHUisNJsTeam]

What does it say about a person who posts 99% about the topic they say he doesn’t care about? Let’s face it, Rutgers lives in your head rent free. I can’t even remember a non RU post from you? You single handidly keep the rivalry alive.

And yet here you are on our board! Another delusional nitwit nation escapee! If you want to take a break from your obsession with trying to convince Seton Hall fans that Rutgers actually matters in anything try taking a look at the other threads I’m on. Maybe you can get your little buddy hbr to help you out. Unlike you two, I’m not on this thread all day every day and I’m not on any other school’s site trying to convince their fans that my team matters. You two can’t say the same thing.

 

[TheHall87]

Living in past
Who was in tournament this year
We play in a better conference and sell out every game . Dan just said you had a better offer . The fact is SHU operates on a shoestring budget and needs the revenue from game more
Big East is a good conference but nowhere near the gauntlet the Big 10 is . The fact this thread is so long shows the interest just the discussion of the 2 teams brings . No one will care about SU vs Penn State .

RU hasn't come close to selling out a non-conference game (other than Seton Hall) in years.

Two years ago other than Seton Hall, your best non-conference attendance (6800) was for the Eugene Omoruyi Appreciation game in Toronto against St. Bonaventure. That game even outdrew Wisconsin at the LBAC by about 500 people.

Excluding SHU in eight other OOC home games that year you broke 6000 once. There's no reason to believe that changes unless the Gavitt Games gifts you with a visit from UConn or Villanova.

 

[hallstorm]

Living in past
Who was in tournament this year
We play in a better conference and sell out every game . Dan just said you had a better offer . The fact is SHU operates on a shoestring budget and needs the revenue from game more
Big East is a good conference but nowhere near the gauntlet the Big 10 is . The fact this thread is so long shows the interest just the discussion of the 2 teams brings . No one will care about SU vs Penn State .

That gauntlet of the Big 10 that lost to a record number of double digit seeds. Nicely done.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Here’s an explanation, Seton Hall doesn’t need the Rutgers game. We can get a much better game to replace it. It’s not like Seton Hall is turning down the opportunity to play UNC or Kansas here. Rutgers is more in the FDU and Rider realm.

Again, Rutgers needs the game, Seton Hall never has.

Wrong, but understandable

RU is financially set, SHU didn't schedule the game and wants it on their terms, because they're not and need the revenue.

It's all good man, just save the SHU is better than RU stuff for the past because that's where that is, in the past.

 

[Shupirate2020]

Living in past
Who was in tournament this year
We play in a better conference and sell out every game . Dan just said you had a better offer . The fact is SHU operates on a shoestring budget and needs the revenue from game more
Big East is a good conference but nowhere near the gauntlet the Big 10 is . The fact this thread is so long shows the interest just the discussion of the 2 teams brings . No one will care about SU vs Penn State .

Ah yes the Big 10 gauntlet which hasn’t won a national championship in over 2 decades and produced 1 (one) sweet 16 team this past year. In case you’re wondering that’s half as many as the Big East produced.
hbr I would like to thank you personally for all the laughs and how hilariously easy you make it to swat aside any of the Rotgers fans claims of basketball superiority. You truly are a treasure to this board.

 

[Seton75]

The bt laid a huge egg in the ncaas.

The bt was a helluva good conference. Maybe they were overrated. But still very good.

 

[STLPirate12]

Living in past
Who was in tournament this year
We play in a better conference and sell out every game . Dan just said you had a better offer . The fact is SHU operates on a shoestring budget and needs the revenue from game more
Big East is a good conference but nowhere near the gauntlet the Big 10 is . The fact this thread is so long shows the interest just the discussion of the 2 teams brings . No one will care about SU vs Penn State .

Last year was the first time the Big 10 was decidedly better than Big East since Rutgers played in AAC, and even that has to be called into question after how badly the Big 10 was exposed as a fraud in the tournament. But even so, 1 year. That's called a fluke, not a trend...just like your tournament bid.

 

[anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0]

Agree on a date?? LMAO, it's hard to agree on a date when you never called to set one....

It was never a "date issue", RU had dates open for days at a time early in the season, but if that's the story, I guess that's what we will go with....the 3 games in 5 day road trip, Wednesday, Friday and Sunday, always take precedent over a home game???

It's all good man, don't get too bent outta shape, RU will survive with another opponent not named SHU. See you in the NCAAs.....

Based on the history of your pathetic program the next time you make it in say 2050? See ya then.

 

[anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0]

Wrong
Seton Hall glory days are gone
We are in Big 10 getting 50 Million Per Year
We need it LOL

You could get 100 million a year from your league and youd still suck, but enjoy the women's crew tournament.

 

[hallsoccer03]

This is all so stupid. Seton hall doesn’t need the Rutgers game, for revenue or any other reason. Seton Hall doesn’t need to win the game and hold up a stupid wooden trophy. Carino wants it to go on because he gets clicks all week leading up to the game. He can print out that stupid top 10 moments in the series article he does every year. The media needs it more than the schools do.

Rutgers doesn’t need the game either. But in their minds they do because they still have to try to prove they are the superior program. The only way they can prove that is by winning this game because they can’t prove it anyway else.

They are still living off a game at the RAC 2 years ago where they played out of their minds and SHU didn’t have their 2 best players for most of the game.

In reality they don’t need this game for their resume, for their revenue or anything else. Pike needs this game for image. He used the stupid trophy SHU let him borrow and paraded it all over campus like it was the Stanley Cup.

He forced players to score meaningless garbage time baskets at the last game at the Rock to make the score look closer than the game really was..... all for the optics.

The optics are more important for Pike than reality. Don’t schedule too tough because no matter if you beat a good team or a bad team, you want the optics of a win against a bad team than a tough loss to a good team. It’s all image and optics, and that’s what is happening here, optics. That and Pike will try his very damn best to not play a road game.

 

[hbr1103]

This is all so stupid. Seton hall doesn’t need the Rutgers game, for revenue or any other reason. Seton Hall doesn’t need to win the game and hold up a stupid wooden trophy. Carino wants it to go on because he gets clicks all week leading up to the game. He can print out that stupid top 10 moments in the series article he does every year. The media needs it more than the schools do.

Rutgers doesn’t need the game either. But in their minds they do because they still have to try to prove they are the superior program. The only way they can prove that is by winning this game because they can’t prove it anyway else.

They are still living off a game at the RAC 2 years ago where they played out of their minds and SHU didn’t have their 2 best players for most of the game.

In reality they don’t need this game for their resume, for their revenue or anything else. Pike needs this game for image. He used the stupid trophy SHU let him borrow and paraded it all over campus like it was the Stanley Cup.

He forced players to score meaningless garbage time baskets at the last game at the Rock to make the score look closer than the game really was..... all for the optics.

The optics are more important for Pike than reality. Don’t schedule too tough because no matter if you beat a good team or a bad team, you want the optics of a win against a bad team than a tough loss to a good team. It’s all image and optics, and that’s what is happening here, optics. That and Pike will try his very damn best to not play a road game.

How about 2017 at RAC where you crumbled in last 5 minutes . We are now the better program as you were many years prior. I can admit you were better but you can’t admit it now . RU finally got it right with Pikiell . The hire portends great things for future but can’t erase disaster program was before he got here . Also this year we beat Syracuse , Md , Illinois , Purdue , Mich State which all were NCAA Teams
You make it seem like we only beat cupcakes
I get it because reality doesn’t fit your narrative

 

[lloyde dobler]

And he keeps coming back for more!

 

[STLPirate12]

How about 2017 at RAC where you crumbled in last 5 minutes . We are now the better program as you were many years prior. I can admit you were better but you can’t admit it now . RU finally got it right with Pikiell . The hire portends great things for future but can’t erase disaster program was before he got here . Also this year we beat Syracuse , Md , Illinois , Purdue , Mich State which all were NCAA Teams
You make it seem like we only beat cupcakes
I get it because reality doesn’t fit your narrative

I bet Northwestern thought they got it right back in 2017 too lol. Maybe beat us at the Rock for the first time since 2013 before claiming to be anywhere near us. But that won't happen because your coach is afraid to play us here. So scared that he's trying to end the series just to avoid it!!

 

[STLPirate12]

Still relevant lol

 

[hallsoccer03]

How about 2017 at RAC where you crumbled in last 5 minutes . We are now the better program as you were many years prior. I can admit you were better but you can’t admit it now . RU finally got it right with Pikiell . The hire portends great things for future but can’t erase disaster program was before he got here . Also this year we beat Syracuse , Md , Illinois , Purdue , Mich State which all were NCAA Teams
You make it seem like we only beat cupcakes
I get it because reality doesn’t fit your narrative

Like I said you guys live off this one game a year. That one game that year is all you have to live off of, who made the tournament that year. One game makes your season, one game is just one game to seton hall.

Rutgers was better one season last year, one crazy ass season, and it’s not like you guys were better by all that much. Rutgers is not the better program, one year doesn’t have that happen. Shu had the better recruiting this year, SHU is the better team no matter who comes back for Rutgers. Rutgers coaching staff lives off raising the intensity of the players, that is their bread and butter but that only gets you so far. And all those teams
You beat that were in the ncaa tournament, how many wins did they have? And yea you only beat cupcakes in the OOC schedule which is what we are talking about, and then your coach bitches and moans when he has to play someone in the acc/big10 or the big East/big10 challenges.

 

[hbr1103]

Like I said you guys live off this one game a year. That one game that year is all you have to live off of, who made the tournament that year. One game makes your season, one game is just one game to seton hall.

Rutgers was better one season last year, one crazy ass season, and it’s not like you guys were better by all that much. Rutgers is not the better program, one year doesn’t have that happen. Shu had the better recruiting this year, SHU is the better team no matter who comes back for Rutgers. Rutgers coaching staff lives off raising the intensity of the players, that is their bread and butter but that only gets you so far. And all those teams
You beat that were in the ncaa tournament, how many wins did they have? And yea you only beat cupcakes in the OOC schedule which is what we are talking about, and then your coach bitches and moans when he has to play someone in the acc/big10 or the big East/big10 challenges.

Geo Baker
Paul Mulcahy
Jaden Jones
Ron Harper
Cliff 0
In
My opinion much better

 

[sami]

Geo Baker
Paul Mulcahy
Jaden Jones
Ron Harper
Cliff 0
In
My opinion much better

Opinions are like assholes, and......… wait, how’s that go?

Just go away already. Maybe if the game is off you’ll actually post on the RU board, not here. Oh, you probably do under whatever handle you have banned here already.

 

[SHUisNJsTeam]

Geo Baker
Paul Mulcahy
Jaden Jones
Ron Harper
Cliff 0
In
My opinion much better

Face fact, you hate us ‘cause you ain’t us! Never will be either. There’s only one team that matters in New Jersey that people follow and care about and that’s Seton Hall. Once you come to terms with that you’ll be much happier.

 

[hallsoccer03]

Geo Baker
Paul Mulcahy
Jaden Jones
Ron Harper
Cliff 0
In
My opinion much better

You are clearly delusional... I’m pretty sure a team is more than 5 players also...

 

[Hallsome]

God I love Rutty fans. You guys may think they are here bugging you in some kind of misguided NJ territory thing, but they are ubiquitous on the internet always stopping by begging for someone to love them.

Laughing my behind off

 

[Hallsome]

You would have lost a fortune this year

Fortune?

 

[HallX2]

Wrong, but understandable

RU is financially set, SHU didn't schedule the game and wants it on their terms, because they're not and need the revenue.

It's all good man, just save the SHU is better than RU stuff for the past because that's where that is, in the past.

The past is back dude.

 

[hbr1103]

The past is back dude.

I will not be dragged into an irrational discussion . We were better this year You guys have been much better in prior years . We will see what the future brings .

All I know is I wouldn’t trade coaches . For all the talent he has brought in to only have 1 NCAA Tournament
Win speaks volumes.

If Big 10 offered UCONN a spot , they would be gone in a second . Nothing else needs to be said about the prestige and comparison of the 2 leagues

 

[STLPirate12]

Look, you're more than welcome to be optimistic about your team, but don't come on to a Seton Hall message board and shove how good you think Rutgers is down our throats and expect to find a bunch of Ra Ra pollyannas. Honestly, here's what I think needs to happen for RU to have a shot at going back to the NCAA's next year:

1. Geo Baker and Ron Harper both need to return
2. Ron Harper needs to return to the shooter he was in November/December and stay that way
3. Cliff O needs to take a TREMENDOUS step forward.

Basically, I see a team that got off to a fast start last year and then spent the last roughly 3 months in complete free fall. If the season was a week or 2 longer, RU's trajectory would've taken them out of the dance. From that team, they lost some key pieces, most notably Myles Johnson, who was a real problem for opponents and will be a challenge to replace. Right now, I don't how they plan to replace those pieces or fix the issues they had January through March when they totaled 1 win against +.500 teams.

Maybe I'm wrong and RU will go back to the tournament next year, and if that's the case good for you guys. But forgive me for not looking at the team the scarlet colored glasses or sugarcoating what I see.

 

[HallBall02]

Geo Baker
Paul Mulcahy
Jaden Jones
Ron Harper
Cliff 0
In
My opinion much better

The 2021-22 Rutgers team will be much better than RU 2020-21 team? - a big negative there.

You guys certainly got worse. No big transfers or high-end HS recruits, and you lost arguably one of your best player to UCLA, 6th man, and maybe two more of your starters. A net negative from last year.

Much better than SHU 2021-22 team? - an even bigger negative there.

While the Hall lost Mamu, big loss for sure. We gained 3 potential starter transfers in Yetna, Harris, Richmond with 3 top 130 recruits for depth. We are certainly a net positive from last year.

Lastly, while RU had the better team last year, it wasn’t a huge difference between Rutgers and Hall, the difference between a bubble team and a double digit seed limping into the tourney isn’t that much.

As far as who is the better program. It’s not even a debate at this point. You needs at least a few years of being the better team to even begin to claim that.

 

[hbr1103]

Look, you're more than welcome to be optimistic about your team, but don't come on to a Seton Hall message board and shove how good you think Rutgers is down our throats and expect to find a bunch of Ra Ra pollyannas. Honestly, here's what I think needs to happen for RU to have a shot at going back to the NCAA's next year:
1. Geo Baker and Ron Harper both need to return
2. Ron Harper needs to return to the shooter he was in November/December and stay that way
3. Cliff O needs to take a TREMENDOUS step forward.

Basically, I see a team that got off to a fast start last year and then spent the last roughly 3 months in complete free fall. If the season was a week or 2 longer, RU's trajectory would've taken them out of the dance. From that team, they lost some key pieces, most notably Myles Johnson, who was a real problem for opponents and will be a challenge to replace. Right now, I don't how they plan to replace those pieces or fix the issues they had January through March when they totaled 1 win against +.500 teams.

Maybe I'm wrong and RU will go back to the tournament next year, and if that's the case good for you guys. But forgive me for not looking at the team the scarlett colored glasses or sugarcoating what I see.

Yes we lose Myles Johnson but would expect Cliff O a top 50 recruit to be more productive
Also Jaden Jones a top recruit will be a key part of rotation
Also I am sure we will bring in another 5 before start of season . If Geo and Ron come back , see a NCAA team .

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

The 2021-22 Rutgers team will be much better than RU 2020-21 team? - a big negative there.

You guys certainly got worse. No big transfers or high-end HS recruits, and you lost arguably one of your best player to UCLA, 6th man, and maybe two more of your starters. A net negative from last year.

Much better than SHU 2021-22 team? - an even bigger negative there.

While the Hall lost Mamu, big loss for sure. We gained 3 potential starter transfers in Yetna, Harris, Richmond with 3 top 130 recruits for depth. We are certainly a net positive from last year.

Lastly, while RU had the better team last year, it wasn’t a huge difference between Rutgers and Hall, the difference between a bubble team and a double digit seed limping into the tourney isn’t that much.

As far as who is the better program. It’s not even a debate at this point. You needs at least a few years of being the better team to even begin to claim that.

All of that would have been solved and possibly true, EXCEPT, SHU decided they couldn't play a home game against the supposedly "not as good RU "....if SHU actually made the NCAAs in the not as good Big East, that would have also been true.....

RU won the head to head and we can likely agree that both were NCAA teams in 2019-20, SHU a higher seed, but I don't think the seedings are a big deal, as Cuse and UCLA proved this year.....seeds 7 through 11 are all kinda in the same range most years.

RU is now either on the right track or they're not. It is possible that RU can be as good or better than SHU going forward or most years. It's not an either or type of thing. Competition is actually good and a healthy debate is too.

The bottom line is that most fans on either side kinda realize that both programs have outgrown the relationship or rivalry. RU has reached a stage of development in the B1G that is new and doesn't rely on the Big East or the past. And SHU has more than enough on it's plate (Nova, UConn, St John's), where Willard clearly doesn't need the extra game or potential loss to RU.

Just using logic, if Kevin Willard, who is kinda authentic and sarcastic at the same time, says that he wasn't a fan of UConn returning to the Big East, it kinda goes along or aligns with that thought process to not want to play RU. Willard and his UConn comments about them re-entering the Big East, is about preservation for what he's built at SHU and UConn returning, doesn't help that.

While RU is not UConn, it is an opponent that can beat SHU home or away. If I were Willard, it's probably the best decision in the interest of SHU and what he has built. It's understandable, once you factor in Mike Anderson and St John's as well.

 

[SHUisNJsTeam]

Yes we lose Myles Johnson but would expect Cliff O a top 50 recruit to be more productive
Also Jaden Jones a top recruit will be a key part of rotation
Also I am sure we will bring in another 5 before start of season . If Geo and Ron come back , see a NCAA team .

You really need to get your eyes checked!

 

[hbr1103]

You really need to get your eyes checked!

I just need glasses because I missed SHU tournament game

 

[HallBall02]

All of that would have been solved and possibly true, EXCEPT, SHU decided they couldn't play a home game against the supposedly "not as good RU "....if SHU actually made the NCAAs in the not as good Big East, that would have also been true.....

RU won the head to head and we can likely agree that both were NCAA teams in 2019-20, SHU a higher seed, but I don't think the seedings are a big deal, as Cuse and UCLA proved this year.....seeds 7 through 11 are all kinda in the same range most years.

RU is now either on the right track or they're not. It is possible that RU can be as good or better than SHU going forward or most years. It's not an either or type of thing. Competition is actually good and a healthy debate is too.

The bottom line is that most fans on either side kinda realize that both programs have outgrown the relationship or rivalry. RU has reached a stage of development in the B1G that is new and doesn't rely on the Big East or the past. And SHU has more than enough on it's plate (Nova, UConn, St John's), where Willard clearly doesn't need the extra game or potential loss to RU.

Just using logic, if Kevin Willard, who is kinda authentic and sarcastic at the same time, says that he wasn't a fan of UConn returning to the Big East, it kinda goes along or aligns with that thought process to not want to play RU. Willard and his UConn comments about them re-entering the Big East, is about preservation for what he's built at SHU and UConn returning, doesn't help that.

While RU is not UConn, it is an opponent that can beat SHU home or away. If I were Willard, it's probably the best decision in the interest of SHU and what he has built. It's understandable, once you factor in Mike Anderson and St John's as well.

Haha, what? We are worried about St. John’s? I don’t understand the St. John’s Mike Anderson talk. There are a lot of big East teams that seton hall will have a tougher time with than the johnies.

Getting back to RU. RU had one year in like 30 that you were legitimately better than SHU and barely at that. Head to head matchups are just one small component to this, better indicators are NET, Old RPI, kenpom, etc correct? How many years in last 30 has RU been the better team using those as the metrics? Even with the supped up rankings heavily artificially swayed to Big Ten Conf teams especially the bad teams in Conf, you still only had 1 year where you ended up better, in an asterisk covid year too!

For example just bc you lost to Nebraska by 20 POINTS last year I still think you guys were better than Nebraska. Just bc your team lost @ Penn St and we beat @Penn St (as the only team we can judge apple to apples) we can still say RU had the better overall team last year right? See how that works?


Our 2019-20 year while true we lost @ RU, SHU was still vastly superior to RU. That squad had many pundits legitimately thinking we had a final four run in us and could easily been top 15 and a 3 seed at the end of the day.

Also our two best players were injured or played hurt and somehow RU fans forget that. You put those two 19-20 teams on a neutral court we win 8 out of 10, easily.

As far as SHU being scared of playing RU last year? You can’t be serious since we play multiple tougher teams out of conference than RU every year, where Seton Hall is usually your toughest OOC or one of toughest OOC games.

We are scared of RU at home but not scared to play neutral or away games vs Baylor, Oregon, or Gonzaga? The argument doesn’t make sense. It has nothing to do with fear of Rutgers, which I don’t think any high major or even midmajor team would or should be fearful of.

 

[HallBall02]

Yes we lose Myles Johnson but would expect Cliff O a top 50 recruit to be more productive
Also Jaden Jones a top recruit will be a key part of rotation
Also I am sure we will bring in another 5 before start of season . If Geo and Ron come back , see a NCAA team .

Lots of ifs there buddy.

If cliff O who didn’t play well last year plays to his HS rankings.

If a HS player in Jones in a covid end of HS is somehow ready to play big rotation minutes in a NCAA that will have player much older stronger than normal (with extra year eligibility).

If both Geo and if Harper both return

If Harper gets back to his Nov/Dec shooting form.

If RU picks up another 5 before the start of the season (my guess is it’s slim pickings at this point for an impact 5 to be brought in now 🤣)


Lots of IFs man. Personally, I think last years RU’s team will be better. The only advantage RU has this year over last year’s team is the 6th man meaning a better home court with fans packed in a small cozy arena.

 

[dehere23]

Here's the bottom line.

The game was tentatively scheduled for Dec 6 with no formal agreement. Before the verbal agreement could be solidified SHU received a better offer from Penn State. A H/H with the first game to be played at Penn State Dec 6 with no fans and the return date this coming season with fans.

I have absolutely no issue with what SHU did. But they should have communicated better with RU to make them aware of the Penn State agreement. That's where the hard feelings between the two schools began. The nonsense of SHU fearing to play Rutgers is just that, nonsense.

This could have all been settled amicably if SHU reached out sooner to Rutgers to make them aware of the Penn State deal.

Serious question - why is us getting a home game with Penn State such a good deal (or a better deal). In their best year PSU is a middle of the road Big 10 program and usually worse than that.

 

[Halldan1]

2 games against a power 6 team. At their place with no fans and at our place with a probable full house.

As opposed to playing Rutgers at home with no fans.

 

[SHUisNJsTeam]

I just need glasses because I missed SHU tournament game

Rutgers appearance in the NCAA’s...blink and you miss it!

 

[STLPirate12]

Yes we lose Myles Johnson but would expect Cliff O a top 50 recruit to be more productive
Also Jaden Jones a top recruit will be a key part of rotation
Also I am sure we will bring in another 5 before start of season . If Geo and Ron come back , see a NCAA team .

Depends which Harper comes back. If it's the one that can't buy a 3, bottom 3rd of the Big 10 looks more likely than NCAA tournament.

Plus Cliff and Jones are gonna need a lot more than your typical year 1 to year 2 progression to replace what you lost.

 

[hbr1103]

Rutgers appearance in the NCAA’s...blink and you miss it!

Beat Clemson

 

[STLPirate12]

Serious question - why is us getting a home game with Penn State such a good deal (or a better deal). In their best year PSU is a middle of the road Big 10 program and usually worse than that.

They did beat Rutgers lol

 

[SHUisNJsTeam]

Serious question - why is us getting a home game with Penn State such a good deal (or a better deal). In their best year PSU is a middle of the road Big 10 program and usually worse than that.

And Rutgers is typically worse than that.