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Happy Thanksgiving to all our Canadian Brothers and Sisters

NYShoreGuy

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Jan 7, 2006
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And here we are in the states observing a day for a foreign navigator and explorer who was nothing more than a hired gun for another country....if there was a day of observance to punt off the calendar and cancel it would be today
 
He’s just angry because no one watched the NBA playoffs...
Hall85 back and worse than ever on a monday morning, before you pass judgements let's see what game 6 and nfl snf had to show for
 
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I am
And here we are in the states observing a day for a foreign navigator and explorer who was nothing more than a hired gun for another country....if there was a day of observance to punt off the calendar and cancel it would be today
I am always confused by this attitude towards Columbus Day. Btw, we are not even sure if he was Italian or Spanish since there is no record of him speaking or writing in Italian and only Spanish. Columbus started the era of the new world which quickly was folllowed by the Conquistadors from Spain that defeated the mighty Aztecs, Mayan and Inca empires. While some native tribes to this hemisphere were peaceful, the majority were a warring people especially the Aztecs who taxed, killed and enslaved their neighboring tribes.

The world in 1492 was a different place and should not be judged by today’s standards. Every major empire conquered another population by force, whether it was the Ming Dynasty, the Egyptians, the Greeks ñ, the Romans, the Spaniards or the English. Cortez conquered Mexico with 600 men. Quite a feat militarily. Yes we need to recognize that atrocities took place in North and South America. But, this is what led to our country now.

I believe that we should honor Columbus and those conquistadors that followed. Do we not revere Alexander the Great, Caesar and other great conquerors Why is this hatred for Cristobol Colon?
 
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I am always confused by this attitude towards Columbus Day. Btw, we are not even sure if he was Italian or Spanish since there is no record of him speaking or writing in Italian and only Spanish. Columbus started the era of the new world which quickly was folllowed by the Conquistadors from Spain that defeated the mighty Aztecs, Mayan and Inca empires. While some native tribes to this hemisphere were peaceful, the majority were a warring people especially the Aztecs who taxed, killed and enslaved their neighboring tribes.

The world in 1492 was a different place and should not be judged by today’s standards. Every major empire conquered another population by force, whether it was the Ming Dynasty, the Egyptians, the Greeks ñ, the Romans, the Spaniards or the English. Cortez conquered Mexico with 600 men. Quite a feat militarily. Yes we need to recognize that atrocities took place in North and South America. But, this is what led to our country now.

I believe that we should honor Columbus and those conquistadors that followed. Do we not revere Alexander the Great, Caesar and other great conquerors Why is this hatred for Cristobol Colon?
have you ever read the Books 1491 and 1493 by charles mann?

separately im on board getting rid of columbus day. for a number of reasons.
 
Nope I have not. But read a lot about the conquest of the New World. I understand that Columbus was eventually arrested by the crown of Spain for some of the atrocities he committed. However, he was eventually set free. He set forth the European age of coming to the new world in which this country was born from that movement. It’s a crucially important day for the formation of the Western Hemisphere and of the world.

You are going to say that Columbus never set foot in the US. But, others followed quickly like Ponce De Leon who established the first permanent city in the US at St Augustine, Florida. Then followed by the English in Jamestown. It is the start of our country and with all the warts and all it should be honored
 
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Nope I have not. But read a lot about the conquest of the New World. I understand that Columbus was eventually arrested by the crown of Spain for some of the atrocities he committed. However, he was eventually set free. He set forth the European age of coming to the new world in which this country was born from that movement. It’s a crucially important day for the formation of the Western Hemisphere and of the world.

You are going to say that Columbus never set foot in the US. But, others followed quickly like Ponce De Leon who established the first permanent city in the US at St Augustine, Florida. Then followed by the English in Jamestown. It is the start of our country and with all the warts and all it should be honored
America named after an Italian, Amerigo Vespucci
 
Nope I have not. But read a lot about the conquest of the New World. I understand that Columbus was eventually arrested by the crown of Spain for some of the atrocities he committed. However, he was eventually set free. He set forth the European age of coming to the new world in which this country was born from that movement. It’s a crucially important day for the formation of the Western Hemisphere and of the world.

You are going to say that Columbus never set foot in the US. But, others followed quickly like Ponce De Leon who established the first permanent city in the US at St Augustine, Florida. Then followed by the English in Jamestown. It is the start of our country and with all the warts and all it should be honored
you should read them. sounds like you would like them. could be a nice xmas gift! and im not disagreeing with anything youre saying. these books are focused on the pre and post columbus trip. the impact was focused much more so in south and central america for the bulk of it.

Amazon product ASIN 1400032059
Amazon product ASIN 0307278247
(books are OK to buy on amazon, that was its first intent before it wanted to take over the world. if you can find them somehwere else then even better. )
 
America named after an Italian, Amerigo Vespucci

Last year my wife and I wandered into a beautiful small church in Florence, Italy down by the Arno river.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ognissanti,_Florence

Amerigo is buried in that church.

With further research we discovered that Sandro Botticelli and Simonetta Vespucci are alos buried there. Simonetta, the inspiration for Botticelli's famed painting "Venus and Mars", was married to Amerigo's cousin Marco. The inspiration for Mars was Giuliano de' Medici, who was having an affair with Simonetta. The Medici's were patrons of Botticelli.

Small world.

Who knew.


PS: Put a visit to Florence on your bucket list!
 
Last year my wife and I wandered into a beautiful small church in Florence, Italy down by the Arno river.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ognissanti,_Florence

Amerigo is buried in that church.

With further research we discovered that Sandro Botticelli and Simonetta Vespucci are alos buried there. Simonetta, the inspiration for Botticelli's famed painting "Venus and Mars", was married to Amerigo's cousin Marco. The inspiration for Mars was Giuliano de' Medici, who was having an affair with Simonetta. The Medici's were patrons of Botticelli.

Small world.

Who knew.


PS: Put a visit to Florence on your bucket list!
Florence is a gem and a must see is Basilica of Santa Croce...buried in tombs there are the likes of Machiavelli, Galileo, Michelangelo and Rossini to name just a few. We spent a week there several years ago and used it as home base as well for some day trips into some other neat places in Tuscany.
 
Florence is a gem and a must see is Basilica of Santa Croce...buried in tombs there are the likes of Machiavelli, Galileo, Michelangelo and Rossini to name just a few. We spent a week there several years ago and used it as home base as well for some day trips into some other neat places in Tuscany.
Love Florence for so many things. Been there twice and want to go again. One of the gems not talked about in Florence is the Medici Chapel. Michelangelo was responsible for the marble, wall design, tombs and stunning art on the ceiling. I think it is one of the most beautiful, underrated spots in Florence.
 
Love Florence for so many things. Been there twice and want to go again. One of the gems not talked about in Florence is the Medici Chapel. Michelangelo was responsible for the marble, wall design, tombs and stunning art on the ceiling. I think it is one of the most beautiful, underrated spots in Florence.
Yup another great site to see. The history of that city is incredible. Another beautiful feature is that it is only 30 to 45 minutes to some great vineyards in the Chianti region. We happen to Buon the Verrazano Vineyard - yes the family whose descendants the bridge was named after. Great experience....tour, dinner, pairings.
 


lose me with that "it was a different time" shit. The atrocities that piece of shit committed are not akin to something like John Wayne dropping some racial slurs.
this is also kinda BS. its actually more correct to call them indians and its been documented they would rather be called indians. they identify with it. i dont advocate for columbus but indians also owned slaves and committed acts of atrocities. Spaniards just had guns and disease.

it is my belief that most indian descendants simply dont know enough to weigh in on the ancestry other than the main points. none of it was written pre columbus. only researchers, anthropologist, archeologist, etc can convey the most true depiction.

none of those people in that video come across as educated on the subject and use general statements without any details. one guy even equated him to hitler. come on. "christopher columbus didnt discover anything" LOL. columbus did things that were sick, well so did indians. eventually this land would be colonized. hell just a bit south there were cities that were grander than those in egypt, before they were in egypt. north american indians didnt have modern medicine, disease was likely going to happen at some point. a lot of times the settlers and explorers were welcomed to provide weapons the indians could use against other tribes. spaniards were helped by natives to overthrow the aztecs. again i dont condone columbus but there is a huge misconception regarding what it was like during that time.

on a completely different note its also a misconception that indians did not harm the earth. they did their own share of terraforming and changing the land to try and fit their needs (sometimes it was completely religion based). they did not live as lightly as some expect.

is that video supposed to be proof of anything? screams of lazy slacktivism and again i do not think we should have columbus day.
 
Consider the source. He has never posted anything intelligent on any non-basketball topic.
 


lose me with that "it was a different time" shit. The atrocities that piece of shit committed are not akin to something like John Wayne dropping some racial slurs.
This video is a joke. First, these are native Americans whose ancestors did not suffer at the hands of Columbus. The only native Americans that encountered Columbus were the Taino Indians in Puerto Rico. Most of the Taino Indians died because of disease not because of a systematic killing by Columbus or the Spaniards. Disease is not genocide. The Native Americans in the eastern part of the country were taken by the English and by the United States of America. Their gripe is with the US government with the numerous battles and wars that were fought. Andrew Jackson ordered the removal of the Seminoles out of Florida. There was constant warfare going on between the Indians and early colonists and then the US Government. The peaceful Indian is really a myth.

However, these people feel the pain of Columbus? Come on. That is what happens in war. The victor goes the spoils especially with land. It has happened since the dawn of time. What about rival Indian tribes warring against each other? what about the land taking there? Or the atrocities that took place then? IS that excused? Similarly, the atrocities that the Aztecs committed when they took over land of their neighboring tribes. IS that somehow excused because the Aztecs ran into the Spaniards who were able to beat them?

So Bobby Solo, I guess you would have just preferred your ancestors stay in whatever country they came from rather than come to the new world? The natives should have been left alone to themselves.
 
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This video is a joke. First, these are native Americans whose ancestors did not suffer at the hands of Columbus. The only native Americans that encountered Columbus were the Taino Indians in Puerto Rico. The Native Americans in the eastern part of the country were taken by the English and by the United States of America. Their gripe is with the US government with the numerous battles and wars that were fought. Andrew Jackson ordered the removal of the Seminoles out of Florida. There was constant warfare going on between the Indians and early colonists and then the US Government. The peaceful Indian is really a myth.

However, these people feel the pain of Columbus? Come on. That is what happens in war. The victor goes the spoils especially with land. It has happened since the dawn of time. What about rival Indian tribes warring against each other? what about the land taking there? Or the atrocities that took place then? IS that excused? Similarly, the atrocities that the Aztecs committed when they took over land of their neighboring tribes. IS that somehow excused because the Aztecs ran into the Spaniards who were able to beat them?

So Bobby Solo, I guess you would have just preferred your ancestors stay in whatever country they came from rather than come to the new world? The natives should have been left alone to themselves.
i think theyre saying columbus set the tone for taking advantage of indians? idk horrible video. slacktivism. but youre right these people should not be acting this way over columbus. do they even know which one of their ancestors were around in 1830s? the south is really where they got dicked over.
 
i suppose hes saying have the holiday named after him
Well, there is a lot of controversy surrounding the validity of whether Vespucci actually navigated where he claimed to have navigated. Clearly, Vespucci has not had the glare of the spotlight for centuries as did Columbus. But Columbus’ feat cannot be denied for changing world events. That is why he should be honored. I think that would be a terrible idea.
 
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Florence is a gem and a must see is Basilica of Santa Croce

About a 18 minute walk from the Chiesa di San Salvatore di Ognissanti.

https://tinyurl.com/y2nn3j5t

I checked out some of the photos of it. Quite beautiful. We are going back at some point and we will put that on the agenda.

One of the gems not talked about in Florence is the Medici Chapel.

I see that is right around the corner from the Medici Palace. I guess they had an easy walk to church on Sundays. We will put the Chapel on our list also. I looked at some of the pictures. Amazing and beautiful.
 
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