HIP, HIP, HOORAY
- Thread starter Muggsy Blue
- Start date
A disappointing result for New Jersey, but we knew this would happen. NJ can't get out of its own way.
Me too, first thing I thought of when I got home and saw the numbers. Seems to be widening a bit now, but a surprisingly strong run by Kim. Just not enough in the end. Too much to overcome.
I voted Green Party here, but great news nonetheless. I won’t say for sure that VA is a bellweather, but I sure hope so.
De Blasio’s speech right now is great. His checklist of goals is a bit lofty but would be a fantastic set of things for the middle class and poor of the city.
Virginia has trended strongly towards the Democratic party ever since Obama won it in 2008. Changing demographics in the DC suburbs.
Interestingly enough, its western neighbor has trended just as heavily towards the GOP over the last 10-15 years.
Interestingly enough, its western neighbor has trended just as heavily towards the GOP over the last 10-15 years.
In the NSL editorial on the Governor's race 2 weeks ago they noted that both were poor choices and regardless of who won "New Jersey deserves better". I agreed with their view. Both were poor candidates.
PS: They did endorse Murphy as the better of the two despite their reservations.
Tom K
PS: They did endorse Murphy as the better of the two despite their reservations.
Tom K
Well his plan is to raise taxes on the wealthiest. If they decide to head to PA, FL, AZ or any other place with lower taxes, his plans go into the crapper. And if he raises the minimum wage, you are going to see technology take over for people. Every mom and pop restaurant is going to be like panera where you can enter your order into a kiosk. Technology never calls out sick and can work a 24 hour shift 7 days a week.
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Which is something I am okay with, but I'm curious to see how he's going to handle people driving with pot in their system?
NJ is certainly no bellwether, any democrap would have won easily.
VA certainly may be, democrap won by 3 points more than Trump won by, a harbinger of things to come in 2018. Republicants will lose House seats, but enough to swing?? Senate is different, Republicants appear to be OK there, could pick up a seat or two.
VA certainly may be, democrap won by 3 points more than Trump won by, a harbinger of things to come in 2018. Republicants will lose House seats, but enough to swing?? Senate is different, Republicants appear to be OK there, could pick up a seat or two.
I find it funny people saying they are going to move to PA or some other state due to state income taxes. State income taxes in NJ is really not the big issue in this state. The big tax issue in this state is property taxes. With over 500 municipalities and a custom of “home rule” is the biggest problem with NJ. However, no politician from either party has any answers or the political will to tackle this issue which would probably need a Constitutional overhaul.
No politician has been willing to cut government spending once in office. At some point it might be worth a try.
Our decision to move to PA was made prior to any of these proposed tax changes. You're right, property taxes are the biggest incentive. For us it's a financial and quality of life decision. If what is proposed goes through it just makes the financial part more attractive. Politics in PA is far from perfect but it looks like utopia compared to what is happening in this state.
NJ is the fifth highest in state taxes. If you have $150k in NJ taxable income and you are married filing jointly you will pay about $7,500 in state taxes. Vs. Florida or Texas where you pay $0. That is a big difference. If you go to PA you will pay $4,600 close to $3,000 less. Then you add in the ridiculous property taxes in NJ with the high state taxes and it's a very high cost of living state. It all matters. It's not a big issue for you maybe but for me it sure is. $3,000 a year for 10 years is $30k.
The last thing Democrats want is unhappy republicans moving from NJ to PA or FL. Turning swing states Republican would hurt.
Here is an interesting article from Moran. http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2017/11/taxes_or_broken_promises_murphy_makes_me_nervous_m.html
We have elected someone we know very little about but he wasn't tied to Chris Christie. I get the Christie hate because he deserves it. But again the candidates were subpar and now we have someone in who has never governed at any level and who has a very expensive agenda for a state that does not have the money.
We have elected someone we know very little about but he wasn't tied to Chris Christie. I get the Christie hate because he deserves it. But again the candidates were subpar and now we have someone in who has never governed at any level and who has a very expensive agenda for a state that does not have the money.
From the dim bulb who "happily" pays her taxes. The man of the house must do pretty well.
Purely because of people like you, I can laugh about Trump being President. Maybe he'll get eight years.
They'll gladly pay higher NJ democrap taxes but cry foul when they can't deduct them from their federal taxes when their anger should be directed at their home state. (I'm looking at you too cern, LOL!!!)
I'm not really against getting rid of the deduction. My only concerns would be the impact to the middle class (ensuring they do not pay more taxes) as well as the impact to real estate markets. The way Trump would be getting rid of it does appear pretty fair by increasing the standard deduction, but getting a mortgage interest and state tax deduction is an incentive for home ownership. Placing incentives for home ownership helps our economy overall. I think there may be some room to meet in the middle there though like an increase in the standard deduction and an additional deduction of x% of property taxes to be phased out over time.
You are talking about the state tax deduction, I was keeping in in context.
Geez... I even try to give Trump credit.
Lunch
No I’m not, I’m talking about wider income bands per federal tax rate.
It’s all related and relevant. Expand the tax base, decrease effective tax rates.
The post I was replying to mentioned none of that since you were talking about state taxes, but we can go on on the impacts of the proposed tax bill.
Change in income brackets - Good
Increase in standard deductions - Good
Loss of state tax deduction - Bad
Loss of personal exemptions - Bad
Decrease in the 401k cap - Bad
Married, 2 kids one income - Fairly middle class - These changes would likely be an increase in my effective tax rate.
There will be winners and losers no matter what the change.
Simplifying the tax code and reducing the average effective rate would be a good thing.
I don't think the government should be engineering the economy with deductions. Let economic forces do that.
Simplifying the tax code and reducing the average effective rate would be a good thing.
I don't think the government should be engineering the economy with deductions. Let economic forces do that.
Of course there will be winners and losers, but you also need to manage the impact on the economy.
I am not against lowering the top rates, but only when our economy shows that is warranted because the middle class is growing and getting wealthier.
Currently taking money from the middle class families after years of low wage growth so the wealthy can get a fairly significant tax break would be a really poor decision in my opinion. We're in a period of massive economic growth that has not helped the middle class much at all.
For the most part I would tend to agree with that. The state tax deduction is a good example.
While it's intention is not not penalize people for money they earn but cannot spend... it encourages states to increase taxes since homeowners will not have to pay the full price of the increase. a $1 increase means you really only have to pay $0.75 of the increase assuming you're in the 25% bracket.
My concern is that my (and the millions of people in similar situations) would see a tax increase and will be putting less money back into the economy.
If you give a millionaire another 50k per year, they will not change their spending for next year. None of that tax break goes back into the economy.
The more the middle class has, the more they spend which helps our economy grow.
Just computed what my 2016 taxes would have been under the proposed House and Senate plans, and my taxes would have gone up around $1,300. Not good. The wider income bands per tax rate were/are not enough to cover losing the personal exemptions.
Increasing the standard deduction but losing the personal exemption is a killer for me.
Increasing the standard deduction but losing the personal exemption is a killer for me.
Yep, I ended up in a similar spot.
My interest and tax deduction is about 24k so close enough to the standard deduction, but I would lose personal exemptions totaling $16,200.
It looks like the senate wants to double the child tax credit which would help offset the increase in taxable income for me though. Could end up being closer to a wash.
I estimated my taxes using the House bill and depending on a few things my taxes would stay relatively the same (within about $2,000 up or down) and my accountant agreed with me. Losing the AMT is what helped me the most. I am probably considered upper middle class although my friends would differ with that assessment in so many ways - lol.
The Estate tax is double taxation I believe and removing it is the right thing to do but I'm not sure the country can afford it. Should be reduced but come into play at a very high level like for estates $25M or more.
Getting rid of most of the deductions will simplify the tax code but it will hurt high tax states like NJ, NY, Conn and CA for sure. Not so sure it will hurt RE markets outside of the high tax states. High tax states need to get their shit in order and if this doesn't do it nothing will.
My accountant (even though I am a nonpracticing accountant) has estimated many of his clients taxes under the House bill and he is saying most, not all of his middle class customers are getting a tax break of around $1,000 - $1,500 depending on their situations. His more wealthy clients are not seeing anything significant and some are paying more. That is his initial assessment. He says you have to do the math to really evaluate the bill obviously and many don't do it.
What is not occuring is our government continues to talk about redoing the tax bill but Congress and Senate keep spending. That is a huge problem no matter how this all falls out.
The Estate tax is double taxation I believe and removing it is the right thing to do but I'm not sure the country can afford it. Should be reduced but come into play at a very high level like for estates $25M or more.
Getting rid of most of the deductions will simplify the tax code but it will hurt high tax states like NJ, NY, Conn and CA for sure. Not so sure it will hurt RE markets outside of the high tax states. High tax states need to get their shit in order and if this doesn't do it nothing will.
My accountant (even though I am a nonpracticing accountant) has estimated many of his clients taxes under the House bill and he is saying most, not all of his middle class customers are getting a tax break of around $1,000 - $1,500 depending on their situations. His more wealthy clients are not seeing anything significant and some are paying more. That is his initial assessment. He says you have to do the math to really evaluate the bill obviously and many don't do it.
What is not occuring is our government continues to talk about redoing the tax bill but Congress and Senate keep spending. That is a huge problem no matter how this all falls out.
I think if you run the numbers you will come out ahead.
The $8K lost deduction should be more than offset by the brackets and tax rate.
I'm just trying to look out for you buddy.
Here is an on-line calculator. It does not agree with my numbers but is close.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-new-trump-tax-calculator-what-do-you-owe-2017-10-26
If you compare these results with the current tax tables, I am seeing less taxes for taxable incomes of $100-200K taxable income range. I did not go outside that range.
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