Nothing is ever guaranteed, but if the NCAA Tournament played out last season the Pirates had final 8 talent and most likely that's where they would have ended their season.
Inbounds or out of bounds
Inbounds or out of bounds
Inbounds/Out of bounds - 2019/20 Pirates
- Thread starter Halldan1
- Start date
Inbounds. I honestly feel you guys has Final Four potential. Of course, a lot would be dictated by the draw and seeding, but when the Pirates played well you were capable of beating anyone.
inbounds. we had a legit shot to make the final 4.
We had shot blockers, depth, myles powell...if we had a top 4 seed we would have had home court in Albany and then i think MSG.
Going into Big E , we would have smoked Marq, creighton lost their best player, only team that could have beat us in big east was Nova on other side of bracket, we would have been a high seed going into tourney, my guess a 3, 2 if we won the big east.
Covid killed a dream season, only Dayton and SDST probably had it worse than us.
We had shot blockers, depth, myles powell...if we had a top 4 seed we would have had home court in Albany and then i think MSG.
Going into Big E , we would have smoked Marq, creighton lost their best player, only team that could have beat us in big east was Nova on other side of bracket, we would have been a high seed going into tourney, my guess a 3, 2 if we won the big east.
Covid killed a dream season, only Dayton and SDST probably had it worse than us.
Inbounds definitely . I thought Elite Eight was realistic and if things broke right there was a chance to get to the final four. The development and growth by Gill and Rhoden and Mamu plus McKnight and of course Powell made us a very dangerous team to play.
Inbounds. No one really knows how they would have done but we had some things that really help a team make a big run in the tourney. Our defense was playing well. In addition to Myles Powell an All American we had the shot blocker who could also score down low and was doing it consistently. Mamu was starting to take games over and really blossoming. We had a solid bench that was entering the game and helping us like Shavar and even Ike gave us some good minutes. We had the do everything guy in Rhoden who seemed to get the huge rebound when we needed it or score 4-6 points in a row to right the ship. This team also had the one thing that is critical which is senior leadership from Q and Powell and they did not ever give up. That is a team that can make some noise in the tournament and if the seedings were favorable final four was possible IMO.
We had the talent, but we were not playing well at the end. I was not as bullish as most Pirate fans were re the post season. Not being able to put away Nova at home, then getting blown out at CU in the second half were very concerning to me and made me fear we were spent. Maybe getting away from the BE would free Myles like so many thought. I thought we may be upset prone. I am straddling the line on this one.
Feel the same way. Concussion of knee; Myles was not completely back. Thought we had a good shot at sweet 16, but gun to my head elite 8 was 25/75.
Inbounds - the only thing Willard has yet to do is perform in March and it’s a shame because last year Seton Hall would have definitely made the Sweet 16, imo with a good chance of advancing further. I truly believe we would have made the elite 8.
Inbounds.
Going into the BET I figured the team would get to the Elite Eight on their own strength, and it would just depend on the luck of who we were playing in that round to determine whether we could possibly get into the Final Four. Of course, anything could have happened. We could have had another second round heartbreak, but I doubt it. The team was solid and well rounded enough to survive the first weekend. They weren't afraid of any team and could compete with anyone. That would see them through. The round of eight seemed very likely at the time, and nothing since has changed my mind.
I thought we would have made the BET final as well, though I was hesitant to say we'd win the whole thing - Providence was playing very well at the end, and I think it would have been a tough matchup.
Going into the BET I figured the team would get to the Elite Eight on their own strength, and it would just depend on the luck of who we were playing in that round to determine whether we could possibly get into the Final Four. Of course, anything could have happened. We could have had another second round heartbreak, but I doubt it. The team was solid and well rounded enough to survive the first weekend. They weren't afraid of any team and could compete with anyone. That would see them through. The round of eight seemed very likely at the time, and nothing since has changed my mind.
I thought we would have made the BET final as well, though I was hesitant to say we'd win the whole thing - Providence was playing very well at the end, and I think it would have been a tough matchup.
very easy for people to say inbounds and feel good.
i say out of bounds. we were trending down, we lost 2 outright chances to win the Big East. Myles was completely dogged by the end and im not sure the schedule of postseason tournaments really help that.
at that time we had 3 major advantages. big time advantages that were actually turned around into disadvantages. somehow. 1) powell 2) Ro 3) defense
Powell got double and triple teamed. we often had no answer for the high pressure myles recieved... game after game same thing. the only breakthrough was the Pick n Ro. thats great, take out one guy the defense has to sacrifice another... well somehow they also took away the pick n roll, and powell, without any counter punches. when you have advantages like that you force the defense to pick their poison. somehow willard let teams make our advantages our disadvantages. any tournament team would have followed the playbook to guard us.
lastly, our bread and butter defense turned into knife through hot butter. letting guys to thr rim at ease.
i have no idea how a good coach, amazing talent, and some pretty big advantages were turned into the playbook to beat us.
i was very hopeful the tournament would snap us into shape but based on the way we were playing elite 8 was way out of bounds. in fact id put my money on losing first round before elite 8 at that time.
i say out of bounds. we were trending down, we lost 2 outright chances to win the Big East. Myles was completely dogged by the end and im not sure the schedule of postseason tournaments really help that.
at that time we had 3 major advantages. big time advantages that were actually turned around into disadvantages. somehow. 1) powell 2) Ro 3) defense
Powell got double and triple teamed. we often had no answer for the high pressure myles recieved... game after game same thing. the only breakthrough was the Pick n Ro. thats great, take out one guy the defense has to sacrifice another... well somehow they also took away the pick n roll, and powell, without any counter punches. when you have advantages like that you force the defense to pick their poison. somehow willard let teams make our advantages our disadvantages. any tournament team would have followed the playbook to guard us.
lastly, our bread and butter defense turned into knife through hot butter. letting guys to thr rim at ease.
i have no idea how a good coach, amazing talent, and some pretty big advantages were turned into the playbook to beat us.
i was very hopeful the tournament would snap us into shape but based on the way we were playing elite 8 was way out of bounds. in fact id put my money on losing first round before elite 8 at that time.
Winning games in the post season takes another level of desire I haven’t seen from SHU teams in a long time. Out of bounds until proven otherwise.
SHU had all the answers. Height, defense, an All American 2G who could take over at game's end, depth and most importantly getting away from teams that know you as well as you know yourself.
Leaving conference play along with all the assets at the disposal of Willard leads me to believe this particular team would have reached the final 8 before falling.
Leaving conference play along with all the assets at the disposal of Willard leads me to believe this particular team would have reached the final 8 before falling.
I generally agree. We did not play well against Villanova and were awful against Creighton down the stretch. I believe we would have lost to Marquette in the first round of the BET and been knocked down to a 4 seed in the NCAA's. From there we would have been dangerous as I do believe getting out of the Big East would have been a good thing. But I do believe the team peaked too early and it was the win at Villanova in February.
as i said those answers turned into questions. if ncaa tournament opponents didnt scout wed have a lot better record in the postseason.
defending us was very simple towards the end.
Could is the big word here because anything could have happened.
I will say inbounds because sure we could have gone to the Elite Eight or further. It's not that hard to envision last year's team, freed from the burden of familiarity with fellow Big East teams, going on a run against teams that have only seen us on video and not in games simply because we had the superior talent. Heck, we could have won a national championship.
Would we have done any of those things? Entirely different question.
I will say inbounds because sure we could have gone to the Elite Eight or further. It's not that hard to envision last year's team, freed from the burden of familiarity with fellow Big East teams, going on a run against teams that have only seen us on video and not in games simply because we had the superior talent. Heck, we could have won a national championship.
Would we have done any of those things? Entirely different question.
There is no substitute for playing against. Scouting is fine but then you have to take that on the court.
Remember what Mike Tyson used to say? "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."
We beat Marq both times last year, had McKnight to play well against their best player. Had Gill domimating in the paint. Also playing at MSG. Why do you think we would have lost to Marq? I bet if you did an honest poll with Marq fans they would mostly say they would have lost to Hall.
In-bounds as in it's within the realm of possibility, but I think the second weekend was the least likely time for that team to be sent home. They were either going to crash and burn early (didn't finish strong, Powell still wasn't looking like himself) or go on a tear (getting out of the Big East opens things up for Powell, everything else clicks from there). Obviously an elite 8 opponent would be very strong, but if the Hall got that far I think it would mean they're rolling at a pace very few teams could slow down.
People might be overlooking the fact that although we failed to close out the regular season on a strong note, Villanova and Creighton(minus the big injury) were also strong candidates for the Elite Eight. Losing to them back to back and failing to wrap up sole possession of the Big East season title was disappointing- especially since the season was cut short - but those teams were no slouches. It wasn't Nova's best team in recent seasons, but they were still potent. Creighton just had our number(didn't Syracuse beat us three times the season we got to the final?) and without the injury they would have gone far.
I wouldn't take those two losses as evidence we would be punching out of the tournament early. We would not have played a team at Nova's or Creighton's level until the third round....possibly later if there were some upsets in our bracket.
I wouldn't take those two losses as evidence we would be punching out of the tournament early. We would not have played a team at Nova's or Creighton's level until the third round....possibly later if there were some upsets in our bracket.
I feel Howard and Marquette would have been fired up to beat us after losing twice. I just think we weren't playing well heading into that game and a bit overconfident in our inflated #8 AP ranking at the time.
by the end of the season we were the ones getting punched in the mouth. whats our excuse, didnt we play against the other teams earlier in the season?
our tournament history has us getting punched in the mouth. remember gonzaga? wofford? are we also not facing a team we havent played before?
its all relative, i dont think your reasoning holds up
it seems like you dont want to accept out of bounds as a possibility? i gave the most context and analysis to support my answer.
Inbounds, with potential for more. One advantage we would have had is unfamiliarity...whereas BE teams knew us up and down, teams around the country didn't. Sure, there is film, etc., but it is not the same as playing someone twice every year. You know tendencies, traits, etc., that other teams would not know.
Now, match ups are of course paramount in the Tourney, so that could/would impact this, but all things being equal, definitely inbounds to me
haha this question was clearly designed for one answer only.
i usually dont judge that we lost, its how we lost the last 2 games. similar to the providence and butler games prior. we didnt have counter punches when teams took out or weapons and our defense was sagging. running into the same powell high ball pressure game after game. we were trending the wrong direction at the wrong time.
obviously i think we had championship talent. but given what we knew at the time and historically our success in tournament moments id have to put my money on out of bounds.
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how is unfamiliarity an advantage?? are we not as unfamiliar with the team we play? our advantage in the early rounds would be we had better talent and bigger size.
All opinions are welcome and I completely understand that they are no more than opinions.
Two poor games down the stretch of a very long season does not a trend make. Over the course of 30 games. losing the last 2, one by 2 points and the other a blowout was preceded by winning 15 of 18 games. Why ignore that and just concentrate on the last 2?
I'll stand by my comments that once leaving the confines of conference play this current Pirate team would have been a very difficult match up for whomever we played.
You are entitled to your opinion, just know you are in the minority of this viewpoint. Losing to two top 15 schools while probably dealing with a Covid outbreak on the team is nothing to be ashamed of for almost any team.
Even with all the negative pts you referrred to we were in a good place to do damage in the tourney...besides the obvious about our team comprised of tenured players with depth at every position, we would have had practically home court advantage if we were a top 4 seed, which is huge as your referred most of our Ncaa losses were to teams that were used to or located near that court location.
im not ignoring the last two. we played poorly for the same reasons vs providence and butler.
the last 2 games were exactly that... the last two games before the tournaments. i judge it based on the way they were playing at the time of the tournament... which was their last few games.
the elite 8 is a very hard benchmark to throw out there. heck, we very well could have faced a big east team by that time.
if you asked me what our ceiling was if it all clicked? Champions
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my expectations probably were elite 8. we really had tons of weapons vs almost every team. but at the time i felt like we'd miss those expectations. it just wasnt playing out at the most important time. unfortunately our best advantage was absolutely gassed. im really basing this answer remembering how i felt at the time.
also, idk if i buy that teams were located near the court location. they were certainly closer than us all times, but they werent exactly in their backyard. some were 10-15 hrs away. (for reference creighton is 18 hrs away and we play there every year)
We were trending down after the Villanova win. Lost the two games immediately after it, barely scraped by against Butler at home, had a solid but not great performance against SJU, played great and dominated early at Marquette but then nearly let them pull off the unthinkable and then of course the final two games which we've discussed.
It wasn't just two games, it was nearly a month's worth of a lower level of play heading into Big East Tournament week.
These were our three games prior to losing our last 2.
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Only in the Butler game did we play poorly, yet still won. The other games were blowouts.
Then we lost by 2 to Nova. Disappointing, but Nova was playing well at that time. And then the stinker at Creighton were we played our worst contest (at full strength) of the year.
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| Wed Feb 19 | Butler | W, 74-72 | Home | 19-7 | 11-3 | |||||
| Sun Feb 23 | St. John's | W, 81-65 | Home | 20-7 | 12-3 | |||||
| Sat Feb 29 | Marquette | W, 88-79 | Away | 21-7 | 13-3 |
Only in the Butler game did we play poorly, yet still won. The other games were blowouts.
Then we lost by 2 to Nova. Disappointing, but Nova was playing well at that time. And then the stinker at Creighton were we played our worst contest (at full strength) of the year.
that actually makes me remember another point, we were giving up 2nd chance points out the wazoo some of those games. if there is one recipe for an upset in rd 1 its giving up 2nd chance points.
20 to prov
17 to sju
16 to marquette
not sure those 3 games you linked should have inspired elite 8 potential.
Not to get off track here but playing close to home is huge....don't trust me? Ask coach Skinn.
Didn't read all the above posts, if the post is a repeat, I apologize.
In bounds..
Teams physically playing us for the 1st time, will have a problem with both our offense and defense.
We had it all and the sky was the limit, our best chance to go to the Final Four.
In bounds..
Teams physically playing us for the 1st time, will have a problem with both our offense and defense.
We had it all and the sky was the limit, our best chance to go to the Final Four.
Interesting thing to note is the team’s character after losses. After Mamu went down to Iowa State and the team lost that game, plus the Rutgers loss, at 6-4 the team was pushed up against a wall. I feel the last two games of the season were similar to the Iowa State game and then the Rutgers thrashing on the heels of blowing the Oregon game about 10 days earlier. All looked lost....
And then they started to play. I don’t think “trending” really tells any tale and I think it’s why the NCAA committee doesn’t reward or penalize teams “trending” at the end of the season anymore.
I do think this past team liked to play on the road and loved to perform on the big stage. Elite 8 sounds about right.
And then they started to play. I don’t think “trending” really tells any tale and I think it’s why the NCAA committee doesn’t reward or penalize teams “trending” at the end of the season anymore.
I do think this past team liked to play on the road and loved to perform on the big stage. Elite 8 sounds about right.
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