Inbounds/Out of bounds - 2019/20 Pirates

mikewalsh

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Out of Bounds - Myles Powell wasn't Myles Powell after the concussion at Rutgers. We had the horses to get to the Final 8, however, other players would have had to provide the spark. My gut is that Willard would have put too much on Powell to get to the promised land. I hope that time off for MP has allowed him to get back to his old self.
 
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SHUSA

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Interesting thing to note is the team’s character after losses. After Mamu went down to Iowa State and the team lost that game, plus the Rutgers loss, at 6-4 the team was pushed up against a wall. I feel the last two games of the season were similar to the Iowa State game and then the Rutgers thrashing on the heels of blowing the Oregon game about 10 days earlier. All looked lost....

And then they started to play. I don’t think “trending” really tells any tale and I think it’s why the NCAA committee doesn’t reward or penalize teams “trending” at the end of the season anymore.

I do think this past team liked to play on the road and loved to perform on the big stage. Elite 8 sounds about right.
besides nova away (we were the underdog) we crumbled on the big stage big time. blew it vs michigant st, really blew it vs oregon, got murdered vs rutgers, blew a chance to clinch big east champs vs nova on senior night, got run out the gym on the 2nd chance to clinch big east champs. massive moments, all losses.

like any year this team overperformed when expectations were low (maryland) and came up short when expectations were high. a 4 seed tournament game falls under big stage with high expectations. your comment about performing on the big stage is in every way wrong.
 
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Vegas pj

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Based on post season polling data - In. SH won at least 3, if not more, computer championships last season played in lieu of the real deal. Raise the banner!
 

mbraue

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Nothing is ever guaranteed, but if the NCAA Tournament played out last season the Pirates had final 8 talent and most likely that's where they would have ended their season.


Inbounds or out of bounds
Inbounds. With a decent seed and a little luck, we could have easily reached the elite 8 and, if you get there, who knows?

We had senior leadership, a terrific All-American who loves the big stage, a stretch 4 who was shooting lights out, a bulldog point guard and a tremendous shot blocker/BE defensive player of the year. Solid bench, too, and good team chemistry. Too bad for the lost opportunity.
 

hallstorm

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besides nova away (we were the underdog) we crumbled on the big stage big time. blew it vs michigant st, really blew it vs oregon, got murdered vs rutgers, blew a chance to clinch big east champs vs nova on senior night, got run out the gym on the 2nd chance to clinch big east champs. massive moments, all losses.

like any year this team overperformed when expectations were low (maryland) and came up short when expectations were high. a 4 seed tournament game falls under big stage with high expectations. your comment about performing on the big stage is in every way wrong.
So let’s see, you want to discount the win against Maryland (NET 18) as a low pressure game? Ok. I don’t care about Rutgers because in the tournament we would not be at the RAC and we all know how Rutgers fares on the road.

And also not count Butler (NET 19) at Butler when they were no 5? Say what you will about Marquette (NET 26), but their only losses at home other than SHU were Creighton, Providence and that bum team Maryland (by 20) and we handled them in their house.

Michigan State, Oregon, Creighton, Villanova...all those games are sweet 16 matchup-type games. And Butler and Maryland would be similar sweet 16 matchups. We were 3-4 in those games. A 50-50 shot more or less to get to the 8 in my opinion and a very fair question to ask that could go either way.
 

cernjSHU

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Well this is a cop out but based upon matchups, I would say inbounds but this team also had the potential to be knocked out before reaching the Sweet 16. Myles just wasn’t right. So, this team was very vulnerable. However, most teams were not used to facing a guy like Gill and having another versatile big man in Mamu. Seton Hall was a difficult matchup for many teams and that’s why it still had Final 8 potential.
 
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SHUSA

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So let’s see, you want to discount the win against Maryland (NET 18) as a low pressure game? Ok. I don’t care about Rutgers because in the tournament we would not be at the RAC and we all know how Rutgers fares on the road.

And also not count Butler (NET 19) at Butler when they were no 5? Say what you will about Marquette (NET 26), but their only losses at home other than SHU were Creighton, Providence and that bum team Maryland (by 20) and we handled them in their house.

Michigan State, Oregon, Creighton, Villanova...all those games are sweet 16 matchup-type games. And Butler and Maryland would be similar sweet 16 matchups. We were 3-4 in those games. A 50-50 shot more or less to get to the 8 in my opinion and a very fair question to ask that could go either way.
first off it was a great win, but we were playing with house money as underdogs in our own building. almost the opposite as favorites with everything to lose and high expectations not on home court.

butler and marquette were bad teams. you get no credit at the end of the year because the #5 team wasnt even top 5 in their own league.

butler in no way was a sweet 16. maryland unlikely. everyone here was low on maryland for good reason.

all of our sweet 16 big moment games we LOST. why am i getting ridiculed for pointing this out? even when we had games clinched we blew it. and some of those games we lost were when we were playing well. the most recent times right before the tournament we were playing bad. d fell apart, powell was figured out, counter measures absent, etc.

im not being negative. im being realistic. stop being mad that im right. we faltered on every single occasion last year, and faltered in the tournament every year but one before that (and the game we won was a foul slog)

out of bounds is my response, backed up by valid undeniable points. it was an option in the question and thats the answer im giving.
 

lloyde dobler

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first off it was a great win, but we were playing with house money as underdogs in our own building. almost the opposite as favorites with everything to lose and high expectations not on home court.

butler and marquette were bad teams. you get no credit at the end of the year because the #5 team wasnt even top 5 in their own league.

butler in no way was a sweet 16. maryland unlikely. everyone here was low on maryland for good reason.

all of our sweet 16 big moment games we LOST. why am i getting ridiculed for pointing this out? even when we had games clinched we blew it. and some of those games we lost were when we were playing well. the most recent times right before the tournament we were playing bad. d fell apart, powell was figured out, counter measures absent, etc.

im not being negative. im being realistic. stop being mad that im right. we faltered on every single occasion last year, and faltered in the tournament every year but one before that (and the game we won was a foul slog)

out of bounds is my response, backed up by valid undeniable points. it was an option in the question and thats the answer im giving.
I wasn’t sold on them going far either - just way too many variables involved to know with any sort of certainty - but to say they faltered on every single occasion last year isn’t really fair.
 
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SHUSA

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I wasn’t sold on them going far either - just way too many variables involved to know with any sort of certainty - but to say they faltered on every single occasion last year isn’t really fair.
every big time occassion. ill give you nova away (remember that was novas down year) i listed the others out.
 

hallstorm

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every big time occassion. ill give you nova away (remember that was novas down year) i listed the others out.
So everyone had a down year: North Carolina, Duke, Villanova....and if we had matched up against San Diego state or Dayton in the tourney I’m sure you would say that those teams are not the perennial blue bloods and therefore we “should” beat them.

Was there a dubious sentiment around the team toward the end of the year? Of course. I think nearly every fan of every team of a power conference could point to inefficiencies (sans Gonzaga, SDSU, Dayton or another weaker conference team dominator). It’s easy to point out shortcomings of the team you see day in and day out.

50/50 to make elite 8? Yes.
 

SHUSA

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So everyone had a down year: North Carolina, Duke, Villanova....and if we had matched up against San Diego state or Dayton in the tourney I’m sure you would say that those teams are not the perennial blue bloods and therefore we “should” beat them.

Was there a dubious sentiment around the team toward the end of the year? Of course. I think nearly every fan of every team of a power conference could point to inefficiencies (sans Gonzaga, SDSU, Dayton or another weaker conference team dominator). It’s easy to point out shortcomings of the team you see day in and day out.

50/50 to make elite 8? Yes.
none of this changes anything i said related to repeatedly coming up short in big moments. actual vegas odds for shu elite 8 prob would have been something like 10/90
 

radecicco

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first off it was a great win, but we were playing with house money as underdogs in our own building. almost the opposite as favorites with everything to lose and high expectations not on home court.

butler and marquette were bad teams. you get no credit at the end of the year because the #5 team wasnt even top 5 in their own league.

butler in no way was a sweet 16. maryland unlikely. everyone here was low on maryland for good reason.

all of our sweet 16 big moment games we LOST. why am i getting ridiculed for pointing this out? even when we had games clinched we blew it. and some of those games we lost were when we were playing well. the most recent times right before the tournament we were playing bad. d fell apart, powell was figured out, counter measures absent, etc.

im not being negative. im being realistic. stop being mad that im right. we faltered on every single occasion last year, and faltered in the tournament every year but one before that (and the game we won was a foul slog)

out of bounds is my response, backed up by valid undeniable points. it was an option in the question and thats the answer im giving.
Of course all your points are valid and undeniable. Just keep repeating them to yourself and you’ll force yourself to believe them.
 

SHUSA

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Of course all your points are valid and undeniable. Just keep repeating them to yourself and you’ll force yourself to believe them.
force myself? they are facts and on the schedule. our big game record, our season trend, our second chance points, etc.
 

radecicco

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force myself? they are facts and on the schedule. our big game record, our season trend, our second chance points, etc.
As i said, all your points are valid and undeniable. Thanks for enlightening us all with your unreproachable knowledge.
 
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Piratz

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Inbounds. The team dragged to the finish line the final week, but would've recharged for the postseason like many do, I think.

We would've given teams fits who weren't used to see us.
 
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Piratz

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We had the talent, but we were not playing well at the end. I was not as bullish as most Pirate fans were re the post season. Not being able to put away Nova at home, then getting blown out at CU in the second half were very concerning to me and made me fear we were spent. Maybe getting away from the BE would free Myles like so many thought. I thought we may be upset prone. I am straddling the line on this one.
College teams are funny. The rigors of the conference season tend to make them look that way, then they get a second wind of sorts for the postseason. I think the time off between Creighton and the BET would've been helpful and the team regained the chip on their shoulder after the Creighton celebration.

The final two games in that final week didn't go well. Team was super emotional against Villanova and all out of sorts, then the Creighton game turned on a dime when Gill went out.

But I have no doubt that group would've been looking for blood at MSG.
 

Seton75

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Maybe piratz. I certainly was hoping that happened, and we had the talent to make it happen. Seeing myles take off in an ncca game would have been super adrenaline.

No guarentee which way we went. I remember a top ten team who beat cuse by 30 in the bet final, then lost in the second round.
 
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Hallsome

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We will never know what would have happened so all opinions are valid. But some posters really go out of their way to emphasize the negative regarding SHU hoops.
People that surely didn’t play D1 sports and probably got cut by JV teams tend to be the most negative in my experience. Because those that played have more respect for these young adults knowing what they go through.
 

SHUSA

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People that surely didn’t play D1 sports and probably got cut by JV teams tend to be the most negative in my experience. Because those that played have more respect for these young adults knowing what they go through.
right so hide what you believe when asked on a message board. that makes it a useful place. wierd that dan gave an out of bounds option at all.
 
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LeftCoastPirates

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Lots of talk about how Seton Hall was or wasn’t trending during these responses.

When we had John Fanta on the podcast we talked about this very point heading into the BET. As always John was very insightful.

fast forward to 47:26 mark for our discussion on this very bullet point.

#shamelessplug

 

Hallsome

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right so hide what you believe when asked on a message board. that makes it a useful place. wierd that dan gave an out of bounds option at all.
It’s a message board. I think many here take it too seriously and go out of their way to find negatives.
 

Hallsome

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Nothing is ever guaranteed, but if the NCAA Tournament played out last season the Pirates had final 8 talent and most likely that's where they would have ended their season.


Inbounds or out of bounds
wonder if when you changed the question answers changed (because you drastically changed the question at some point). I’ll still say inbounds. my heart and brain were on the fence but I was an in bounds lean, and what makes it easier to say in is that many uninterested people had then as a final four team.
 

hallstorm

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What I think is in favor of getting to the 8 is that games would have been most likely played in Albany and then MSG. Coming back to MSG in 2 weeks could have been a huge boon in that it wouldn’t have been at the Rock, but they would have had a favorable crowd.
 

SHUSA

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It’s a message board. I think many here take it too seriously and go out of their way to find negatives.
you could say that many here take it too seriously and go out of their way to give rosey answers. need yin and yang.
 

SHUSA

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What I think is in favor of getting to the 8 is that games would have been most likely played in Albany and then MSG. Coming back to MSG in 2 weeks could have been a huge boon in that it wouldn’t have been at the Rock, but they would have had a favorable crowd.
msg is a factor but i dont think our 4 seed got any sort of favor for getting msg. lord knows we never got any favors prior
 

Piratz

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Maybe piratz. I certainly was hoping that happened, and we had the talent to make it happen. Seeing myles take off in an ncca game would have been super adrenaline.

No guarentee which way we went. I remember a top ten team who beat cuse by 30 in the bet final, then lost in the second round.
Completely agree. Forever the season of what could have been. The home game against Villanova was the real stinger for me. At least that would've been a championship moment and closure for the Seniors, in hindsight.

If you would've told me Myles would shoot .265 from 3 in BE games and we'd go 13-5, I would not have believed either. Why we love sports.
 

NYShoreGuy

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SHU had all the answers. Height, defense, an All American 2G who could take over at game's end, depth and most importantly getting away from teams that know you as well as you know yourself.

Leaving conference play along with all the assets at the disposal of Willard leads me to believe this particular team would have reached the final 8 before falling.
This idea about familiarity vs teams not knowing you is really BS. This is not a just shu thing. You watch advanced scouting tape you see what teams do, dont do, their strengths and weaknesses.
The idea that things would have been better because shu gets away from league teams I don't necessarily agree with.
I do agree that there was a potential along with 11 to 13 other teams to have a special, deep run.
Good mid major coaching staffs would have their team ready vs high major and better seeded teams.
I did feel SHU would have been enough to make it past Albany weekend. MSG was no lock.
I almost feel they kinds needed BET to get some mojo back. They would have had Marquette. You beat the same school 3 times in a season its a feat because very hard to do.
However as stated above, there was nothing good about the last week of the season.
 

NYShoreGuy

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SHU had all the answers. Height, defense, an All American 2G who could take over at game's end, depth and most importantly getting away from teams that know you as well as you know yourself.

Leaving conference play along with all the assets at the disposal of Willard leads me to believe this particular team would have reached the final 8 before falling.
This idea about familiarity vs teams not knowing you is really BS. This is not a just shu thing. You watch advanced scouting tape you see what teams do, dont do, their strengths and weaknesses.
The idea that things would have been better because shu gets away from league teams I don't necessarily agree with.
I do agree that there was a potential along with 11 to 13 other teams to have a special, deep run.
Good mid major coaching staffs would have their team ready vs high major and better seeded teams.
I did feel SHU would have been enough to make it past Albany weekend. MSG was no lock.
I almost feel they kinds needed BET to get some mojo back. They would have had Marquette. You beat the same school 3 times in a season its a feat because very hard to do.
However as stated above, there was nothing good about the last week of the season.
 

Halldan1

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This idea about familiarity vs teams not knowing you is really BS.
As usual, you're out on an island. Just once I would love to see you in a room with our staff debating the topic at hand, starting with the one you just trashed.
 
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NYShoreGuy

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As usual, you're out on an island. Just once I would love to see you in a room with our staff debating the topic at hand, starting with the one you just trashed.
Halldan I welcome that thought but they dont need me and I dont need them on this.

"To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing and be nothing. And that's not the way I live my life."
 

Hallsome

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This idea about familiarity vs teams not knowing you is really BS. This is not a just shu thing. You watch advanced scouting tape you see what teams do, dont do, their strengths and weaknesses.
The idea that things would have been better because shu gets away from league teams I don't necessarily agree with.
I do agree that there was a potential along with 11 to 13 other teams to have a special, deep run.
Good mid major coaching staffs would have their team ready vs high major and better seeded teams.
I did feel SHU would have been enough to make it past Albany weekend. MSG was no lock.
I almost feel they kinds needed BET to get some mojo back. They would have had Marquette. You beat the same school 3 times in a season its a feat because very hard to do.
However as stated above, there was nothing good about the last week of the season.
I think there’s a difference between playing a team once vs twice (and you seem to almost suggest that’s the case when you mention the difficulty of having to beat a team a 3x)
 

Halldan1

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Halldan I welcome that thought but they dont need me and I dont need them on this.

"To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing and be nothing. And that's not the way I live my life."
Here's the thing. and the reason why you take so much well deserved grief on this board. When someone doesn't share your opinion the response is not to debate in a civilized manner. Instead it's to post that the differing POV is BS .

It's one of the reasons I seldom respond to your posts. When someone has all the answers that means they have never learned to listen. And that to me usually means just ignore.
 
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NYShoreGuy

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Here's the thing. and the reason why you take so much well deserved grief on this board. When someone doesn't share your opinion the response is not to debate in a civilized manner. Instead it's to post that the differing POV is BS .

It's one of the reasons I seldom respond to your posts. When someone has all the answers that means they have never learned to listen. And that to me usually means just ignore.
So the logic premise is any competitive high quality conf member feels they would do good in the ncaa because they got away from their own conf kind? I mean i suppose if other schools didnt have means to see other games and break down film. I would say any coach group is going to say we feel good playing a national tourney and getting away from our conf.
Like every program and coach drills to recruits we are a good fit for you because of our player development and evolution of our student athletes at the university.

Let me ask you this, of the 4 remaining NBA teams do you think any of the 4 feel well once we get to the finals and get out of our conf the finals will be easier because we are away from teams most familiar with us?
 

NYShoreGuy

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I think there’s a difference between playing a team once vs twice (and you seem to almost suggest that’s the case when you mention the difficulty of having to beat a team a 3x)
In 2007 the cowboys were a better team than the giants. However the giants beat them the one time in which the qualifier was lose this game and the season ends.
To further my point. Marquette was a good matchup for SHU and after blowing the outright standalone title in the last week was just the right opponent to have as to some degree SHU backs were against the wall as perception of not advancing at MSG means fringe 4 seed area. BTW, SHU likely would have finished with 10 losses, in typical years good to great teams dont have that many.
 

SHUSA

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didnt we play with an almost identical team vs mid major wofford who never played us prior and they crushed us?

doesnt the whole familiarity thing work both ways. i fail to see how this is an advantage for just one team, as shown by the previous year.
 

lloyde dobler

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It’s a factor, but an over-emphasized one.

I would say that the importance disappears by about 75 percent after the first round. Once you’re in the second round, you’re playing someone just as good or better than you, and you’ve got to bring it in order to advance, familiarity or not.
 
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