Just not knowing how to play the game

[Halldan1]

We discussed this previously about MLB and the players not understanding what to do in certain situations. This one is about as bad as you will ever see.

But if you look closely there are three mistakes in the video. Two are obvious. By the first basemen and then the second basemen. But what is the third?

 

[Seton75]

Good springsteen quote...

 

[mikewalsh]

Fundamentals are completely lost in MLB.

 

[Halldan1]

Well since no one answered

1. All the first basemen had to do was step on the bag instead of chasing the player.

2. Second basemen didn't cover first base and was beaten on the throw from the catcher.

3. Great move by the baserunner until he stopped near the plate to give the safe sign on the play at the plate. That runner was not safe until the batter ran back to first base and by showboating lost valuable time running back to first and would have been out if the second basemen was covering properly.

 

[SHallguy2]

Wow that was truly pathetic. My favorite question as a baseball coach was to ask kids, what is the most important part of their body to play ball? Pains me to watch the lack of hustle as well.
Baseball intelligence is half the game.

 

[Halldan1]

I remember when I was a sophomore in HS and sitting on the varsity bench while the starters were playing against Orange HS. We had runners on 2nd and 3rd, two outs and a full count on the batter.

On the pitch the runner on 3rd starts for home. I'm watching him in shock. It all worked out because the batter struck out. But my question was simple. What if the pitch was a ball?

Our coach never said a word to the baserunner.

 

[SHallguy2]

I remember when I was a sophomore in HS and sitting on the varsity bench while the starters were playing against Orange HS. We had runners on 2nd and 3rd, two outs and a full count on the batter.

On the pitch the runner on 3rd starts for home. I'm watching him in shock. It all worked out because the batter struck out. But my question was simple. What if the pitch was a ball?

Our coach never said a word to the baserunner.

Many really good HS coaches could win games simply by recognizing mistakes just before they happened. Opposing player throwing to the wrong base or not hitting the cut off man. Bunting and stealing their way to victory. Their was a coach in Essex County who coached my sons team. He took the worse teams and made them winners overnight by teaching them simple baseball fundamentals. The transformation anywhere he went was amazing. I would put my money on any team he coached.

 

[HallX2]

Ridiculous that a player is allowed to run back to home plate. Of course the defensive response is embarrassing

 

[lloyde dobler]

Ridiculous that a player is allowed to run back to home plate. Of course the defensive response is embarrassing

Why? It’s a force play at first.
The only thing is that he can’t run back TO home plate, but can run TOWARD it.

Running a Batter Back to Home Plate - Automatic Out Rule

All about MLB umpires, ejections, Replay Review decisions, close and controversial calls. Detailed rules and sports officiating analysis.

www.closecallsports.com

 

[Halldan1]

The only explanation for the first basemen (and I wouldn't buy it based on what I saw) was that he thought there were less than 2 outs even though that was wrong and he ran the batter backwards so as to not let the runner on 3rd score (even though that eventually happened).

 

[TheHall87]

Well since no one answered

1. All the first basemen had to do was step on the bag instead of chasing the player.

2. Second basemen didn't cover first base and was beaten on the throw from the catcher.

3. Great move by the baserunner until he stopped near the plate to give the safe sign on the play at the plate. That runner was not safe until the batter ran back to first base and by showboating lost valuable time running back to first and would have been out if the second basemen was covering properly.

While number three is correct it is a somewhat minor detail because Baez had already created a run that would not have scored otherwise. However, Baez scored on the next play so the Cubs would have lost out on a second run had he been thrown out in the aftermath.

Here's the worst part of all of this. There were TWO OUT in the inning. If the first baseman steps on first base, the inning is over and no run scores. The Cubs score two runs on this play and ultimately win by two runs 5-3.

 

[HallX2]

Why? It’s a force play at first.
The only thing is that he can’t run back TO home plate, but can run TOWARD it.

Running a Batter Back to Home Plate - Automatic Out Rule

All about MLB umpires, ejections, Replay Review decisions, close and controversial calls. Detailed rules and sports officiating analysis.

www.closecallsports.com

In my view you shd never be allowed to run back to a base you can’t possess. I didn’t say it was the rule. Just my view.

 

[lloyde dobler]

In my view you shd never be allowed to run back to a base you can’t possess. I didn’t say it was the rule. Just my view.

How would that be different from any rundown play?

 

[Halldan1]

While number three is correct it is a somewhat minor detail because Baez had already created a run that would not have scored otherwise. However, Baez scored on the next play so the Cubs would have lost out on a second run had he been thrown out in the aftermath.

Here's the worst part of all of this. There were TWO OUT in the inning. If the first baseman steps on first base, the inning is over and no run scores. The Cubs score two runs on this play and ultimately win by two runs 5-3.

My point is as I noted. There were three gaffes on the play by 3 different players. I posted them in order of magnitude.

That said, I have read or heard about the first two, but not a single soul to my knowledge made any reference to the third. So despite it not hurting his team, it was still an error and should be discussed.

In fact if you watch the video you will see that he realized right after making the safe sign he had to hightail it to first base or the run and his safe sign would have been for naught.

 

[The SHUttle]

Wow, that is bad. Baseball has become pretty unwatchable with seemingly only home runs being the way they plan to score. Anything else happens by accident and not by a plan or strategy. It's only going to get worse as the NL is expected to adopt the DH next year.

 

[sami]

The runner at home would have been out if Baez didn’t run back to first? Not sure I understand 3.

 

[Halldan1]

Everything that transpired as seen on the video would have been for naught if Baez doesn't beat the catchers throw to first base. By his stopping to make the safe sign he wasted valuable time running to first base. If the second basemen had been covering as he should have been then Baez would have been out. But the second basemen didn't get there in time as Baez beat him to the bag.

 

[HallX2]

How would that be different from any rundown play?

Because u can run back to first second or third

How would that be different from any rundown play?

there are instances when the runner can return to the base. Don’t think you can ever return to home. No?

 

[lloyde dobler]

Because u can run back to first second or third

there are instances when the runner can return to the base. Don’t think you can ever return to home. No?

A rundown between first and home and third and home are the same other than that on the first base side, you can’t reach the plate. But that’s when the stupidity of the defensive team comes into play when all they have to do is touch first.

 

[lloyde dobler]

The runner at home would have been out if Baez didn’t run back to first? Not sure I understand 3.

When a runner is going from home to first it’s a force play. We never really think of it in those terms, but that’s what it is. So as long as the batter is retired on the force with two out, there are no timing plays on the bases. It could actually happen normally if there’s a runner on third breaking on contact as a slow batter hits a two-out grounder to deep short. The batter could be gunned out at first after the runner crosses the plate. It just goes to show what a dumb play it was by the first baseman.

 

[TheHall87]

The runner at home would have been out if Baez didn’t run back to first? Not sure I understand 3.

Not out but the run would be nullified. I too had forgotten that in my response to Halldan.

As Lloyde stated, with two out, the batter has to safely reach first base and Baez did not do so until after retreating to home plate and then running back to first base and beating the subsequent throw there.

If Baez had reached base safely (let's say he beat the original throw to first base) and that play had continued the way it did but with Baez being thrown out trying to advance to second, then the run would have counted anyway because it would have scored before the last out of the inning.

 

[SHUSA]

3 instances of mass stupidity and terrible execution and then baez baserunning is the 4th.

 

[shu09]

Excellent article here by the great Tim Kurkjian on how bad baserunning is in baseball today.

'Sorry you had to see that': How baserunning has become an embarrassment in MLB

It seems so simple: Run the bases. You learn these things as a child. Or do you? "Baserunning is terrible today," Astros manager Dusty Baker said. It's a real problem in Major League Baseball -- and it's only getting worse.

www.espn.com

 

[hbkmyr]

Doubling down:

Pittsburgh Pirates' Ke'Bryan Hayes loses home run for failing to touch first base

While watching his fly ball hit the foul pole, Pittsburgh Pirates rookie Ke'Bryan Hayes missed first base and had his home run taken off the board.

www.usatoday.com

 

[SHUSource]

It's fun to have a laugh at these guys and realize what absurd situations can unfold on a baseball diamond, but none of it is new. Thirty-five and forty years ago, I recall seeing guys called out on appeals after not touching bases, and even two guys thrown out at home on the same play. Completely absurd! But nothing new.

Well, the thing with Javy Baez was new to me. No way had I ever seen that before. But shitty baserunning is probably as old as baseball. It's as old as my memory, anyway.

 

[lloyde dobler]

Another sign of how baserunning has taken a back seat: When is the last time you’ve seen a pitchout?

 

[TheHall87]

Another sign of how baserunning has taken a back seat: When is the last time you’ve seen a pitchout?

That goes hand in hand with the demise of the stolen base as an offensive weapon.

 

[lloyde dobler]

That goes hand in hand with the demise of the stolen base as an offensive weapon.

Exactly

 

[SHUSA]

Another sign of how baserunning has taken a back seat: When is the last time you’ve seen a pitchout?

haha youd probably still get goombas swinging at it nowadays

 

[TheHall87]

Doubling down:

Pittsburgh Pirates' Ke'Bryan Hayes loses home run for failing to touch first base

While watching his fly ball hit the foul pole, Pittsburgh Pirates rookie Ke'Bryan Hayes missed first base and had his home run taken off the board.

www.usatoday.com

Making this worse is that Hayes is the son of former major leaguer Charlie Hayes.

There's also this one that also occurred last night and which is mentioned in the above story. Although it's questionable, the batter, Bobby Witt, Jr. was called out for not touching home plate. Witt is also the son of a former major league player, pitcher Bobby Witt.