More zone?

[Halldan1]

Not something most of us want to hear but Willard did make the point that he would like to play a little more zone to rest his players in certain situations.

He played zone for three possessions against Georgetown, but that was more to confuse the Hoyas by giving them a different look then to rest his players. However, that said he wants to incorporate the zone more moving forward.

I know in post game pressers this year at times some of his players have said they were very tired down the stretch and needed a blow.

This past game Derrick Gordon noted that around the 5 minute mark he was gassed but gutted it out.

 

[The SHUttle]

A zone can be an effective defense, but we just have not been very good at it under Willard to date.

 

[Halldan1]

A zone can be an effective defense, but we just have not been very good at it under Willard to date.

And that's just what Willard said in the presser. He's not happy with our execution in practice.

 

[HallB]

It should be noted that the that there is a week break after butler which sounds like it is badly needed.

 

[hallgrad80]

We all talked about depth , especially at the guard position , was going to be a factor and that there was concern that players could run out of gas near the end of the season. Hopefully we'll be able to see it thru.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

I guess the question becomes what's more effective zone with our main guys or man to man, but giving guys like Veer and Anthony more minutes to rest guys. Heck maybe even give Dalton 1 minute each half. It also hurts when a guy like Desi is in foul trouble.

 

[Halldan1]

Desi's foul trouble Saturday forced the three guards to play more minutes than anticipated.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Desi's foul trouble Saturday forced the three guards to play more minutes than anticipated.

Agree 100%. However the 3 guard rotation puts a lot of minutes even when no foul problems. I was wondering if the option exists of having Veer and Desi in at the same time at the 2 and 3, where Veer plays the 2 offensively and Desi takes the 2 defensively?

 

[HallLine69]

Agree 100%. However the 3 guard rotation puts a lot of minutes even when no foul problems. I was wondering if the option exists of having Veer and Desi in at the same time at the 2 and 3, where Veer plays the 2 offensively and Desi takes the 2 defensively?

I doubt we'll see it based on Willard's approach to using players. Veer's ballhandling --imho-- is not good enough for him to play the 2. Maybe he'll get betteras time goes on. Right now he's strictly a catch and shoot from the corner guy.

 

[Seton75]

Agree 100%. However the 3 guard rotation puts a lot of minutes even when no foul problems. I was wondering if the option exists of having Veer and Desi in at the same time at the 2 and 3, where Veer plays the 2 offensively and Desi takes the 2 defensively?

We have done this at least once. I am sure Desi can pinch hit at the 2. And we could either play Veer at the 3, or have both Mike and Ish play. With most of these kids being versatile, we do have some options. Of the top 8, other than Anthony, all the guys can play at least 2 positions.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Honestly I think we were fortunate it was Desi in foul trouble. If IW, KC, or DG are in foul trouble we have a serious depth issue. Right now is not the time to be testing out combinations, but I was wondering what we do if a guard is in foul trouble, maybe the move is to call on DS? I don't know. HallLine69, we had some success with Cosby as a strictly catch and shoot guy with JT at the point. I have no problem with Veer as a catch and shoot 2 guard offensively.

 

[hallgrad80]

While I can understand Willard's logic in using a zone more then we have why announce it instead of keeping quiet about it and spring it on Butler which may give you an advantage, even if it's for a relatively short period of time.

 

[Seton75]

Honestly I think we were fortunate it was Desi in foul trouble. If IW, KC, or DG are in foul trouble we have a serious depth issue. Right now is not the time to be testing out combinations, but I was wondering what we do if a guard is in foul trouble, maybe the move is to call on DS? I don't know. HallLine69, we had some success with Cosby as a strictly catch and shoot guy with JT at the point. I have no problem with Veer as a catch and shoot 2 guard offensively.

I have no doubt that Desi will play 2 if we have foul trouble or injuries that keep two of the guards out. And I think for a few minutes here and there it will be OK. The good news is that all three guards can play PG in a pinch.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

While I can understand Willard's logic in using a zone more then we have why announce it instead of keeping quiet about it and spring it on Butler which may give you an advantage, even if it's for a relatively short period of time.

I think he meant the future in general. I don't think he meant Butler, at least I hope not. I believe Butler is the best 3 point shooting team in the conference.

 

[sportsfantatic44]

I would not play zone against Butler. They have made 21 3s in their last 2 games. Only way I play any type of zone is if we are in foul trouble. Will be interesting to see who Butler uses to matchup on Whitehead. They can go a couple of different ways.

 

[Halldan1]

While I can understand Willard's logic in using a zone more then we have why announce it instead of keeping quiet about it and spring it on Butler which may give you an advantage, even if it's for a relatively short period of time.

Or announce it now and give the opposing team(s) more to prepare for.

Frankly I don't think either scenario is that big of a deal.

 

[Fireman131]

Not something most of us want to hear but Willard did make the point that he would like to play a little more zone to rest his players in certain situations.

He played zone for three possessions against Georgetown, but that was more to confuse the Hoyas by giving them a different look then to rest his players. However, that said he wants to incorporate the zone more moving forward.

I know in post game pressers this year at times some of his players have said they were very tired down the stretch and needed a blow.

This past game Derrick Gordon noted that around the 5 minute mark he was gassed but gutted it out.

We are playing some of the best defense we have seen in years.. Everyone knows their role and where they are supposed to be.. And Willard wants to start tweaking things and playing more zone which we have been awful doing under Willard.. His stupid matchup zone.. Kevin Willard!! your doing good this year, keep it up.. dont start over complicating things.. This team has an identity of hard nose in your face man up defense.. Dont mess it up..

 

[hallgrad80]

I think he meant the future in general. I don't think he meant Butler, at least I hope not. I believe Butler is the best 3 point shooting team in the conference.

Our game with Butler is the immediate future and I believe he'll want to begin using it more and he'll start using it m against them but not for extended periods of time.

 

[Piratefan2009]

I remember back to the 2011-12 year, when we used to switch back and forth man to zone, to match-up zone. It was a very exciting defense that even the announcers would give props to because it stifles the defense. I wouldn't mind us going Match-up zone to keep pressure on the PG but free up some of the other guys to a less foul-prone arrangement.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Our game with Butler is the immediate future and I believe he'll want to begin using it more and he'll start using it m against them but not for extended periods of time.

He said he's going to use it in certain situations. Unless of real foul trouble again, I'm going to guess it won't be used against the best 3 point shooting team in the conference if it doesn't absolutely have to be used.

 

[garyshu71]

Takes away the rebounding edge and they always seem to soften up when zone is played. Switching to man defense is one of the big reasons for the turnaround in our record.

 

[Piratz]

KW loves to tinker. Nature of the beast for a guy who likes the x's and o's side.

Granted it can help at times as a switch-up. We've been succesfull in the past switching up defenses, so it's not a terrible idea. We'll also need some wrinkles when facing teams for the second or third time down the stretch and into MSG.

But my concern is we do too much tinkering or we stay in it too long. If we rely on it extensively we'll likely be weakening our strengths. You don't want to do that. That's what got us in trouble in the first half against Wichita State. Good we got out of it, but we were in it far too long and that's my concern.

 

[Piratefan2009]

Takes away the rebounding edge and they always seem to soften up when zone is played. Switching to man defense is one of the big reasons for the turnaround in our record.

Agreed. So why is Willard switching? You have to assume he either sees Zone as a good option again, or he sees that Man-to-man isn't as good as it used to be (players getting too tired, worn out). I hope the zone is used sparingly. Maybe even bring in Soffer for a minute because that's all you've got on the bench guard-wise.

 

[Halldan1]

He sees it when used wisely as giving his players a blow on the court.

Playing M/M is exhausting. The coach and the players have made reference to that at times in post game pressers.

 

[shupat08]

Our game with Butler is the immediate future and I believe he'll want to begin using it more and he'll start using it m against them but not for extended periods of time.

I don't think a team with Dunham and Martin is a great one to play zone against.

Meanwhile, Ish/Nzei/Delgado/Desi should be able to eat Wideman and Czbascsdhdfz. Alive inside the paint.

 

[hallgrad80]

Sometime coaches think they have to prove how smart they are by tinkering with their basic schemes that are working and working well especially when our aggressive man to man has been the engine that's fueled our recent success. I guess I'm just a fan who believes you win games playing the fundamentals well and stick to what's has worked for you the way Vince Lomadrdi used to do . That's not to say you don't need to make adjustments during the game to address what's not working well offensively or defensively or for a short change of pace or short different look.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

I don't think it's about tinkering to prove how smart he is. It's about tinkering to not have guys gassed at the under 4 minute timeout in a tight game.

 

[pmulcahy96]

As much as I despise zone, I can understand going to a zone for a bit for a blow or change of pace. The key is for Willard to have it simplified. Coach seems to be like a mad scientist when it comes to zone defense, it may seem amazing in theory, but it just doesn't translate to the players and they become overwhelmed.

 

[HallBall02]

A few things to think about that have already been discussed.

1) our team doesn't run a good zone defense at all, we get picked apart.
2) butler is a bad team to experiment with more zone since they are known to be better than average shooters
3) if we shorten our bench like we have we will need to play zone a bit more to rest players, but since we play bad zone hopefully it isn't a dramatic shift.
4) why can't we play at 1/3/1 with Ish at the top of key. That would be disruptive as hell for sure as long as he doesn't get too many petty reach in fouls.
5) if Willard uses tv timeout and his timeouts effectively, and his 3 subs effectively, I think we can keep a shortened bench and play man to man all day with these young college kids. I think he over emphasizes the tired factor, I'm more worried about foul trouble when playing too much aggressive man

 

[Piratefan2009]

A few things to think about that have already been discussed.

1) our team doesn't run a good zone defense at all, we get picked apart.
2) butler is a bad team to experiment with more zone since they are known to be better than average shooters
3) if we shorten our bench like we have we will need to play zone a bit more to rest players, but since we play bad zone hopefully it isn't a dramatic shift.
4) why can't we play at 1/3/1 with Ish at the top of key. That would be disruptive as hell for sure as long as he doesn't get too many petty reach in fouls.
5) if Willard uses tv timeout and his timeouts effectively, and his 3 subs effectively, I think we can keep a shortened bench and play man to man all day with these young college kids. I think he over emphasizes the tired factor, I'm more worried about foul trouble when playing too much aggressive man

Not sure I want Ish at the top of a 1-3-1, is that where your big man is supposed to be? I'm not that familiar with the setup, but I would assume you are trying to apply pressure to their PG, which means you put your best defender up top to aggravate. Either way the 1-3-1 could weaken our rebounding. It sure is a fun defense to watch though.

I would rather see some type of match-up zone with Gordon and KC sharing time on the opposing PG so that at least one of them gets more of a blow on the defensive end.