Murder Charges dismissed against Cops.

[cernjSHU]

This is the Wendy's case in which a guy broke free from the cops and started running with the officer's taser. As I stated at the time, this was a case in which prosecutors overcharged the officers with felony murder charges. They even charged the officer who had nothing to with the shooting with murder.

The closer issue was whether the officer that shot Brooks was guilty of manslaughter. I thought it was a close call and that made it for a difficult case to prove. This was the right call. But knee jerk charging of cops should not done. One must take their time in investigating and then make the proper charges. Or else, this happens.

Prosecutor to dismiss charges against Atlanta police officers involved in fatal shooting of Rayshard Brooks | CNN

A Georgia special prosecutor determined that the two Atlanta police officers involved in the fatal shooting of Rayshard Brooks in June 2020 acted reasonably and did not commit crimes.

www.cnn.com

 

[HALL85]

We see this often. Why do prosecutors overcharge when they know this is a likely outcome?

 

[shu09]

We see this often. Why do prosecutors overcharge when they know this is a likely outcome?

Politics. Some prosecutors are no longer objective and impartial, they have to follow the political winds of the day.

 

[ed odowd]

Woke prosecutors more concerned with progressive base than justice.

 

[sami]

Perhaps they're getting the intended result? If you don't want to send someone to jail, can you charge them with something they're likely to beat?

 

[Section112]

It's a tough job being a police officer. They have to make life or death decisions quickly unfortunately and deal with a lot of folks out there and in many places they have no support from mayors, prosecutors and politicians. I give them a lot of credit and it sounds like the right decision was made in this case.

Recently traveled to Cleveland for the first time since the pandemic. It was a thriving downtown a few years ago. Many stores/shops/restaurants have not reopened and many won't. When you talk to the locals (black and white) they blame the BLM riots more than the pandemic and the lack of police presence saying it is more dangerous at night to walk around. Most store front windows were broken and looted and the shop owners are not coming back. The pandemic also hurt obviously with big employers allowing extended work from home policies. We had to wait a long time to get lunch each day because there wasn't much open in the heart of town. I went to the one CVS open downtown and the shelves were bare and the pharmacist worked from behind a shield. All their stuff was stolen repeatedly and the police did not do anything unfortunately (probably because they were not going to get any support). They are not restocking the shelves. I feel bad for Cleveland and other cities like it. It was thriving just a few years ago. The people that live downtown usually poor are the ones suffering the most as a result. I hope it comes back. Liberal prosecutors and mayors are not helping their constituent's cause at all and it's driving away good people from the cities. Very sad in some places and I heard Minneapolis is the same.

 

[cernjSHU]

We see this often. Why do prosecutors overcharge when they know this is a likely outcome?

Prosecutors overcharge thinking they can later plea it out for a lesser charge. However, that is a bad way to pursue prosecution. Moreover, what it looks like to the community like some grand conspiracy to protect the cops. Prosecutors need to better educate people about what is murder. People think that if someone dies, it is a murder. There is a wide range of the spectrum when this occurs.

 

[cernjSHU]

Perhaps they're getting the intended result? If you don't want to send someone to jail, can you charge them with something they're likely to beat?

Ethically. a prosecutor is bound not to charge someone when they know there is no probably cause. There was no PC at all to charge the second cop that had nothing to do with the shooting. Absolutely ridiculous.

May have had PC for a manslaughter charge on the shooter but that is it.

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

Woke prosecutors more concerned with progressive base than justice.

Yup 🎯

 

[Pirata]

Prosecutors need to better educate people about what is murder. People think that if someone dies, it is a murder.

Can you clarify what you mean by this?

 

[cernjSHU]

Can you clarify what you mean by this?

Sure

If a person kills another it does not mean it is murder. IT can be a crime or perhaps no crime at all. It all depends on the facts and the mental state of the "killer".

1) Accident I was cleaning my gun and I didn't realize there was a bullet in it. It fired and I killed somoene. No crime. Tragic Accident.

2) Justifiable/Self Defense: I killed someone who was coming at me with a knife. Justifiable homicide due to self defense. No Crime.

3) Manslaughter: A person who causes another's death does so recklessly when he is aware of and consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that death will result from his/her conduct. The disregard of that risk is a gross deviation from the standard of conduct that a reasonable person would follow in the same situation. i.e. driver was intoxicated and gets into an accident and kills someone.

4) Aggravated Manslaughter:
A person is guilty of aggravated manslaughter if he recklessly causes the death of another person under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to human life. Classic example is shooting into a crowd with no intent to kill anyone just to scare them. Then you end up killing someone. That is Aggravted Manslaughter

5) Murder: This is the intentional killing of someone. I pull out a gun and I purposely shoot someone.

There are other things that can be murder too. i.e.,Felony murder. you are committing a robbery with no intent to kill someone, but by accident the victim dies. A person will be on the hook for murder.

A person dies at the hand of another in all of these examples, yet completely different results under the law.

 

[Pirata]

Sure

If a person kills another it does not mean it is murder. IT can be a crime or perhaps no crime at all. It all depends on the facts and the mental state of the "killer".

1) Accident I was cleaning my gun and I didn't realize there was a bullet in it. It fired and I killed somoene. No crime. Tragic Accident.

2) Justifiable/Self Defense: I killed someone who was coming at me with a knife. Justifiable homicide due to self defense. No Crime.

3) Manslaughter: A person who causes another's death does so recklessly when he is aware of and consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that death will result from his/her conduct. The disregard of that risk is a gross deviation from the standard of conduct that a reasonable person would follow in the same situation. i.e. driver was intoxicated and gets into an accident and kills someone.

4) Aggravated Manslaughter:
A person is guilty of aggravated manslaughter if he recklessly causes the death of another person under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to human life. Classic example is shooting into a crowd with no intent to kill anyone just to scare them. Then you end up killing someone. That is Aggravted Manslaughter

5) Murder: This is the intentional killing of someone. I pull out a gun and I purposely shoot someone.

There are other things that can be murder too. i.e.,Felony murder. you are committing a robbery with no intent to kill someone, but by accident the victim dies. A person will be on the hook for murder.

A person dies at the hand of another in all of these examples, yet completely different results under the law.

I think most people understand this.

I was more referring to the part where you said, "People think that if someone dies, it is a murder."

I think people know the difference from dying in an accident and murder. They may not understand the detailed nuances of the different murder types (which vary from State to State).

 

[PiratePride]

From Cern:
1) Accident I was cleaning my gun and I didn't realize there was a bullet in it. It fired and I killed somoene. No crime. Tragic Accident.

2) Justifiable/Self Defense: I killed someone who was coming at me with a knife. Justifiable homicide due to self defense. No Crime.

3) Manslaughter: A person who causes another's death does so recklessly when he is aware of and consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that death will result from his/her conduct. The disregard of that risk is a gross deviation from the standard of conduct that a reasonable person would follow in the same situation. i.e. driver was intoxicated and gets into an accident and kills someone.

4) Aggravated Manslaughter:
A person is guilty of aggravated manslaughter if he recklessly causes the death of another person under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to human life. Classic example is shooting into a crowd with no intent to kill anyone just to scare them. Then you end up killing someone. That is Aggravted Manslaughter

5) Murder: This is the intentional killing of someone. I pull out a gun and I purposely shoot someone.

This is somewhat off topic, but where does the Alec Baldwin incident fall under the parameters above? I was first thinking accident but then recklessness comes into play since he pointed the weapon at the director and pulled the trigger ( a real no no with gun safety). With recklessness involved, could it take it to the mansaughter level. I would think not given that it was done in the context of making a movie. But what do I know? Tragic accident IMO.

These incidents always remind me of my time in the service when I almost had an accidental discharge and would have possibly absent mindedly killed someone behind the firing line of a service weapon practice exercise. The Grace of God literally interjected some awareness into my brain and I avoided a potential catastrophe. I get sweaty palms just thinking about it some 50 years later. I shook after facing down range when I pulled the trigger of my .45 cal pistol and hearing the shot fire off from what I thought was an empty weapon. And I should have known better to assume an empty chamber.

 

[cernjSHU]

[

From Cern:
1) Accident I was cleaning my gun and I didn't realize there was a bullet in it. It fired and I killed somoene. No crime. Tragic Accident.

2) Justifiable/Self Defense: I killed someone who was coming at me with a knife. Justifiable homicide due to self defense. No Crime.

3) Manslaughter: A person who causes another's death does so recklessly when he is aware of and consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that death will result from his/her conduct. The disregard of that risk is a gross deviation from the standard of conduct that a reasonable person would follow in the same situation. i.e. driver was intoxicated and gets into an accident and kills someone.

4) Aggravated Manslaughter:
A person is guilty of aggravated manslaughter if he recklessly causes the death of another person under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to human life. Classic example is shooting into a crowd with no intent to kill anyone just to scare them. Then you end up killing someone. That is Aggravted Manslaughter

5) Murder: This is the intentional killing of someone. I pull out a gun and I purposely shoot someone.

This is somewhat off topic, but where does the Alec Baldwin incident fall under the parameters above? I was first thinking accident but then recklessness comes into play since he pointed the weapon at the director and pulled the trigger ( a real no no with gun safety). With recklessness involved, could it take it to the mansaughter level. I would think not given that it was done in the context of making a movie. But what do I know? Tragic accident IMO.

These incidents always remind me of my time in the service when I almost had an accidental discharge and would have possibly absent mindedly killed someone behind the firing line of a service weapon practice exercise. The Grace of God literally interjected some awareness into my brain and I avoided a potential catastrophe. I get sweaty palms just thinking about it some 50 years later. I shook after facing down range when I pulled the trigger of my .45 cal pistol and hearing the shot fire off from what I thought was an empty weapon. And I should have known better to assume an empty chamber.

Accidents happen. And accidents can be negligence but that is a civil matter not criminal. In the Alec Baldwin incident, it is a terrible tragedy but it is an accident. There is no criminal liability for Baldwin. Now, in the civil context, negligence is an issue for many people. But that’s damages in a civil law suit and not criminal.

Thankfully for you, That slip did not result in a tragedy. But that how things happen.

 

[Pirata]

Negligent Homicide Definition - A Defense Attorney Explains

Negligent homicide is defined as a crime where you commit some act of criminal negligence, and the act results in the killing of another person.

www.shouselaw.com

 

[cernjSHU]

Negligent Homicide Definition - A Defense Attorney Explains

Negligent homicide is defined as a crime where you commit some act of criminal negligence, and the act results in the killing of another person.

www.shouselaw.com

Negligent homicide is similar to what in NJ is reckless manslaughter. Criminal negligent is not the same as simple negligence in the civil law context. In the Baldwin case, there is no way criminal charges attach to him. No movie set is ever supposed to have live ammo. That fact alone makes this a no criminal event for him.

 

[Pirata]

I was not suggesting that Baldwin's situation was criminal. Let a jury decide if it comes to that. As of yet he has not been charged criminally. I do not believe charging has been ruled out.

I was pointing out that negligence can rise to a criminal level depending on the circumstances.

With Baldwin, it seems they were using live rounds for target practice to give the actors the feel of gun and shooting.

I know on other sets (read about the Brandon Lee shooting) the armorer would have live rounds because that is what some use to make the blanks. You take the bullet off the casing, remove some of the gun powder, crimp the casing to hold the powder in, and voila, you have blank.