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New thread re the Pandemic AND the racial unrest

Halldan1

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Jan 1, 2003
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All previous threads have been transferred to the Off the Ship board.

This thread will be the only one that stays here regarding the two above topics for those that want to discuss the situations RATIONALLY and without the rancor that has dominated the past threads.

Please, emotionally incendiary as these topics are there is no reason they cannot be debated/discussed in a civil manner without name calling and the like.

Think before you post and state your opinions in a courteous and thoughtful manner.
 
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https://nypost.com/2020/06/14/kyrie-irving-will-lose-nba-battle-to-lebron-james-patrick-beverley/

James will win NBA restart battle: Patrick Beverley

By Zach Braziller

June 14, 2020 | 8:10pm | Updated


MORE ON:
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If LeBron James wants the NBA to return, then that’s what will happen. That’s Patrick Beverley’s prediction, no matter what Kyrie Irving, Dwight Howard or anyone else says.

The Clippers’ pesky defensive-minded guard went on Twitter to make that clear, writing Sunday that “Hoopers say what y’all want. If @King James said he hooping. We all hooping. Not personal only BUSINESS.”

Beverley added the hashtag “StayWoke” four ‘prayer’ emojis and three raised black fist emojis.

The NBA’s 22-team return-to-play format has already been approved by the NBA’s Player’s Association, though it appears not everyone was on board.

On Friday night, the injured Nets star Irving led a conference call of over 80 players in which he discussed the possibility of skipping the July 30 restart at Disney’s ESPN Wide World of Sports, as he fears it could distract from the current “Black Lives Matter” movement support by many NBA players.

James, who reportedly was not on the call, is believed to be in favor of the plan to return to action and doesn’t think that it would distract from the battle against social injustice and police brutality. James announced the formation of a voting rights group, along with Hawks guard Trae Young, in hopes of increasing black voter turnout and ending black voter suppression.

“Because of everything that’s going on, people are finally starting to listen to us,” James told the New York Times. “We feel like we’re finally getting a foot in the door. How long is up to us. We don’t know. But we feel like we’re getting some ears and some attention, and this is the time for us to finally make a difference.”

Several players have come out on both sides of the matter, some supporting James and others like Howard getting behind Irving. But only the voice one player – James – truly matters, Beverley believes.
 
https://nypost.com/2020/06/14/nascars-ray-ciccarelli-opens-up-after-fiery-confederate-flag-post/

NASCAR’s Ray Ciccarelli says family has been ‘abused’ over Confederate flag post

By Zach Braziller

June 14, 2020 | 10:02pm

Ray Ciccarelli, the NASCAR driver who threatened to quit after the sport banned the Confederate flag, tried to set the record straight about his controversial post on Facebook, saying he believes his thoughts were misconstrued but doesn’t regret what he said.

Ciccarelli took part in the NASCAR Gander RV & Outdoors Truck Series this weekend, finishing 29th, and isn’t sure if he will follow through on his threat about selling off his CMI Motorsports team following the 2020 season.

“I wasn’t raised the way people are portraying me to be. That’s just not me,” Ciccarelli told TobyChristie.com. “I am not that type of person. Just the attack — my wife, my family have been attacked and abused on social media. It’s just heartbreaking.”

But he doesn’t regret what he wrote in the Facebook post, either, even if he has since deactivated his Facebook page. He insisted he wasn’t defending the Confederate flag. In the post, he wrote that he would quit after the 2020 season and “I don’t believe in kneeling during Anthem nor taken ppl right to fly whatever flag they love.”

In the follow-up interview, the 50-year-old said “everything I was saying was the fact that I understand both sides’ feelings toward the flag/ My viewpoint, all I was trying to say is how do you take [the flag] from one group and help support the group that it offends and then what do you do to the group that you took it from? Now, they get outraged.

“I guess I was just sitting there. I had seen the news thing come through referring to, NASCAR now allows you to kneel during the anthem. It just irritated me some,” Ciccarelli explained. “I believe in standing for the national anthem, and I believe that if you want to kneel during the anthem, you should kneel. It just kind of triggered me, because we’re being told you can’t kneel, now you can kneel. It just set me off.

“We’re told one thing that we can’t do, then you’re told you can do,” Ciccarelli added. “Just to go back, about two years during the [Colin] Kaepernick deal, NASCAR did release a statement stating that team owners should take action to any teammates that decide to kneel during the national anthem. It was not going to be condoned what-so-ever.”

As for if he still plans to leave NASCAR, Cicarelli wouldn’t commit either way.

“That’s TBA,” he said.
 
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/...0200615-vvr3h3bgsrer7n5nbtrev4bob4-story.html

Irving won’t shut up and dribble


By KRISTIAN WINFIELD

NEW YORK DAILY NEWS |
JUN 15, 2020 | 7:00 AM

This is no different from the time Kyrie Irving side-stepped Stephen Curry and hit the shot that delivered the Cavaliers their first title in 2016. It’s no different from the turnaround fadeaway shot he hit over Klay Thompson seven months later on Christmas Day.

It’s no different from the would-have-been game-winner he attempted over Josh Okogie in his first game as a Brooklyn Net, and it’s no different from the game-winning shot he hit over RJ Barrett — from the same spot with the same move he used on Curry — to beat the Knicks earlier this season.

Irving is trying to win this game. Only this is a game being played off the court.

The Nets point guard spearheaded a call of approximately 80 players — including Carmelo Anthony, Dwight Howard, Chris Paul, Kevin Durant, Donovan Mitchell and Avery Bradley — on Friday night, where the group discussed ways to use their platform in order to attack racial injustice, systemic racism and police brutality, according to The Athletic.

“I don’t support going into Orlando,” Irving reportedly told the players. “I’m not with the systematic racism and the bullshit. … Something smells a little fishy. Whether we want to admit it or not, we are targeted as black men every day we wake up.”

Irving isn’t even healthy. If the NBA does indeed return from its coronavirus hiatus in the agreed-upon bubble at Walt Disney Resorts in Orlando, Irving will be less player and more cheerleader. He underwent arthroscopic shoulder surgery on March 3 after enduring a right shoulder impingement with bursitis that limited him to just 20 games this season.

Functionally, Irving’s opinion shouldn’t matter as a player with little risk compared to those who plan to compete. But Irving wants to make sure it’s the revolution that is televised — not basketball.

Things are far from functional in a United States where black people are targeted and killed by police officers at an alarming, disturbingly disproportionate rate — the same black people who comprise 80.7% of NBA players (as of 2018) but account for just six of the league’s 30 full-time head coaches and only one (Michael Jordan) of the 30 team owners. (Bucks co-owner Marc Lasry is the only other owner of color. He is Moroccan-American.)

George Floyd’s death at the hands of a Minneapolis Police Department officer who kneeled on his neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds has spurred mass protests across the nation.

Howard publicly supported Irving’s stance on Sunday.

“I agree with Kyrie,” he wrote in a statement to CNN. “Basketball, or entertainment period, isn’t what’s needed at the moment and will only be a distraction. … No basketball until we get things resolved.”

The revolution has been televised, but the resolution remains undefined. One popular course of action has been to call for the defunding police departments and to give taxpayers autonomy over where their tax dollars go. The Minneapolis City Council has already unanimously voted to abolish its police department and replace it with a community-led public safety system.

Another has been quite simply arresting, charging and sentencing the officers responsible for senseless black deaths who have yet to be brought to justice.

Breonna Taylor, for example, was killed on March 13 by police officers in plain clothes who used a battering ram to execute a no-knock warrant in search of a suspect who had already been located elsewhere.

They shot Taylor “at least” eight times. None of the officers responsible for her death have been arrested.

NBA players are in a unique position, able to leverage their platform and influence on the public to bring about change. Irving, and others who have banded together in the wake of the Friday players’ call, wants to make sure the players truly use that platform for good, not to take attention away from social issues.

They want to do the same thing Paul, Anthony, LeBron James and Dwyane Wade did, using their platform during the 2016 ESPYs to divert attention from sports to the killings of Alton Sterling and Philando Castille.

“The system is broken. The problems are not new. The violence is not new. And the racial divide definitely is not new,” Anthony said in his introduction that night. “But the urgency to create change is at an all-time high.”

Irving, Howard and others will not shut up and dribble. For Howard, who has yet to win a championship but is currently playing for the championship favorites, it’s admirable. Irving is seizing the moment — a moment many have never experienced and one that has arisen under circumstances that may not be replicated for another two-thousand and twenty years.

A viral infection has put the world on lockdown. Basketball, along with other pro sports and other forms of televised entertainment, is a common getaway from the harsh realities of everyday life.

Players could very well use their return to play to spread a message of unity in Orlando. But they will eventually return to play. Headlines will read unity and activism one day, then box score and basketball every day after.

A return to play could have no more of an impact than other corporate attempts to make a statement, such as Call of Duty’s Black Lives Matter splash page: A short-lived message condemning racial inequality that quickly fades to black when you start the game, becoming nothing more than a forgotten plea overtaken by kill-death ratio and an eventual winner and loser.

And it’s important to note that not all players feel the same way Irving and Howard do. “Some of us want to hoop and compete,” Lakers forward Kyle Kuzma tweeted in response to news of Irving’s call, “don’t get it twisted.”

“Hoopers say what y’all want. If [LeBron James] said he hooping, we all hooping,” Clippers point guard Patrick Beverley tweeted on Sunday. “Not personal, only business.”

James, of course, has been the most outspoken proponent of resuming the season amid the coronavirus pandemic: “Saw some reports about execs and agents wanting to cancel season??? That’s absolutely not true,” he tweeted on April 30. “Nobody I know saying anything like that. As soon as it’s safe we would like to finish our season. I’m ready and our team is ready. Nobody should be canceling anything.”

A week later, video of two white men pursuing then shooting and killing 26-year-old Ahmaud Arbery -- who was out for a jog in his own neighborhood of Brunswick, Ga. — went viral. James was outspoken about Arbery’s death, as well.

James, though, wants a return to play, ostensibly to win championship ring No. 4 and shorten the gap between himself and Michael Jordan as the greatest NBA player of all-time. Irving filed for divorce from James in July of 2017.

The only thing Irving is disrupting other than James’ championship hopes is the status quo: of black lives being valued less by police than their white counterparts, and of protests and social activism movements that gain traction then fall flat after months of work with no tangible results.

That’s something worth disrupting. Even if it costs a hundred million dollars.
 
Dude led fbs in rushing
So? If he doesn’t like his coach because he watches a different news channel then he can transfer to another D1 (after making sure the new coach falls into lockstep with everything he believes 100%, don’t want him crying himself to sleep at night because the coach prefers his toilet paper under and this snowflake prefers it over) and sit out a year (watching a different station for your news should not constitute a hardship for immediate eligibility) or drop down a level and play immediately. Honestly, maybe he can be the one to lead guys to the HBCU’s.
 
So? If he doesn’t like his coach because he watches a different news channel then he can transfer to another D1 (after making sure the new coach falls into lockstep with everything he believes 100%, don’t want him crying himself to sleep at night because the coach prefers his toilet paper under and this snowflake prefers it over) and sit out a year (watching a different station for your news should not constitute a hardship for immediate eligibility) or drop down a level and play immediately. Honestly, maybe he can be the one to lead guys to the HBCU’s.
You can make your point without using the term snowflake against the football member
 
So? If he doesn’t like his coach because he watches a different news channel then he can transfer to another D1 (after making sure the new coach falls into lockstep with everything he believes 100%, don’t want him crying himself to sleep at night because the coach prefers his toilet paper under and this snowflake prefers it over) and sit out a year (watching a different station for your news should not constitute a hardship for immediate eligibility) or drop down a level and play immediately. Honestly, maybe he can be the one to lead guys to the HBCU’s.
Most of the time it’s the players that call the shots. That’s college sports. As a head coach 70% of your job is to pander to the players.
 
You can make your point without using the term snowflake against the football member
The guy is upset because his coach apparently watches a news show he doesn’t like. Sorry, he’s a snowflake. If the news station his coach watched was a top concern maybe he should have asked about that during the recruiting process. The coach who watches CNN is probably kicking himself for not bringing it up! This seemingly has absolutely nothing to do with how his coach has treated him or the university but everything to do with what channel his coach watches for the 11 o’clock news. Think about that.
 
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The guy is upset because his coach apparently watches a news show he doesn’t like. Sorry, he’s a snowflake. If the news station his coach watched was a top concern maybe he should have asked about that during the recruiting process. The coach who watches CNN is probably kicking himself for not bringing it up!. This seemingly has absolutely nothing to do with how his coach has treated him or the university but everything to do with what channel his coach watches for the 11 o’clock news. Think about that.
Please do not use that term here, Halldan i politely ask you to advise people that post here to refrain from using that term on all 3 of the boards...

The player is black, OAN has personalities that have had very strong opinions against Black Lives Matter.
 
Please do not use that term here, Halldan i politely ask you to advise people that post here to refrain from using that term on all 3 of the boards...

The player is black, OAN has personalities that have had very strong opinions against Black Lives Matter.
You are no better than this kid demanding that his coach believe as he does. Please, put me on ignore and do not respond to my posts. Truth does not seem to be something you can handle.
 
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I give up. At my discretion as monitor I will choose when to transfer all threads of this nature.
 
I give up. At my discretion as monitor I will choose when to transfer all threads of this nature.
Transfering threads to LOTS is just making it a dump site. People can have and give opinions and debate without name calling and being antagonistic vs other board members.
 
So now the coach will have someone approve his outfit before he goes out and/or is photographed and they won’t discuss what news show they watched the night before at team meetings. Brilliant!

No social distancing or masks in this video. Who on the team gets upset next?

He can watch any news he wants, he can watch a documentary on europe in the 1930s on how hitler and mussolini were strong statesmen if he wanted to
 
Can he though?
Of course he can. But he will have to deal with the consequences. “I want to have strong political opinions, but I also want kids who oppose those opinions to like me“ is snowflake, millennial garbage. Stand up for what you believe in or STFU and wear normal clothes.
 
Of course he can. But he will have to deal with the consequences. “I want to have strong political opinions, but I also want kids who oppose those opinions to like me“ is snowflake, millennial garbage. Stand up for what you believe in or STFU and wear normal clothes.

Why should there be consequences for wearing a shirt of a news organization? You can wear a CNN or MSNBC shirt, I might laugh at it but I won't try to cancel you.
 
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Why should there be consequences for wearing a shirt of a news organization? You can wear a CNN or MSNBC shirt, I might laugh at it but I won't try to cancel you.
Why should there be consequences for wearing cotton foot coverings with cartoon pigs on them? Don’t be obtuse. Gundy wore a t-Shirt universally associated with a far right political viewpoint. He is at liberty to do so because he is a private citizen (at least while fishing) in a free country that does not suppress political speech. He is not, however, free from alienating or angering other private citizens (such as his players) who have an opposing viewpoint. There are no safe spaces in the political arena.
 
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Why should there be consequences for wearing cotton foot coverings with cartoon pigs on them? Don’t be obtuse. Gundy wore a t-Shirt universally associated with a far right political viewpoint. He is at liberty to do so because he is a private citizen (at least while fishing) in a free country that does not suppress political speech. He is not, however, free from alienating or angering other private citizens (such as his players) who have an opposing viewpoint. There are no safe spaces in the political arena.

He didn't alienate anyone with a t shirt. If it was a far left shirt news organization it's okay? Now you're picking what political ideologies people can have?

Kap called cops pigs and supported Castro a dictator and no, he wasnt canceled. His loud mouth was deemed too provocative for his talent level by NFL GMs
 
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Why should there be consequences for wearing cotton foot coverings with cartoon pigs on them? Don’t be obtuse. Gundy wore a t-Shirt universally associated with a far right political viewpoint. He is at liberty to do so because he is a private citizen (at least while fishing) in a free country that does not suppress political speech. He is not, however, free from alienating or angering other private citizens (such as his players) who have an opposing viewpoint. There are no safe spaces in the political arena.

LOL, you forgot to mention that the cartoon pigs were depicting policemen. So the rest of your post equally applies to Colon Kaepernick.
 
He didn't alienate anyone with a t shirt. If it was a far left shirt news organization it's okay? Now you're picking what political ideologies people can have?

Kap called cops pigs and supported Castro a dictator and no, he wasnt canceled. His loud mouth was deemed too provocative for his talent level by NFL GMs
I never said it would be okay to wear a left wing news shirt. Please don't put words in my mouth. I said that Mike Gundy made a clear political statement (just like Kaepernick when he wore the pig socks) and should expect to deal with the consequences of that decision. For Kaepernick, the consequences were pissing off a large segment of the population (including many ardent supporters of the police and military). For Gundy, the consequences were pissing off liberals and sympathizers of the black lives matter movement (including at least one of his players).

Kaepernick was "cancelled" by the right wing. Gundy is being "cancelled" by the left wing. What's the difference?
 
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I never said it would be okay to wear a left wing news shirt. Please don't put words in my mouth. I said that Mike Gundy made a clear political statement (just like Kaepernick when he wore the pig socks) and should expect to deal with the consequences of that decision. For Kaepernick, the consequences were pissing off a large segment of the population (including many ardent supporters of the police and military). For Gundy, the consequences were pissing off liberals and sympathizers of the black lives matter movement (including at least one of his players).

Kaepernick was "cancelled" by the right wing. Gundy is being "cancelled" by the left wing. What's the difference?

Except Gundy hasn't been cancelled because the school did not cave, an L for the liberals who don't believe in free speech. Gundys shirt was worn on a fishing trip with his kids, he didn't wear the shirt to an OSU event or wear it during a game. Kap brought his protest to an arena it shouldn't be in, people don't like it, hence the NFL deemed he wasn't worth the headache.
 
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LOL, you forgot to mention that the cartoon pigs were depicting policemen. So the rest of your post equally applies to Colon Kaepernick.
Where did I say the rest of my post does not apply to Collin Kaepernick? Anyone who makes a political statement does so at the expense of offending or alienating the other side.
 
Except Gundy hasn't been cancelled because the school did not cave, an L for the liberals who don't believe in free speech. Gundys shirt was worn on a fishing trip with his kids, he didn't wear the shirt to an OSU event or wear it during a game. Kap brought his protest to an arena it shouldn't be in, people don't like it, hence the NFL deemed he wasn't worth the headache.
Gundy couldn't be fired (or even disciplined) by Oklahoma State because they are a public school. Absent extenuating circumstances, our fine constitution prohibits government employers from suppressing the private political speech of their employees. So lucky for Gundy (unlike Kap), he can say or wear whatever he wants during his fishing trips or in any other private endeavor.

He can't be a snowflake about it though. He has to be ready to deal with the backlash from other private citizens, such players, recruits, fans, the "liberal media," etc.
 
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