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Next year for AD and IW

Sep 27, 2014
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Port St Lucie Fl
Now that there is a pause in our out of conference schedule with the hardest part starting Saturday, here is my question about AD & IW. In each of the following scenario do they leave or stay?

1. The team develops and the sophomores start playing like junior in Febuary and March. We make the NCAA. Do they leave or stay?

2. We continue playing like we have been playing. We pull some upsets and lose some we should not have lost. We finish with between 16 and 18 wins. Go to the NIT. Do they leave or stay?

3. We do our usual February nose dive . No post season. Do they leave or stay?
Which of the above occurs will be dependent on how well they play not only as individuals but how they contribute to the total team play. Please leave coach Willard out of this discussion.
 
IMO, if IW is a sure fire #1 draft choice, he leaves. I am not sure how the team does figures into that. I am not saying IW plays for himself and doesn't care about winning. I think neither is true. And right now i think it is clear he isn't a #1. He IS way better than most of us think.

No clue about what is driving AD.
 
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When Dan posted the draft experts "big board"...

IW was like #90 in the top 100 and AD wasn't on the list.

So theoretically IW has to jump 60 spots and if AD was let's say #101 he has to jump atleast 71 spots.

I don't see that happening. IMHO.
 
The world of college basketball today is totally unpredictable. I don't believe 90% of what comes out of the players mouth, their parents or their camp. It's a big business now and quite frankly I don't blame them for sending mixed signals. With that said, there is no certainty whether Isaiah or Angel come back next year. And if they move on good for them. That's the nature of the game. Remember last year Pat Auda was a 99% lock to come back.
 
They will not be drafted by the NBA.
If they'd rather make a few bucks somewhere sooner than later, they're gone.
No one knows.
 
They will not be drafted by the NBA.
If they'd rather make a few bucks somewhere sooner than later, they're gone.
No one knows.
Isaiah wants to leave as soon as possible. He has not made that a secret and he has every right to want to do that.

But the question becomes is he a first round draft choice? His play both in practice, where NBA scout are constantly watching him and of course in games will dictate if he gets invited to the post season NBA camp for potential draft eligible players.

After the camp he along with all other invitees will be given a realistic summary of his status and then he'll make a decision.

No friends and family in his ears. No agents. Just NBA people with the facts.

Regarding Angel. I just don't see the NBA in his immediate future. So that means the only way he leaves is via transfer or playing overseas, maybe in his home country.

IMO neither will happen.
 
We've all seen players leave early when they're not ready for the NBA and against the advice of NBA scouts so I generally discount any speculation as to whether that type of player will leave or stay and that includes AD and IW. What I do know if one or both leave KW must recruit some high quality talent to replace them as we can't afford any drop in the talent level of this team.
 
The only way IW leaves is if we are a disaster and he just wants to get out and go D League or something. Still a possibility LOL.

If IW went to a top school he probably would be in the NBA after this year. He is much better with better players around him, or at least guys who can catch his passes
 
Hard to leave KW out of it, since his status could determine whether a transfer is one of the possible scenarios, but my guess is neither will be considered 1st round locks. Definitely not AD. I see them both having the talent to play there eventually for sure, but doesn't appear either will be ready after this season.

Playing overseas for either is the wild card. Both will have opportunities for that.

How many college players went overseas and eventually had successful NBA careers?
 
I think it is is pretty simple and everyone around the program knows that IW won't be back next year. He came for one but injuries and not be a natural PG brought him back for a second year. He WILL NOT be back for a third. That is locked.
 
I think it is is pretty simple and everyone around the program knows that IW won't be back next year. He came for one but injuries and not be a natural PG brought him back for a second year. He WILL NOT be back for a third. That is locked.
And that will be the last time anyone watches IW play basketball in america
 
Neither are 1st Round picks yet. Not even close. Whitehead maybe could be if he has a strong season, but after 5 games he isn't even a proficient college player yet. You're talking about someone shooting 379 with a weak A:T mark and about 4 turnovers per game. If he didn't have so much hype, it wouldn't even be a post.

An NBA team isn't taking him on has a project; he needs to be refined. Right now he has the physical skills, but not the type of efficient, effective game needed to be drafted. Sorry, but it's true.
 
It's only November and a lot can change between now and March. Remember last year IW was hurt and he's learning a new position on the job. What if he improves and explodes in his last 5-6 games this year. Not unusual for a sophomore with his talent. You don't think someone might take a chance on him? What if he projects as a second round or likely free agent to be picked up. Where would he be better served to improve next year? What if we have another Feb/Mar collapse.

And remember, there are no guarantees where he would project after his junior year. I wouldn't be surprised if he stayed or left, but there are so many variables and we really don't know his thought process.
 
It's only November and a lot can change between now and March. Remember last year IW was hurt and he's learning a new position on the job. What if he improves and explodes in his last 5-6 games this year. Not unusual for a sophomore with his talent. You don't think someone might take a chance on him? What if he projects as a second round or likely free agent to be picked up. Where would he be better served to improve next year? What if we have another Feb/Mar collapse.

And remember, there are no guarantees where he would project after his junior year. I wouldn't be surprised if he stayed or left, but there are so many variables and we really don't know his thought process.

I agree all is possible at this early stage. He has the size and physical tools. But making that jump within one season would be impressive. I think come late-February it'll be clearer. He's either a "no doubt" guy or a return guy. I think it's always better to develop in college than some NBA camp, D-League, etc.

There are a number of bones alongside the road of overzealous NBA dreams. IW has potential, that's for sure.
 
But you end up with a college degree which is worth more than a million in future earnings, than with just a high school diploma.
I don't think a lot of the kids think this way though which is sad. There is also nothing stopping them from going back to school if they don't stick. We had a kid from our H.S. a few years ago that got a signing bonus from the Phillies for $500 or $600K rather than go to college. He ended up having rotator cuff issue and is probably going to wash out...but he's got a lot of money to go pursue that college degree now.
 
whitehead= gone
Respectfully, where is he going?

The same thing was said by the same people last year. But he's still in Blue.

I fully understand he wants to go to the NBA as soon as possible. But so do I and my phone isn't ringing. :)

He will leave when the time is right and if that's at season's end then he had a great sophomore year and we all should wish him well.
 
Respectfully, where is he going?

The same thing was said by the same people last year. But he's still in Blue.

I fully understand he wants to go to the NBA as soon as possible. But so do I and my phone isn't ringing. :)

He will leave when the time is right and if that's at season's end then he had a great sophomore year and we all should wish him well.

+1

I hope he has a fantastic year and this is a topic at the end of the season. I can't imagine him having that kind of season without us having a big year at the same time. So I'm all for it.

Getting to the NCAA Tournament and putting players in the NBA is what it's all about for any program. Those are huge selling points for our program. We haven't done either in 10+ years. Eddie Griffin and Sam Dalembert were 14 years ago and 11 for Andre Barrett; when the current recruits were little kids.

I don't begrudge any college player who leaves to pursue a professional career. College will always be there. Yes, I know it's free while on scholarship, but if they do leave and are successful overseas or wherever, the cost of eventually completing the balance of their degree shouldn't be a big deal at all. The whole idea is to make money to live, so whichever way you do that, God bless you.

He does need to be judicious in which avenue he pursues though.
 
Eddie Griffin and Sam Dalembert were 14 years ago and 11 for Andre Barrett; when the current recruits were little kids.

He does need to be judicious in which avenue he pursues though.
Agree. Last thing I would want to see is for him to get bad advice or make the wrong decision. Hopefully the way the process is set up now will help him make the best decision for his future. Seems like a good kid and we're fortunate to have him playing for us.

14 years for Dalembert? Wow, that just made me feel old :(
 
When Dan posted the draft experts "big board"...

IW was like #90 in the top 100 and AD wasn't on the list.

So theoretically IW has to jump 60 spots and if AD was let's say #101 he has to jump atleast 71 spots.

I don't see that happening. IMHO.
Yes, I know. And I
Staying in college is no guarantee as well for making the NBA.
Yup. Unless you are the top 5 level guys, imo you have to go #1 the first time you know it is gonna happen. I always remember Cuse's John Wallace. He stayed for his Sr year. Had a great year, lead them to a surprising run to the FF, and got picked lower than he would have if he left earlier.
 
Eddie Griffin and Sam Dalembert were 14 years ago and 11 for Andre Barrett; when the current recruits were little kids.
rivOGH4.jpg
 
Ironically, the guy who could have left for NBA money after Freshmen year was our own Shaheen Holloway. But he decided to stay in hopes of being drafted higher plus he also had a child who lived in NY C.
,
I think that's the story anyway. ( correct me guys)But the NBA never happened for him.

BUT he made some nice money playing pro in various places and coaching. And with his college degree he'll always have a job as a coach. .

And now IW follows Sha around to learn the ropes so He can get to the NBA
.
(At his Senior Year basketball banquet, Sha said to his mom. " I'm going to buy you that house. I don't know how but I'm going to do it. I hope Sha's Mom finally got that house.)
 
There are very few times staying in college is the right idea. If you have the shot take it ASAP.

But in this case IW doesnt have that shot. Unless the sixers take him as one of their tank pieces.
 
Ironically, the guy who could have left for NBA money after Freshmen year was our own Shaheen Holloway. But he decided to stay in hopes of being drafted higher plus he also had a child who lived in NY C.
,
I think that's the story anyway. ( correct me guys)But the NBA never happened for him.

BUT he made some nice money playing pro in various places and coaching. And with his college degree he'll always have a job as a coach. .

And now IW follows Sha around to learn the ropes so He can get to the NBA
.
(At his Senior Year basketball banquet, Sha said to his mom. " I'm going to buy you that house. I don't know how but I'm going to do it. I hope Sha's Mom finally got that house.)
Ironically, the guy who could have left for NBA money after Freshmen year was our own Shaheen Holloway. But he decided to stay in hopes of being drafted higher plus he also had a child who lived in NY C.
,
I think that's the story anyway. ( correct me guys)But the NBA never happened for him.

BUT he made some nice money playing pro in various places and coaching. And with his college degree he'll always have a job as a coach. .

And now IW follows Sha around to learn the ropes so He can get to the NBA
.
(At his Senior Year basketball banquet, Sha said to his mom. " I'm going to buy you that house. I don't know how but I'm going to do it. I hope Sha's Mom finally got that house.)
ironically Sha tore up his ankle in the NCAA his senior year hurting his draft status. Stuff happens.
 
But you end up with a college degree which is worth more than a million in future earnings, than with just a high school diploma.
as an 11 year pro worker after shu i disagree with this comment; degrees don't guarantee anything? how many undergrads get diplomas and walk straight to unemployment after that? a lot sadly
 
+1

I hope he has a fantastic year and this is a topic at the end of the season. I can't imagine him having that kind of season without us having a big year at the same time. So I'm all for it.

Getting to the NCAA Tournament and putting players in the NBA is what it's all about for any program. Those are huge selling points for our program. We haven't done either in 10+ years. Eddie Griffin and Sam Dalembert were 14 years ago and 11 for Andre Barrett; when the current recruits were little kids.

I don't begrudge any college player who leaves to pursue a professional career. College will always be there. Yes, I know it's free while on scholarship, but if they do leave and are successful overseas or wherever, the cost of eventually completing the balance of their degree shouldn't be a big deal at all. The whole idea is to make money to live, so whichever way you do that, God bless you.

He does need to be judicious in which avenue he pursues though.
nba first round selections are proven failures by gms and team executives; just look at lottery selections from 00-present let alone the rest of the first round, a lot of these dudes don't see 2nd and 3rd contracts with escalated years and salary because they never should have been picked in the inflated drafts to begin with...look at someone like shane larkin, drafted middle of the first round, came out early, undersized can't defend bigger guards and can't do any one thing exceptionally well on the offensive end, rookie deal runs out i really thought he was going to have to go to europe or china but then nets offered 2 years at 3 mil total

as for the shu guys from pirates past, eddie yeah most def was top 3-6 talent in that draft class maybe with the most upside highest ceiling and personal demons and crisis got the best of him and unfortunately is longer with us, sam def maximized is nba longevity with that second deal with the sixers which they had to give him at that time period given the climate of that cba window, great back end of the first round value with immediate defensive impact and anything on offense was gravy, he was an in demand guy

dre proved he totally could play when he had that 04-05 run with the rockets when two of their contracted guards were out with injuries, he really got the shaft on not getting a fair shake after that and i thought he was more deserving than his other cups of coffee with raptors and magic, remember that draft class portland took telfair high and someone as accomplished as jameer nelson fell to 20s, and wasn't he top finalists for all the players of the year in college awards that season?

recently look at guys like jimmer fredette, def not lottery talent, team makes a pick and now he is nbdl, 15/16 guy on an nba roster

look back at 2001 nba draft, of the top 28 picks (all first round) only 5 were at least one all-star team plus one all-nba team and they are still active (pau, joe johnson, z randolph, chandler and tony parker) only one other player was at least a one-time all-star gerald wallace then you have the group that had serviceable careers - sammy d, r jefferson, j richardson, shane battier, troy murphy, jamaal tinsley, jason collins, haywood

so 50 percent was the success rate

let's go to 2007 draft which was the draft of the gators that won back-to-back (first team since duke in 90s) of 30 first round picks 3 players have been at least one nba all-star selection plus one all-nba team and out of the 60 picks in the draft total you can tack on a 4th who was picked in middle of 2nd round (marc gasol) after that you have some current rotation players, a few role guys, one guy in jail and the rest in d league overseas or not playing ball professionally
 
14 years for Dalembert? Wow, that just made me feel old :(

Crazy, isn't? Actually going on 15 years, actually. It was the 2001 NBA draft. We had two first round picks (Griffin and Dalembert). Insane.

I think we'll collectively shake our heads over that 2000-01 team forever, just as much as we remember the 1988-94 teams fondly. That team featured those two 1st Round bigs, an all-time great PG (Barrett), and a prolific 3PT shooter (Lane), and a returning nucleus from the 2000 Sweet Sixteen (Shine, Manga, Morton, etc.), yet all implode because the young coach was in over his head in terms of dealing with the personalities of a highly-touted and hyped freshmen class with core vets who felt slighted.

Sound familiar?

Sigh.
 
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