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Pirates1991

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Jan 17, 2018
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So Timme is making more $$$ in college vs NBA, wonder how many Bunny autograph type sessions that takes

what kind of deals are these guys getting? Do any of our players have individual deals?


Drew Timme told @John_Fanta he will make more money through NIL than he would have in the NBA.

That's big news for college basketball:
 
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I think this will be more common then you think. 70% plus of a roster each year will never sniff pro money and stand to do well with NIL for four years. There will be players (like Timme) who are valued starters but may not project to NBA and have no interest in playing overseas. Play four years and bank a lot of NIL coin.
 
Yes, and this is not unique to Drew Timme.

Elite college players will make upwards of $2M/year in NIL. Unless you are a top ~25 pick in the draft you aren't making that much money. The only catch is that you have to play for a team with a healthy NIL budget because majority of that money is a retention policy funded by boosters - not legitimate NIL deals.

This is why Kofi Cockburn was criticized for turning pro - he would have made more money in college than anywhere else.
 
I think we would've seen this pretty clearly with Powell who was never going to make anything but end of the roster/G-League money in the NBA while being very marketable especially in his senior year. Assuming he would've chosen us in the 1st place with NIL, Whitehead is another case where I could legitimately have seen him stay rather than jump for the shot at a NBA contract,
 
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Powell always wanted to go pro ASAP. But Whitehead? I 100% agree that he would have stayed because he never wanted to leave in the first place, but did so to support his mom who was working multiple jobs at the time.
 
My point on Powell was that he would earn more in college than he would in the NBA - not leaving early considering he was here for 4 years without NIL.
 
Thing is I believe that Powell clearly thought he would be a first round draft choice contrary to everything he was being told.

But your point is solid. Maybe the offers would have been so high that he could have stood in college.

I know for a fact that Paige Bueckers of UConn was offered an NIL deal for $100,000.00 last year and turned it down. And that's a women's BB player with far less options available. Although who knows in the Conn area with that rabid fanbase?
 
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I'm not sure how much Whitehead could have capitalized on NIL though being at Seton Hall. Although he was the type of talent that perhaps you would have had agents and different third-parties interested in securing him as a potential NBA client willing to engage in creative endeavors to get him NIL funds. It seems that's what Andy Miller was doing with him and Tiny anyway -- at least that's insinuated.

Big Oscar from Kentucky 100% stayed in college because of how he was able to maximize NIL. It's been reported. But he's at Kentucky, a blue blood, which is basically the NY Yankees of that region of the country.
 
Thing is I believe that Powell clearly thought he would be a first round draft choice contrary to everything he was being told.

But your point is solid. Maybe the offers would have been so high that he could have stood in college.

I know for a fact that Paige Bueckers of UConn was offered an NIL deal for $100,000.00 last year and turned it down. And that's a women's BB player with far less options available. Although who knows in the Conn area with that rabid fanbase?
Dan - these are the NIL type of deals we need to compete. Eric and others are working their tails off to get this going for the overall team but those events dont compare to a Bueckers type of deal you reference above or what Timmey is getting at Gonzaga. My question, is what are the NIL deals these players getting for that type of $$. I would imagine it is regional vs national advertising etc so with our NY market, there has to be some opportunties for our group
 
I do not have permission to discuss our financial situation with our players and to be honest haven't had the time to invest in other school's deals.

I just know about Bueckers because the person who made the offer told me about it.
 
I'm not sure how much Whitehead could have capitalized on NIL though being at Seton Hall. Although he was the type of talent that perhaps you would have had agents and different third-parties interested in securing him as a potential NBA client willing to engage in creative endeavors to get him NIL funds. It seems that's what Andy Miller was doing with him and Tiny anyway -- at least that's insinuated.

Big Oscar from Kentucky 100% stayed in college because of how he was able to maximize NIL. It's been reported. But he's at Kentucky, a blue blood, which is basically the NY Yankees of that region of the country.
Whitehead's game really took off after the late January game at Creighton. 2 weeks earlier they dismantled us at our place. He became a floor general over night. He really was playing as good of ball as anyone in the country between that Creighton game and our BET Championship. Had he stayed he would've been dominant his junior year and he would've made the guys around him better. I think the biggest moment in Whiteheads career was when he was taken out of the game in overtime vs Wichita State. He took some lumps after that trying to alter his game but once he understood it, he ran with it and another year would've been incredible and I think that would've led to some good NIL opportunities. He would've been the face of the big east other than Jay Wright of course.
 
Amen to how good he was playing, and yes he would have come into his junior year as one of the best players in the Big East for sure, if not in the conversation for best guards in the country. I just don't know what that would mean NIL-wise in this part of the country for a place like Seton Hall.
 
Thing is I believe that Powell clearly thought he would be a first round draft choice contrary to everything he was being told.

But your point is solid. Maybe the offers would have been so high that he could have stood in college.

I know for a fact that Paige Bueckers of UConn was offered an NIL deal for $100,000.00 last year and turned it down. And that's a women's BB player with far less options available. Although who knows in the Conn area with that rabid fanbase?
Nobody (current or recent former players) on our roster has anything near the marketability of Paige Bueckers.

She is arguably the most popular female college basketball player in the country and, as you note, plays for one of the top teams in the country.

She has a multi-year deal with Gatorade (perhaps you've seen the commercials featuring her along with Trevor Lawrence and others) reportedly worth seven figures and several other deals as well. She has trademarked the name "Paige Buckets."

I don't know what kind of deal she turned down but she can probably afford to be pickier than most. She has a legitimate brand to promote and monetize.
 
I would imagine it is regional vs national advertising etc so with our NY market, there has to be some opportunties for our group
The market is irrelevant since these aren't actual name, image, and likeness deals. They are virtually all payment in exchange for playing. I do think Bueckers' name has some marketability in the Nutmeg State, but that's because she is the very best player in the country, playing for a flagship state university in a state that derives much of its identity from the program she plays for.

The 99.99 percent of other college basketball and football players? So very few (Bryce Young in the Heisman House? Fun! And he would not have been in those commercials two years ago) have enough equity in their name, image, or likeness to earn anything close to what they're actually being paid now.

Obviously there are levels of advertising, but how many college basketball players have you actually seen on TV hawking a product? I've seen one, ever (Collin Gillespie humping a local car dealership). I think I've seen two college football players ever - Bryce Young (Nissan Heisman House and Dr Pepper) and DJ Uiagaleilei (I don't even remember what the ad was for, but it was a national spot). I know others have cashed in on a more local level, like that kid from Kansas was was part of their upset of Texas last year, but that was a moment whose value was gone after two weeks, and I can't even think of the kid's name now.
 
My question, is what are the NIL deals these players getting for that type of $$. I would imagine it is regional vs national advertising etc so with our NY market, there has to be some opportunties for our group
Drew Timme is favorite for national player of the year so he has legit marketability and NIL opportunities that aren’t afforded to the average player - especially around March.

However, for the average player not in the running for NPOY they receive their NIL payments via fan collectives and their payments are dependent upon how much alums/boosters donate.

We are at a serious disadvantage because our fans who have the means and desire to donate have nowhere to go. You can Google almost any high major program and within minutes you will find their collective and can make an online donation, buy memorabilia, or just find out more information about their VIP events.

The fans, myself included, really dropped the ball here. We can complain all we want but it’s on us.
 
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The market is irrelevant since these aren't actual name, image, and likeness deals. They are virtually all payment in exchange for playing. I do think Bueckers' name has some marketability in the Nutmeg State, but that's because she is the very best player in the country, playing for a flagship state university in a state that derives much of its identity from the program she plays for.

The 99.99 percent of other college basketball and football players? So very few (Bryce Young in the Heisman House? Fun! And he would not have been in those commercials two years ago) have enough equity in their name, image, or likeness to earn anything close to what they're actually being paid now.

Obviously there are levels of advertising, but how many college basketball players have you actually seen on TV hawking a product? I've seen one, ever (Collin Gillespie humping a local car dealership). I think I've seen two college football players ever - Bryce Young (Nissan Heisman House and Dr Pepper) and DJ Uiagaleilei (I don't even remember what the ad was for, but it was a national spot). I know others have cashed in on a more local level, like that kid from Kansas was was part of their upset of Texas last year, but that was a moment whose value was gone after two weeks, and I can't even think of the kid's name now.
Off the top of my head, I can think of two nationally known brands that have NIL deals with multiple athletes (men and women) across various sports. One is Outback Steakhouse and the other is WWE. I'm sure there are others.

In the case of WWE, it is part of a current initiative to identify and recruit its next crop of talent. These deals don't necessarily mean you'll see these folks in a WWE ring but the company sees value in them being brand ambassadors.
 
The fans, myself included, really dropped the ball here. We can complain all we want but it’s on us.

I disagree. It's not my role as a fan to pump money into a collective for the sole purpose of buying players. That's not college basketball and it isn't why I became a college basketball fan many years ago. If this new world causes Seton Hall to become non-competitive, so be it. We had a good run. This new world is not what the sport is about and it's a red line I will not cross.
 
That’s very fair and I think most would agree, but that is the world of college sports today. I don’t think it’s realistic to consistently compete at the high major level without playing this “game”.

If we don’t play the the NIL game I think we just need to tone down expectations and criticisms if the program struggles.
 
That’s very fair and I think most would agree, but that is the world of college sports today. I don’t think it’s realistic to consistently compete at the high major level without playing this “game”.

If we don’t play the the NIL game I think we just need to tone down expectations and criticisms if the program struggles.
I still can't believe we are so far behind other similarly-situated schools. I get it with the large football schools or certain other basketball crazy institutions. I still can't believe we are so far behind at least half of the Big East though. And many of those larger schools were paying kids anyway long before this. There are only a handful of scholarships that are accounted for each year in men's basketball, and a smaller percentage of that are actually kids who are going to play and be your best players. Even if we can't match the larger schools for NIL, I still think it is possible with good recruiting, player evaluation and player development to find 8-9 players each year who are good BE players. Which is what we've had in recent years and all you need to be able to compete for the NCAA tournament.
 
I still can't believe we are so far behind other similarly-situated schools. I get it with the large football schools or certain other basketball crazy institutions. I still can't believe we are so far behind at least half of the Big East though. And many of those larger schools were paying kids anyway long before this. There are only a handful of scholarships that are accounted for each year in men's basketball, and a smaller percentage of that are actually kids who are going to play and be your best players. Even if we can't match the larger schools for NIL, I still think it is possible with good recruiting, player evaluation and player development to find 8-9 players each year who are good BE players. Which is what we've had in recent years and all you need to be able to compete for the NCAA tournament.
We may be the only Big East team whose hands are tied by state legislation? I believe Rutgers is struggling as well.
 
We may be the only Big East team whose hands are tied by state legislation? I believe Rutgers is struggling as well.
What is NJ law vs NY, PA, RI, CT, DC etc for the rest of our peers regarding NIL? I know NJ is more restrictive but relative to our peers how far behind is it? I know the Midwest schools that all are in same states as Big Ten schools have a massive advantage in this area, but what about our actual peers we’re competing against in the OG Big East schools?
 
What is NJ law vs NY, PA, RI, CT, DC etc for the rest of our peers regarding NIL? I know NJ is more restrictive but relative to our peers how far behind is it? I know the Midwest schools that all are in same states as Big Ten schools have a massive advantage in this area, but what about our actual peers we’re competing against in the OG Big East schools?
From what I understand, I'm not a lawyer, NJ law prohibits a NJ university from assisting a student athlete in obtaining NIL contracts. Rutgers, Seton Hall and all other NJ universities have to be completely hands off when it comes to NIL, very few states have this restriction. NJ schools are trying to figure out how to be involved without violating state regulations, this isn't the case in other states where universities can be much more proactive.
 
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In short when Eric sets up an NIL opportunity for a Pirate player he has to deal directly with said player.

For instance, the NIL event I am working on as noted in this thread...

The best case scenario would have been for this event to occur on campus in the University Center with the coordination of Holloway, Felt and others. Ideal, but not allowed in NJ. Ridiculous, but just another obstacle the Pirates face in a very uneven playing field.
 
What is NJ law vs NY, PA, RI, CT, DC etc for the rest of our peers regarding NIL? I know NJ is more restrictive but relative to our peers how far behind is it? I know the Midwest schools that all are in same states as Big Ten schools have a massive advantage in this area, but what about our actual peers we’re competing against in the OG Big East schools?
When NIL first started I heard that NJ law was restrictive but also heard there were other states with similar restrictions.

Believe some states have since updated laws around this, so not sure if NJ is most restrictive or where they fall among other states.

While not huge fan of what NIL has become, would be nice if all states had similar laws to put all schools on more even ground.
 
I disagree. It's not my role as a fan to pump money into a collective for the sole purpose of buying players. That's not college basketball and it isn't why I became a college basketball fan many years ago. If this new world causes Seton Hall to become non-competitive, so be it. We had a good run. This new world is not what the sport is about and it's a red line I will not cross.

Completely agree. The NIL was meant for players to have their names used in EA Sports College Basketball 2k23 and make money off of that, etc.

Not for me to pay $100 to have a slice of pizza with Kadary Richmond. (No disrespect to Dan or Eric in the slightest).

I already donate to SHU, SHU athletics, Pirate Blue, pay for season tickets, pay for parking. Funding the NIL is a red line for me as well.

Gotta love the new PROFESSIONAL league the NIL has created on the backs of fans.
 
Pat we can't ask for anyone to do more than they financially can. Those that know you know you are a great fan and that's what we all strive for in our own way.

BTW, it's more than one slice of pizza (LOL), but I understand what you're saying.

Also, for our readers who have children the players will sign any memorabilia you bring into the restaurant. Balls, playing cards, blank paper, pictures, whatever.
 
Completely agree. The NIL was meant for players to have their names used in EA Sports College Basketball 2k23 and make money off of that, etc.

Not for me to pay $100 to have a slice of pizza with Kadary Richmond. (No disrespect to Dan or Eric in the slightest).

I already donate to SHU, SHU athletics, Pirate Blue, pay for season tickets, pay for parking. Funding the NIL is a red line for me as well.

Gotta love the new PROFESSIONAL league the NIL has created on the backs of fans.
We understand exactly how you feel and respect your opinion and decision. I have the ability to help a little and I hate that I'm forced into this position by the NCAA. Should Hall fans who have the ability and willingness to help out, stand by and not pitch in, Sha will have a difficult time getting things going. I happen to think Sha can turn lemons into lemonade, but I'd like to see him have the tools needed to compete in the new arena of recruiting. I choose to continue to help where I can, when I can.

I believe that post season success will enable our program to capitalize on outside companies hiring our athletes for marketing. If we are successful, the alumni/fans will not need to financial support the NIL initiative.

It would be nice to see those who have drawn the line on NIL support, not impede/disparage what others are doing to help. Just accept things for what they are, hopefully one day a better system will be in place.
 
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I disagree. It's not my role as a fan to pump money into a collective for the sole purpose of buying players. That's not college basketball and it isn't why I became a college basketball fan many years ago. If this new world causes Seton Hall to become non-competitive, so be it. We had a good run. This new world is not what the sport is about and it's a red line I will not cross.
I understand and agree with it to a certain extent. But we have to play with the cards we are dealt. I do think the NIL will turn the Hall to mid major level. But since I have been a follower the team since I was a freshman in 1985 and saw the glorious run to the Final in my senior year, I just can’t go down without a fight. It may end up being pointless but I’m not ready to let go of 30 years with this team.
 
We may be the only Big East team whose hands are tied by state legislation? I believe Rutgers is struggling as well.
State legislation doesn't help. Neither does operating in a state with some of the highest property taxes and cost of living in the country. The difference between what I pay here for a mortgage, taxes, and daycare vs what those same things would cost me in the locations that 75% of our fellow BE schools reside in....it would allow me to make significantly higher contributions annually.

I have to feel that economics plays some part as to why we lag behind some of our sister schools.
 
What seems counterintuitive of the legislation is that the state invests a fortune into Rutgers athletics every year ($28M towards b-ball practice facility, $100M for football facility, etc.) but then simultaneously passes legislation that makes it extremely difficult to remain competitive in the current environment.
 
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I disagree. It's not my role as a fan to pump money into a collective for the sole purpose of buying players. That's not college basketball and it isn't why I became a college basketball fan many years ago. If this new world causes Seton Hall to become non-competitive, so be it. We had a good run. This new world is not what the sport is about and it's a red line I will not cross.
I agree with your stance. I think as a general fan of the sport it's the perfect stance. If you're a fan of a team, this stance puts your team behind the competition more than ever before. There were always bags of cash behind the scenes that had certain teams ahead and left others behind when it came to getting players. Now it's just a free for all. Within that free for all, I fear this stance will make a schools like Seton Hall irrelevant, while making schools relevant who haven't been in a while such as Boston University, Northeastern University, Rice University and all these schools with nice endowments who if they choose to play the game, can rise up fast.
 
I agree with your stance. I think as a general fan of the sport it's the perfect stance. If you're a fan of a team, this stance puts your team behind the competition more than ever before. There were always bags of cash behind the scenes that had certain teams ahead and left others behind when it came to getting players. Now it's just a free for all. Within that free for all, I fear this stance will make a schools like Seton Hall irrelevant, while making schools relevant who haven't been in a while such as Boston University, Northeastern University, Rice University and all these schools with nice endowments who if they choose to play the game, can rise up fast.
Many of the top rated universities with huge endowments don't care much about sports. The use of endowment money to pay athletes would be the only thing the NCAA would punish at this point, as it's clearly pay for play. It couldn't be manipulated into NIL compensation.
 
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Many of the top rated universities with huge endowments don't care much about sports. The use of endowment money to pay athletes would be the only thing the NCAA would punish at this point, as it's clearly pay for play. It couldn't be manipulated into NIL compensation.
Agree, but they’re not going to take from the endowment. The people who have contributed to that endowment will pay the players. Endowment shows how much your alums contribute to the school. if those people decide hey we can build up our alma maters athletic programs by putting money here instead of there, let’s do it.
 
The thing about NJ NIL rules hurting RU and SHU is why is nothing being done. Gov Murphy made a big deal at a practice with his wife earlier this week. Gov Codey is very accessible to both Hobbs and SHU brass. Speaker Coughlin is from Middlesex county. Legislators are very quick to file bills at a drop of a hat and would love to get press on this subject. Very strange
 
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The thing about NJ NIL rules hurting RU and SHU is why is nothing being done. Gov Murphy made a big deal at a practice with his wife earlier this week. Gov Codey is very accessible to both Hobbs and SHU brass. Speaker Coughlin is from Middlesex county. Legislators are very quick to file bills at a drop of a hat and would love to get press on this subject. Very strange
I’m baffled by this as well, as I’ve said in other threads. Surely someone here must know someone who could clue us in.

I was also confused by this aside in the Athletic’s recent profile of Sha. Is the law even in effect? What does “probationary“ mean?

At Seton Hall, where there is no football, there is a savvy group of alums who are trying to work out some initiatives for players, all while keeping an eye on the peculiarities of a New Jersey law that remains probationary (it goes into effect in 2025) and currently includes language that a school cannot arrange an inducement for an athlete. It is, however, a pittance comparatively.
 
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The thing about NJ NIL rules hurting RU and SHU is why is nothing being done. Gov Murphy made a big deal at a practice with his wife earlier this week. Gov Codey is very accessible to both Hobbs and SHU brass. Speaker Coughlin is from Middlesex county. Legislators are very quick to file bills at a drop of a hat and would love to get press on this subject. Very strange
Both Christie and Ciattarelli are Seton Hall grads which should help with support from both sides of the isle.
 
What seems counterintuitive of the legislation is that the state invests a fortune into Rutgers athletics every year ($28M towards b-ball practice facility, $100M for football facility, etc.) but then simultaneously passes legislation that makes it extremely difficult to remain competitive in the current environment.
That‘s New Jersey for ya
 
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