OBAMA - WHY NOW ?

[SnakeTom]

OBAMA - WHY NOW ?

Not that I disagree with his actions against Russia & Israel but why now that he is leaving office? Why the tough guy act now when he could have done these things 6 months ago, a year or 2 years ago. Netanyahu has been a pain in the ass for the last 3 Presidents. Putin has been walking over OB's red lines in the sand in Ukrania/Syria all along. He was not the tough guy then but now he is (when he no longer has any leverage with term expiring)?

TK

 

[shu09]

It's not a good look. Don't like how he's ramming all this stuff through at the last minute. That said, I disagree with his antagonistic policy on Russia but I wholeheartedly agree with his approach to Israel and that war hawk Netanyahu.

 

[HALL85]

The only plausible reason I can come up with is that he is desperate to define/save his legacy. (Resorting to tweeting his accomplishments now...). Pretty obvious Trump is going to rip apart the ACA as a priority along with tax reform and infrastructure in year one so this might be a pre-emptive strike. Weird thing is I don't see any high profile Dem's running to the front of the line to advocate for Barry's legacy.

This whole transition has been bizarre to say the least. Handoff between two of the biggest narcissists known to mankind. You would think Obama and Trump would have huddled together on the Russian reaction, but doesn't look like that happened.

The decision on Israel may have been the right one, but it was handled horribly.

Do you think he'll stick around and continue to speak out against Trump or will he fade to the background like most outgoing Presidents?

 

[knowknow456]

TK -

The UN Vote abstention on the Israel censure was a definite personal shot from Obama to Netanyahu. The censure carries no sanction other than a little embarrassment for Israel. President-elect Trump is firmly in Israel's sphere of influence so the censure will have no long term political repercussions between either the US and Israel or on the idea of a two state solution.

Regarding the Russian sanctions, I presume you are referring to our retaliation for the hacking. I believe this was less personal shot from the President as it was him going on the record as saying "You did this". The announced sanctions were mild and for the most part toothless. President-elect Trump is firmly in Putin's sphere of influence so the sanctions will have no long term political repercussions. The sanctions may be directly removed or more likely simply ignored.

 

[SnakeTom]

Just to make my thoughts clear. I definitely support Israel's right to exist but I am no fan of Netanyahu who goes out of his way to shoot down any peace initiatives. I also dislike his attempts to meddle into US politics (his speach a few years ago before congress was nothing more than a GOP campaign rally). So yes the abstention was nothing more than a shot back at Netasnyahu but at a time when it will have little to no effect.

As to Obama I certainly do not agree with Hall 85's take. I just do not understand the move now. I do think Obama has been a decent to good President (somewhere in the middle of the pack of our 44 Presidents). Given the choice between Obama and Trump (who scares the hell out of me) I certainly would vote for the third term President (if allowed). Getting back to the issue, Russia's hacking is a serious problem but the focus for the next President should be remedying the faults in our security systems rather than the meaningless sanctions Obama is going to impose for the very short term.

Tom K

 

[HALL85]

As to Obama I certainly do not agree with Hall 85's take. I just do not understand the move now. I do think Obama has been a decent to good President (somewhere in the middle of the pack of our 44 Presidents). Given the choice between Obama and Trump (who scares the hell out of me) I certainly would vote for the third term President (if allowed). Getting back to the issue, Russia's hacking is a serious problem but the focus for the next President should be remedying the faults in our security systems rather than the meaningless sanctions Obama is going to impose for the very short term.

Tom K

Tom, to be clear, I have no idea why Obama would do this now either, other than to save his legacy. Just doesn't make sense on so many levels.

Agree that we need to ensure our security systems are secure as the number one priority. These sanctions just strike me as public relations feel good stuff. Did you find it odd last week when we evicted the Russians from the two very expensive mansions on LI and in MD that we knew they were performing espionage, and for several decades??? Why has this been ok for years?

 

[SnakeTom]

Did you find it odd last week when we evicted the Russians from the two very expensive mansions on LI and in MD that we knew they were performing espionage, and for several decades??? Why has this been ok for years?

Very good question. Maybe because we do the same thing. At least from watching Homeland that's the impression I get & both sides just publicly ignore it as a part of the diplomacy game?. Of course Homeland and shows of that type are fiction, aren't they ???

Tom K

 

[Bobbie Solo]

No that is exactly why. I'd expect to see Russia boot out some of our known people in retaliation, unless they are just biding their time until the next guy takes over here.

 

[knowknow456]

No that is exactly why. I'd expect to see Russia boot out some of our known people in retaliation, unless they are just hiding their time until the next guy takes over here.

Actually, Putin publicly declared he would not retaliate in-kind, a move which the President elect declared to be smart.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/30/politics/trump-putin-very-smart-for-decision-to-withhold-sanctions/

 

[Bobbie Solo]

Whatever. I don't care much either way. RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA! Look over there as a distraction from the real issues going on here at home & with this disgusting prez, his cabinet picks & the far right legislature that is about to rob us all blind & fukk over the environment for the benefit of the uber-rich!

Scary times coming.

 

[Seton75]

We are wondering why we reacted to Russia hacking our election? We are wondering why not earlier. Can you imagine the reaction of the haters h ere if he did it as soon as we knew, before the election. I like what he did, and imo he took heat off trump who now doesn't have to react to it.

I have a theory, based on no facts, about Netanyahu and Obama. The cia, Israel defense and others developed stuxnet. Netanyahu wanted to deploy it again Iran. Obama said no. He did it anyway. Just wild speculation by me.

 

[SPK145]

Whatever. I don't care much either way. RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA! Look over there as a distraction from the real issues going on here at home & with this disgusting prez, his cabinet picks & the far right legislature that is about to rob us all blind & fukk over the environment for the benefit of the uber-rich!

Scary times coming.

LOL, you sound like a republicant circa 2009!!!

This whole man-made envirnoment thing is interesting, found this Carbon Tax Temperature-Savings Calculator based on the MAGICC climate model simulator developed by scientists at the National Center for Atmospheric Research under funding by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

If you input the most dire choices (Industrialized Countries, 100% reduction in CO2 (LOL!!), and the most sensitivity 4.5), the Global Tempertaure Rise Averted is as follows:

2050: 0.124°C
2100: 0.352°C

Barely measurable.

What a crock.

 

[cernjSHU]

First, I believe that Kerry said around September that they believed that Russia was to blame for the hacking and would retaliate in kind in our time and our choosing. Obama for whatever reason did not come out stronger. Why not? I have no clue. Perhaps he didn't want to be accused of using it to influence the election. I don't know but that is part of Obama's weakness as a President.

SPK is now suddenly a scientist? A non-believer of the disappearance of the glaciers? I am not a scientist so I will go along with what 98% of the scientists say. Perhaps they will be wrong.

 

[Bobbie Solo]

Nah he was just trying to troll me with some small, useless point of info that flies in the face of climate change evidence. That wasn't myself point anyway, there's much more to what the EPA does than just that one issue, which I didn't even bring up. I'm not debating climate change on here, I was simply pointing out what damage this admin will do to the overall cause bc of their crusade to line the pockets of the rich, for one.

 

[Pirate64]

Obama didn't make the Israel move until after the election because he was afraid it would hurt Hilary.
The Russian hacking ? Unlike most Presidents who would have either acted sooner , he saw a way to both stay in the limelight late in the game and dump on Trump.
I think we are going to find that Trump is not an idealogue.
He'll just take it issue by issue and in his mind do what's best for most of the American people.
And they all don't live in Greater New York or California.

 

[SnakeTom]

I keep hearing from Trump supporters that he would have also won the popular vote if you take away NY and California. This argument makes absolutely no sense to me at all since last I heard New York and California were still part of the United States. Let's hope that Trump does make decisions that are good for all Americans as he promised. Personally I'm dubious that he will, but at this point I have to give him the benefit of the doubt since He will be our President.

PS to Pirate64 you are absolutely right about the reason for his move against Netanyahu after the election. Had he done it earlier no question it would have cost Hillary many votes from a segment of the population that usually votes Dem.

Tom K

 

[Section112]

I keep hearing from Trump supporters that he would have also won the popular vote if you take away NY and California. This argument makes absolutely no sense to me at all since last I heard New York and California were still part of the United States. Let's hope that Trump does make decisions that are good for all Americans as he promised. Personally I'm dubious that he will, but at this point I have to give him the benefit of the doubt since He will be our President.

PS to Pirate64 you are absolutely right about the reason for his move against Netanyahu after the election. Had he done it earlier no question it would have cost Hillary many votes from a segment of the population that usually votes Dem.

Tom K

He would never win NY or CA. He did win the Electoral College which is all that matters and Hillary thought she had it in the bag and did not campaign hard in swing states like MI and WI - her own fault. She also did not appeal to working Americans across the fly over states. Those states are just as important in the electoral college collectively as NY and CA. We are a republic not a Democracy and Hillary seemed to forget where she came from (Arkansas) and it cost her. Let me be clear I did not vote for either but I did enjoy watching the media lose their mind on election night and most of them were sitting in NY, CA and DC. They should all get out sometime and learn about the rest of America.

 

[SnakeTom]

Here is the thing. I do not think the election was an endorsement of Trump nor was it a repudiation of Obama. More than anything else it was a rejection of Hillary. It's common sense that if a voter does not like a candidate they will find a reason valid or not to vote against that candidate. People by and large did not like Hillary and there were plenty of reasons to vote against her.

As to Trump I agree with Pirate64 that he is not an idealogue. He is not really far right nor far left. but even more disturbing is that he is an ego maniac and all of his decisions & pronouncements have more to do with his image of himself than anything else. As his spokesperson said if you want to criticize the President elect just remember there will be consequences. Is that the way the first amendment is supposed to work.

Tom K

 

[knowknow456]

In the early going, Trump has been a mixed bag

Trump's rejection of the Ethics vote was pure genius.

Trump's warning that repealing ACA is poor strategy since it currently remains a Democrat problem was semi genius and semi broken campaign promise

Trump's asking Congress to pay for the wall and bill Mexico for it later is pure broken campaign promise. That's not how it was supposed to go down. .

 

[HALL85]

He would never win NY or CA. He did win the Electoral College which is all that matters and Hillary thought she had it in the bag and did not campaign hard in swing states like MI and WI - her own fault. She also did not appeal to working Americans across the fly over states. Those states are just as important in the electoral college collectively as NY and CA. We are a republic not a Democracy and Hillary seemed to forget where she came from (Arkansas) and it cost her. Let me be clear I did not vote for either but I did enjoy watching the media lose their mind on election night and most of them were sitting in NY, CA and DC. They should all get out sometime and learn about the rest of America.

+1...this nails it, but I do disagree with Tom in that Obama does deserve partial blame. The last three elections (2010, 12 and 14) were a repudiation of his policies to a degree as the Democratic party took a beating in the greatest loss of House, Senate, Governor and State Legislative seats ever. Clearly, the electorate was not buying the brand of Democrat the leader was selling.

I also think Trump outsmarted HRC and the DNC by changing the game with Twitter. Bypassed the MSM, directly communicating with his followers which I think are over 40 million now...but what everyone seems to be under-reporting is that he contracted with an analytics firm that tracked the re-tweets, comments, locations, responses, etc.. He didn't go to Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, etc., by accident the last two days. Twitter gave him his own polling data. I heard a commentator call Trump's use of Twitter, "like having his own NY Times without the overhead"...but to go one step further, he had his own personal "538" with the data he was getting from Twitter as well. Totally outmaneuvered the HRC/DNC ground game at a fraction of the cost.

 

[Section112]

Great point on Trump's use of Twitter. He does not get credit for that like Obama got credit after his win for using data and social media very well in his campaign. Trump outmaneuvered the press and they will never give him credit for that.

I don't know of any recent President who is not an egomaniac. Many former aids of Obama have said he thinks he is the smartest guy in the room at all times. It's probably a prerequisite for running for President so I don't hold that against any Pres. Trump does give off that he has thin skin and that is something he has to learn to not react to. Pence seems to react to criticism much better than Trump. Trump could learn a lot from him.

 

[Pirate64]

When he disagrees ,Trump "undoes" what the mass media reports , As soon as they say something, he tweets and repudiates. And his tweet is what is remembered- not the news story. as he is a master at the kids game of "gotcha last",

BTW, The NYT has an audience ,including digital, of about1.5 million. Trump has about 18 million twitter followers. He is a one man mass medium.

Also, he will be the first President to use social media to shape opinion, push his agenda and instantly disagree with the media if he feels it is warranted. In so doing he is setting a precedent which I think will be followed by those who come after him,

I

 

[shu09]

Have to be honest with you guys. As you know, I am a fan of Obama and thought he did a pretty good job overall. I did not vote for Trump or Clinton. All that said, I'm fairly excited for the Trump presidency. He has a chance to be a great one and get things done.