Observations @ Creighton

[LeftCoastPirates]

Before I get into it, you are not winning at Creighton when they shoot the 3 (11-26 - 42%) and share the ball (22 assists on 29 made Fgs) as well as they did.

Our depth is not the advantage we thought we had

In order to win games the Hall probably needs strong games from Kadary and Samuel offensively, along with a third contributor. But you can’t even be competitive if the bench is as ineffective as it was in the first half. Almost unfathomable to believe they got 1 rebound, went 0-4 shooting, picked up 2 fouls and 3 turnovers from Jackson, Harris and the Davis brothers over the first 20 minutes. I want to say it got better in the second half, but it felt like extended garbage time compared to legit offensive contributions for Tray, Tae, and Dre. Maybe Tray’s 11 points will boost his confidence?

Kalkbrenner dominated

He IMO is an outstanding player so I don’t want to diminish his impact on the defensive end, especially when he previously has won BE DPOY. However, his previous season high was 3 blocks against Holy Cross. The way he played tonight you would have thought Patrick Ewing was manning the middle for the Bluejays. Career high 6 blocks on the evening.

Tyrese played a decent first half (9 points 6 rebounds) and I am glad he stayed more aggressive offensively. But I would love to see him take it directly at a guy like Kalkbrenner and possibly put him in foul trouble. He essentially disappeared in the second half after the two quick fouls. Not another point or rebound.

Basketball IQ is lacking

• Kadary’s second foul intentionally grabbing Kaluma. Non factor after that.
• Femi’s technical for the pull up on the rim.
• Dawe’s back to back fouls away from the basket that put Creighton in the bonus
• Samuel’s first foul 20 feet from the basket, along with two in 30 seconds to start the second half.
• Just a lot of head scratching here.

Players need to know their role.

Regardless of the game Dawes had vs St. John’s, he immediately regressed back to what had plagued him previously. Rushed shots, step back 3s, and his first two buckets weren’t even good looks…bombing 1 against 4.

Others need to know that the 3 point shot is not in their repertoire. And the list is longer than those who should have the green light.

And speaking of roles. I honestly don’t know what the role is for Tray Jackson on this roster. He can’t guard positions 3-5 and he is letting his D affect his offense now too. Just an absolute zero contributor at the moment.

My one positive takeaway is you don’t ever have to question the effort you will get from KC and Femi. Sha needs to find more guys with their DNA who are little more balanced offensively.
Ironically 48 hours after Willard took one on the chin at Michigan (35 point loss) the Pirates laid an egg similarly doubled up and down 30+ at points in the game.

 

[mbraue]

Well, Sha did learn under Willard, no? Weave looks familiar and very little movement without the ball. Contrast that with Creighton who to me plays high basketball IQ like Marquette.

At Creighton, the ball moves - you can hear McDermott say move that ball, play the right way. That means sharing the ball, taking good open looks and dribbling less. Geez, it can’t be this hard.

Tyler Kolek for Marquette is the best passing PG in the Big East. He makes everyone around him better. Of course, it helps to have outside shooters. Right now we have 2 in our starting lineup in Dawes and Richmond. Can’t compete if you can’t hit outside shots.

Jackson cannot back up Samuel - he should play the 4.

 

[lr591902]

We are an extremely flawed team with several players including Jackson playing out of position. I thought this was a game where we would have a tough time. We needed everyone to play at their peak to even be close. Once Kadary got his second foul we were done. Need to regroup and win the next three games.

 

[SHUSA]

this isnt the worst loss weve even had there. but it was actually 22 assists on 29 shots. woah.

 

[mbraue]

this isnt the worst loss weve even had there. but it was actually 22 assists on 29 shots. woah.

this isnt the worst loss weve even had there. but it was actually 22 assists on 29 shots. woah.

That’s an insane stat - and this the most blocks their center had since playing against Holy Cross. We made him look like Kareem!

 

[HallGuy23]

This won’t be the last game like this unfortunately. We are woefully small and unable to shoot. Those are disasters in basketball at any level.

 

[LeftCoastPirates]

It’s clearly not the right combination of pieces to compete with the better teams in the BE. Especially when on the road and when the other team plays closer to their A game.

Even if we played at our best tonight, not sure if it would have been enough to knock off Creighton the way they played.

They have the ability to put together 3 wins in a row with the competition on the schedule. But even if they got back to 4 and 4, I think you have to temper expectations big time. On any given night they could beat a Providence / Xavier. I don’t think they can play with Creighton and UConn. I also don’t think they have the ability to be consistent enough to string together wins against better team.

Anything between 7-9 conference wins would be considered an outstanding coaching job IMO at this juncture.

 

[jack 1970]

We lost to a vastly superior team on the road.Game was over by half time.

3 point defense was non existent.Kalkbrenner looked like Bill Russell.I wish Ike postponed his career by a year!How could we think we could make it thru the year with Samuel/Jackson at center? Disservice to us and to them.

KR was a no show and we had 8 assists and 14 turnovers.Is Harris ever going to make another 3?

On the bright side Femi and FT %.

Have to beat Butler at home.

 

[NYC Pirate]

We will win some games against the "you know who's" of the conference. Maybe a game at the BigEast Tournament.
What's troubling is how they fold the tents so easily. I guess if a team plays like SHU as far as style, they'll always have a chance.

The game was lost at 10-10. Richmond second foul about that time. The coaching staff insists they are going to use a certain group at that point. I'm not huge analytics person but doesn't the data say that this is the deal breaker??

 

[LeftCoastPirates]

We will win some games against the "you know who's" of the conference. Maybe a game at the BigEast Tournament.
What's troubling is how they fold the tents so easily. I guess if a team plays like SHU as far as style, they'll always have a chance.

The game was lost at 10-10. Richmond second foul about that point. The coaching staff insists they are going to use a certain group at that point. I'm not huge analytics person but doesn't the data say that this is the deal breaker??

I just don’t understand what the fans expect Sha to do. He can’t play Samuel 35+ minutes per game. He has no one else with any height besides Tray Jackson. Ok so he can play Tray at the 3 or 4 and put KC on the 7 ft Kalkbrenner. Hate to break it, but KC is 6’6” on a good day. That wasn’t going to work either.

And just because Samuel had a good game vs St Johns doesn’t mean he is now the savior to all our problems in the middle. I understand he is the only one we can turn to at the moment. However, do we ever stop and think maybe we are expecting too much.

In his junior year he logged his most minutes per game of his career at 21, averaged 7.3 ppg, 5.2 rpg, and had a total of 5 assists for the entire year. 5!!!!

He went off for 16 and 9 vs the Johnnies. Prior to that, do you want to guess how many times he had replicated those numbers vs a P6 school? NEVER!

In his 4 years at Seton Hall (including the SJU game) he has scored in double figures a total of 10 times vs P6 competition. With his career high being…wait for it…16.

Seton Hall needs Tyrese to log 30+ minutes a game a duplicate his career best game on a nightly basis for us to be successful.

Like I said. Just not realistic expectations.

 

[silkcitypirate]

Well, Sha did learn under Willard, no? Weave looks familiar and very little movement without the ball. Contrast that with Creighton who to me plays high basketball IQ like Marquette.

At Creighton, the ball moves - you can hear McDermott say move that ball, play the right way. That means sharing the ball, taking good open looks and dribbling less. Geez, it can’t be this hard.

Tyler Kolek for Marquette is the best passing PG in the Big East. He makes everyone around him better. Of course, it helps to have outside shooters. Right now we have 2 in our starting lineup in Dawes and Richmond. Can’t compete if you can’t hit outside shots.

Jackson cannot back up Samuel - he should play the 4.

Jackson should not even play .

 

[Piratz]

Even our best teams got blown out at Creighton. When they are moving the ball and draining 3’s it’s over. Then we tried to speed up with them a bit early. Dumb.

 

[Section112]

Even our best teams got blown out at Creighton. When they are moving the ball and draining 3’s it’s over. Then we tried to speed up with them a bit early. Dumb.

I made the same comment before the 17-2 run that the tempo was bad for us. And we were trying to run with them? The message is clearly not getting through to our guys.

Not gonna win when Creighton is shooting well and Kalkbrenner is so effective. But who would have thought the game woukd be over with 5 mins left in the first half? Our roster is flawed. Samuel and Jackson are not centers. We have a bunch of guys that don’t fit any position. One PG at times. Sha got started late and the roster we have has big holes in it.

 

[Piratz]

Also, don’t expect much when Richmond and Samuel combine for 36 minutes and 13 points.

 

[HALL85]

I made the same comment before the 17-2 run that the tempo was bad for us. And we were trying to run with them? The message is clearly not getting through to our guys.

Not gonna win when Creighton is shooting well and Kalkbrenner is so effective. But who would have thought the game woukd be over with 5 mins left in the first half? Our roster is flawed. Samuel and Jackson are not centers. We have a bunch of guys that don’t fit any position. One PG at times. Sha got started late and the roster we have has big holes in it.

Our only chance against teams like Creighton is to reduce the number of possessions and slow it down on offense.

Play your best defensive players and hope to get enough offense each game from Richmond, Dawes, Samuel and Dre.

The roster has so many holes. KC and Femi give you consistant defense, but teams are giving them wide-open three's and without ball movement, it's reckless drives. I've seen more defense in a lay-up line that what Jackson offers. I don't know what happened to Jamir, but the three-point shooting is effecting the rest of his game. Was hoping Tae to blossom, but he's a freshman and Sha is plugging him in when everything else fails...not the best way to learn.

They are what they are...good enough to beat the bottom four (Butler, G-Town, SJU and DePaul); not good enough to beat the teams above them. Will probably lose one or two from below and upset on or two from above, but looking like a 7-8 win season.

 

[MBF72]

Anything between 7-9 conference wins would be considered an outstanding coaching job IMO at this juncture.

Or an absolute miracle. I'm just happy with Saturday's win we will not be this year's Georgetown.

 

[ShoreGold]

Yetna at all close to coming back?

 

[NYC Pirate]

We lost to a vastly superior team on the road.Game was over by half time.

3 point defense was non existent.Kalkbrenner looked like Bill Russell.I wish Ike postponed his career by a year!How could we think we could make it thru the year with Samuel/Jackson at center? Disservice to us and to them.

KR was a no show and we had 8 assists and 14 turnovers.Is Harris ever going to make another 3?

On the bright side Femi and FT %.

Have to beat Butler at home.

OK,

I just don’t understand what the fans expect Sha to do. He can’t play Samuel 35+ minutes per game. He has no one else with any height besides Tray Jackson. Ok so he can play Tray at the 3 or 4 and put KC on the 7 ft Kalkbrenner. Hate to break it, but KC is 6’6” on a good day. That wasn’t going to work either.

And just because Samuel had a good game vs St Johns doesn’t mean he is now the savior to all our problems in the middle. I understand he is the only one we can turn to at the moment. However, do we ever stop and think maybe we are expecting too much.

In his junior year he logged his most minutes per game of his career at 21, averaged 7.3 ppg, 5.2 rpg, and had a total of 5 assists for the entire year. 5!!!!

He went off for 16 and 9 vs the Johnnies. Prior to that, do you want to guess how many times he had replicated those numbers vs a P6 school? NEVER!

In his 4 years at Seton Hall (including the SJU game) he has scored in double figures a total of 10 times vs P6 competition. With his career high being…wait for it…16.

Seton Hall needs Tyrese to log 30+ minutes a game a duplicate his career best game on a nightly basis for us to be successful.

Like I said. Just not realistic expectations.

You have made several valid points about the situation. No way we should put the blame squarely on one player. You can only cook with the ingredients you have. Maybe Creighton will continue to be our worst matchup from year to year as far as combatting their offensive style.

Having said that each battle(game) is different. Without a quality backup or height on the roster Tyrese Samuel’s minutes become the focal point. As you pointed out it’s not like he has a history of great offensive games against P6 schools. However, it looks like in this particular year the team as a whole performs better with him on the court. The level of play drops dramatically on defense when he comes off., What is the realistic amount of minutes he can play? Offensively they can do without him for a bit. The bottom line is if he needs a blow then you change everything on both ends., On offense slow it down to a crawl. On defense play zone and make sure you have your best defensive guys out there.,So if that means changing the starting lineup so that guys are available when Tyrese comes out you do it. Richmond killed Sha with that second foul last night. What on earth was he thinking?? However, you cannot allow 10-10 to turn into 19-10 and really 27-12 , Game, set and match., Tyrese had to come back in at 15-10 the latest. Maybe Creighton would have killed SHU anyway?

I agree with you about the team’s collective on court
Smarts. It’s all over the map.from game to game.

 

[TomWall]

Well, Sha did learn under Willard, no? Weave looks familiar and very little movement without the ball. Contrast that with Creighton who to me plays high basketball IQ like Marquette.

At Creighton, the ball moves - you can hear McDermott say move that ball, play the right way. That means sharing the ball, taking good open looks and dribbling less. Geez, it can’t be this hard.

Tyler Kolek for Marquette is the best passing PG in the Big East. He makes everyone around him better. Of course, it helps to have outside shooters. Right now we have 2 in our starting lineup in Dawes and Richmond. Can’t compete if you can’t hit outside shots.

Jackson cannot back up Samuel - he should play the 4.

You said the quiet part out loud. While Sha would never ever do what Willard did at the end of his tenure, the offense does look very familiar.

 

[shu67]

We lost to a potential final 4 team. We need to move on and learn from it. Yes some guys did not play well. That is what happens when you play a final 4 team. They expose your issues. Today's team will not be a final 4 team but they can compete against a number of teams in the BE and win their share of games. Remember they beat RU and St Johns so there is hope for some more wins.

 

[Piratz]

I don’t really take too much from this game. I mean, how many times have we seen Creighton go bonkers from 3 against us out there? We were no match for them last night. As this season goes on, I really don’t take much from it either. I’m just hoping for meaningful games and exciting atmospheres at The Rock. Most of this team will not be back; these are not the players that will define Sha’s legacy here and I’m also sure he’s learning a lot because he is taking a step up.

I didn’t think Sha had a good game plan either at the start. I didn’t see us switch up the tempo or go to a zone or anything of the things he did against St. John’s. I thought maybe he’d use his guys strengths to spread the floor and drive at Kalk, but nope. Others have mentioned pulling Samuel out of the paint more to address it. I’d do that too, but we saw none of this. He’s also trying to squeeze water out of some rocks here. His complaints are always the same and probably because he has an old team.

 

[STLPirate12]

Our lack of a true 5 was always going to make this one difficult. If you have someone big enough to defend Kalk 1 on 1, they become a 1 trick pony and you can focus on defending the arc. We don't have that, forcing us into a pick your poison of let Kalk dominate or help on him and leave their shooters open.

Our only hope was to choose #2 and hope their shooters had an off night (they didn't, obviously). We sort of did that, but also too often got caught in between those options and let them go off on both ends.

 

[cernjSHU]

Our lack of a true 5 was always going to make this one difficult. If you have someone big enough to defend Kalk 1 on 1, they become a 1 trick pony and you can focus on defending the arc. We don't have that, forcing us into a pick your poison of let Kalk dominate or help on him and leave their shooters open.

Our only hope was to choose #2 and hope their shooters had an off night (they didn't, obviously). We sort of did that, but also too often got caught in between those options and let them go off on both ends.

Sha had an alternative. Use Samuel to draw Kalkbrenner away from the basket. You have to give Samuel a couple of shots from three. If he makes one, that will draw Kalkbrenner away from the basket. That in turn opens up lanes for Kadary and the other players.

I thought Shaheen was poor in this game. He did not adjust defenses switch them up like in the St John's game. As much as the players are inconsistent, so is the coach.

 

[Seton75]

Sha had an alternative. Use Samuel to draw Kalkbrenner away from the basket. You have to give Samuel a couple of shots from three. If he makes one, that will draw Kalkbrenner away from the basket. That in turn opens up lanes for Kadary and the other players.

I thought Shaheen was poor in this game. He did not adjust defenses switch them up like in the St John's game. As much as the players are inconsistent, so is the coach.

Ty is shooting the mid range well - made one last night. But after the early 2nd foul, it is dangerous having KR drive all the time. Teams are gonna be willing to leave many open guys in thehopes of drawg a charging foul on him. That dopey second foul was huge.

 

[catholicman]

We lost to a potential final 4 team. We need to move on and learn from it. Yes some guys did not play well. That is what happens when you play a final 4 team. They expose your issues. Today's team will not be a final 4 team but they can compete against a number of teams in the BE and win their share of games. Remember they beat RU and St Johns so there is hope for some more wins.

Creighton is not a potential Final Four team. They'll be lucky to make the Sweet 16.

 

[STLPirate12]

Sha had an alternative. Use Samuel to draw Kalkbrenner away from the basket. You have to give Samuel a couple of shots from three. If he makes one, that will draw Kalkbrenner away from the basket. That in turn opens up lanes for Kadary and the other players.

I thought Shaheen was poor in this game. He did not adjust defenses switch them up like in the St John's game. As much as the players are inconsistent, so is the coach.

I was talking about defense. Maybe that works on offense, but Samuel isn't exactly a huge 3pt threat

 

[cernjSHU]

I was talking about defense. Maybe that works on offense, but Samuel isn't exactly a huge 3pt threat

He shot 32% his Freshman and sophomore years. He is shooting it 25% this year. He is shooting it better than Tre Davis and Harris this year. But, Sha had to do something and he was a deer stuck in the headlights last night.

 

[LeftCoastPirates]

He shot 32% his Freshman and sophomore years. He is shooting it 25% this year. He is shooting it better than Tre Davis and Harris this year. But, Sha had to do something and he was a deer stuck in the headlights last night.

But he shot it at a 20% clip last year and is only 2 for 8 (25%) this year.

I know we are all frustrated but when we are critiquing the coach for not asking a guy who has shot (8/38) 21% from 3 the last two seasons to take more shots from distance, I think we are reaching.

Lots of good suggestions I have seen.
- Play more zone when Samuel is out and have KC try to roam the middle, front the post, and challenge some shots.
- Maybe get Sanders more minutes over Harris. Play the frosh over the 25 year old if the drop off is negligible. Makes sense for long term program development.
- Really focus on tempo and pace of play. If you want to grind it out in the low 60s then limit total possessions for the entire game.
- Pick your poison properly. Kalkbrenner going off for 25 or wide open 3s for all.

I didn’t say the following in my original post. People point out that the game was over after the 17-2 run to make it 27-12. Looking back I felt in my gut that Kadary’s 2nd foul was the turning point. He had to come out, yes Tray couldn’t stop Kalkbrenner, but the team is basically lost on offense without Richmond. You also don’t know what player you get from night to night with him. Yes definitely turning a corner more recently. But that foul, the body language, the frustration of the offensive foul on the first possession, and the inability to get to the rim successfully early on. It seemed like Kadary was checked out mentally pretty quickly. Maybe that’s why Sha eventually sat him down and he only played 17 minutes for the game.

 

[Seton75]

... Looking back I felt in my gut that Kadary’s 2nd foul was the turning point. He had to come out...

The second foul by Kadary was a killer. And then...why Sha took out Ty at all still baffles me. Why he kept him out so long made no basketball sense. I hope it was a message being sent to someone. If anyone learned a lesson from that experiment, maybe it is the coaches who see that the defense with Tray in the post just doesnt work.

 

[Piratz]

The second foul by Kadary was a killer. And then...why Sha took out Ty at all still baffles me. Why he kept him out so long made no basketball sense. I hope it was a message being sent to someone. If anyone learned a lesson from that experiment, maybe it is the coaches who see that the defense with Tray in the post just doesnt work.

16 games in and we’re still pinning Samuel to the bench for too long. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

When even Carino is writing about it you know it’s mindboggling.

 

[Section112]

When Kalk is healthy and they are shooting 3's like that and spreading the floor, they are extremely difficult to defend. I wish we competed a little more and played smarter. We still most likely lose but I never thought the game would be over that early. Hats off to Creighton, burn the tape and move on. Not much to dwell on with this one - move ahead.

 

[HALL28]

We will win some games against the "you know who's" of the conference. Maybe a game at the BigEast Tournament.
What's troubling is how they fold the tents so easily. I guess if a team plays like SHU as far as style, they'll always have a chance.

The game was lost at 10-10. Richmond second foul about that time. The coaching staff insists they are going to use a certain group at that point. I'm not huge analytics person but doesn't the data say that this is the deal breaker??

The substitutions have made very little sense all season. Samuel constantly finds himself glued to the bench for reasons unknown.

If Richmond is off the floor, we're screwed and if Jackson is in the game at center, we are also screwed against any good team. Any coach who does 10 minutes of preparation for our rotation is licking his chops waiting for Sha to put Jackson in at the 5.

Do both of those things on the road against a team like Creighton, and it's lights out very quickly.

 

[Piratz]

Harris is now 12/63 (.190) from 3 this season.

 

[HALL85]

Harris is now 12/63 (.190) from 3 this season.

Chuck Knobloch Part 2?

 

[radecicco]

But he shot it at a 20% clip last year and is only 2 for 8 (25%) this year.

I know we are all frustrated but when we are critiquing the coach for not asking a guy who has shot (8/38) 21% from 3 the last two seasons to take more shots from distance, I think we are reaching.

Lots of good suggestions I have seen.
- Play more zone when Samuel is out and have KC try to roam the middle, front the post, and challenge some shots.
- Maybe get Sanders more minutes over Harris. Play the frosh over the 25 year old if the drop off is negligible. Makes sense for long term program development.
- Really focus on tempo and pace of play. If you want to grind it out in the low 60s then limit total possessions for the entire game.
- Pick your poison properly. Kalkbrenner going off for 25 or wide open 3s for all.

I didn’t say the following in my original post. People point out that the game was over after the 17-2 run to make it 27-12. Looking back I felt in my gut that Kadary’s 2nd foul was the turning point. He had to come out, yes Tray couldn’t stop Kalkbrenner, but the team is basically lost on offense without Richmond. You also don’t know what player you get from night to night with him. Yes definitely turning a corner more recently. But that foul, the body language, the frustration of the offensive foul on the first possession, and the inability to get to the rim successfully early on. It seemed like Kadary was checked out mentally pretty quickly. Maybe that’s why Sha eventually sat him down and he only played 17 minutes for the game.

Man, do I miss your podcast even though I was a bit critical at times. Glad you are posting here with reasoned commentary.

As I noted on the Trove, didn’t we sweep CU last year? A key reason as Ike neutralizing Kalkbrenner. We just don’t have that this year.

As noted, Samuel can’t play 40 minutes. He needs to get breaks. Maybe last night Sha was trying to preserve him for what he hoped would be a tighter game. Samuel can pick up fouls in bunches as evidenced by the early part of the 2nd half.

The roster was put together late out of necessity. The pieces don’t mesh. Not a lot of answers against the top tier BE teams. IMO, a lot of guys ARE playing hard but these are not the prototypical guys Sha will be looking for going forward.

 

[shu67]

I just double checked a number of polls and my memory was correct as Creighton was picked as a top ten team in numerous preseason polls by a number of experts. They are an elite team and I stand by my take that they have final 4 potential. Nothing to be ashamed of when we lost big on their home turf. We have to take care of business with the other teams in the BE on our home court especially!

 

[LBP43]

16 games in and we’re still pinning Samuel to the bench for too long. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

When even Carino is writing about it you know it’s mindboggling.

Just do not see any growth in Sha or his staff --too many Games this Year with the same situation and same results.
Mc Dermott was ready and so was his Team ( as soon as Jackson/Harris enter the full O attack began ). Was the Hall ready?
More distressing was nothing was changed at half and the towel thrown in within 5 minutes. I do not believe anyone learns or gains by by being benched . McDermott certainly did not rein in his Team.. Sitting oh the chair with legs crossed while McDermott prowls was not what the Hall should be about.

 

[Burnsly]

I was talking about defense. Maybe that works on offense, but Samuel isn't exactly a huge 3pt threat

No reason to have to drift past the 3 pt line. Just having Samuel 10 - 15' away from the hoop would have been effective in getting Kalkbrenner from underneath.

 

[HallGuy23]

Yetna at all close to coming back?

It really doesn’t matter anymore

 

[radecicco]

Just do not see any growth in Sha or his staff --too many Games this Year with the same situation and same results.
Mc Dermott was ready and so was his Team ( as soon as Jackson/Harris enter the full O attack began ). Was the Hall ready?
More distressing was nothing was changed at half and the towel thrown in within 5 minutes. I do not believe anyone learns or gains by by being benched . McDermott certainly did not rein in his Team.. Sitting oh the chair with legs crossed while McDermott prowls was not what the Hall should be about.

That was not a good look by Sha. Reminded me of Anderson in the 2nd half vs SHU on Saturday.