Our AD .

[hallgrad80]

If you're going to criticize our AD al least be fair in doing so. He has accomplished more then any AD that I can think of especially in several key areas. Fund raising , facilities and infrastructure upgrades and getting a substantial increase in the budget for athletics . He has generated more income from sponsorships like our deal with Under Armour then any AD we've ever had and all our athletes have far more resources then ever before.

The other side of the equation of course is how well our teams are doing and in order to do so you have to look at how well the coaches he's hired are doing. When Pat took over the following coaches were in place and still are:
Men's BB - Hired by Hobbs
Cross Country ( M&W )
Baseball
Swimming ( M&W )
Men's Golf
Women's Golf
Women's tennis

The coaches he's hired are of course are led by Tony in WBB
Men's soccer - Echeverry - 4 seasons
Women's soccer - Stainton- 2 years
Volleyball - Yaeger was promoted from assistant to head coach
Softball - Paige Smith - 4 years

No AD hits a home run every time he hires a coach but what helps separates the good AD's from the bad is not only how many good hires he makes , are his athletic teams being successful but also does he recognize when a change is needed and makes that change . Just as many of you have pointed out some of our programs continue to struggle including some under coaches he hired and others have thrived. Let me just point out that even where a change may be indicated Pat's hands may be tied by financial constraints in making a change .Everyone can draw their own conclusion on Lyons but I've seen nothing to suggest that SH would be better off with a different AD at this point in time.

I still remain a strong supporter of Pat and Hank and Pat Murray and the other key members of the BOR and calls for any of them to go is inane.

 

[catholicman]

Lyons needs to take a remedial course in contract negotiation 101.

 

[Pirate64]

Hear, hear ! Pat Lyons is by far the best AD we've ever had.

Hallgrad has made the logical case. The emotional case is that he is approachable, gets back to you, and moves fast on everything.

Visit the school and see what's been accomplished since he's been here. Take a look at the students in the new work- out facilities or playing basketball in the rec center at 9 at night- the campus is alive with students on the move! Check out the locker rooms for each team sport. Ask Mike Sheppard - old baseball caoch- about Pat. And ask the coaches if they are getting support from this AD. He gets the highest marks from all.

I would ask Pat's detractors to look beyond men's basketball when it comes to Seton Hall athletics. We are a lot more than that today.

 

[catholicman]

He is very good at rebuilding facilities. We will have some of the worst teams in the Big East playing in some of the newest facilities. Is it worth the $460,000 or so a year Lyons makes? In my opinion, no.

 

[Seton75]

He has done a good job with the facilities and he is the first AD with the money to do so.

 

[hallgrad80]

He has done a good job with the facilities and he is the first AD with the money to do so.

Just remember 75 that the extra money for the facilities upgrades was available because Pat made the case for it with the BOR and the senior executives at SH and got them to provide it.

 

[catholicman]

And Fox gave us a lot of money.

 

[simone84]

I don't understand the love fest over this guy. He took over as AD for a school whose athletic programs were at the bottom of the Big East. Hard not to improve a little on that.

The facilities have improved, but is that all him or more from the money we are getting from the Fox/BE deal?

The men's basketball program is reaching new lows under his tutelage. The reality is no one really cares if the women's diving team is competitive in the Big East. It's all about men's basketball at Seton Hall. He has failed MISERABLY in that regard. Outside of the 200 people on this board, no one cares about Seton Hall basketball. It's a joke and has been for the better part of a decade. Lyons has had a big hand in that misery continuing on.

Lyons helped negotiate a lengthy contract extension for a close friend of his who happens to support a 30-60 conference record. That alone should get this guy fired.

Unlike Quinlan, he seems to be a personable guy that shakes a lot of hands and lets Halldan1 interview him. That's great, but until he fires his friend and goes out and lands Seton Hall a head coach that's a proven winner then my opinion probably won't change.

 

[cernjSHU]

Hall grad, your post seems to excuse him for the Willard hire. However, you fail to mention that he is responsible and gave Willard the ridiculous contract extension that has saddled this school with Willard. So to be fair, it was under his watch that Willard was given an undeserved huge contract extension. And that's a big strike against his leadership. Another big strike against him is not firing Willard last year. He has one more strike left. He will use that up if Willard stays another year.

 

[anon_4htvdezyfe7k9]

He seems to have been doing a nice job for all the reason mentioned, but agree with Simone, bottom line is our flagship program, and the performance there speaks for itself.

 

[hallgrad80]

Hall grad, your post seems to excuse him for the Willard hire. However, you fail to mention that he is responsible and gave Willard the ridiculous contract extension that has saddled this school with Willard. So to be fair, it was under his watch that Willard was given an undeserved huge contract extension. And that's a big strike against his leadership. Another big strike against him is not firing Willard last year. He has one more strike left. He will use that up if Willard stays another year.

CERN
I have heard conflicting reports on who was responsible for the contract extension and didn't want to lay it on Pat's or Hobbs or anyone else's table. If I knew for certain it was Lyons I would have pointed that out as a poor decision.

 

[Seton75]

Just remember 75 that the extra money for the facilities upgrades was available because Pat made the case for it with the BOR and the senior executives at SH and got them to provide it.

I am talking abot the bonanza of FOX $$s. I really don't think FOX gave us money so we could hire a new Prof of English Lit.

 

[SOSHU]

People here make it sound as if Lyons reached into his own pocket to fund the capital improvements. My understanding is that many of these projects were in the pipeline prior to Lyons hiring. Fortunately we were able to capture the Fox Windfall. Regarding Under Armour. I have no idea as to whether this pays more or less than our other deals with Sneaker companies.

At such a huge salary, Lyons should be able to fund raise to the tune of capturing millions. He makes more than many AD'S at big time football schools. He has way fewer sports here versus other schools and should spend a vast amount of his efforts on big time fund raising. I just do not see it.

If he were such a top notch fund raising wiz, we would have easily been able to afford Willard's buyout. No matter what anyone on this board thinks, the only valid option would have been to fire Willard. The problem was that we could not afford to do so. Big time athletic directors find a way to take needed action. Our AD wilted and essentially disappeared during those long and horrific months right after the season ended. The best thing to happen to SHU athletics - yeah right. Show me the baby and not the pain. Until that happens, I remain truly skeptical.

 

[TheBluePirate]

Where's Turridu when you need him....

Think Balanced Scorecard, folks. Students, Student-Athletes, Alumni Engagement, Donations, Facilities, Communications, Recognition, Program Management, Performance, Efficiency, Financials, Customer (heh) Satisfaction.

On many of these dimensions, if you are level-headed and track the reporting and results in the categories, this guy is doing a very solid job (please remember the previous regime, please, for the love of God, Montresor!). In some areas, he's treading water (perhaps) and the performance in one area is abysmally pathetic, but tied to terrible financials.

It's not a perfect scorecard, but his is far far far from being a poor scorecard.

This does not paper over the profound cratering crap hole dumpster fire.

 

[hallgrad80]

For those who dismiss Pat's fundraising capabilities just let me remind you that SH has one of the lowest percentage of Alumni giving in the country and had not one high profile ,highly successful athletic program that he could point to in soliciting funds for athletics when he was hired. Raising funds under those circumstances would be extremely difficult as I see it and the tap is not just turned on because a new AD is hired. Just ask yourself how much funds were raised by Quinlan or Fogelson during their tenure compared to Pat. Also please factor in what the reputation of SH and its BB program was following the BG era and try to convince potential contributors with that hanging over any fundraising.

 

[lloyde dobler]

Seton Hall lacks the alum who can cut the big check.

The other Big East schools have those guys. Seton Hall doesn't. They used to, but they wound up in jail.

Providence had a single soccer alum, who is a hedge fund guy, donate as much himself last year to their athletic fund as Pirate Blue raised collectively.

THAT is what separates programs. If Seton Hall has a donor like that, then Willard is bought out last year.

As for the extension that Willard got, I still say that has Hobbs' finger prints all over it, along with this board's friend on the BOR who sounds like he means well, but it is probably out of his realm when it comes to big-time college sports.

 

[TheBluePirate]

They used to, but they wound up in jail.

This is true.

 

[SOSHU]

For those who dismiss Pat's fundraising capabilities just let me remind you that SH has one of the lowest percentage of Alumni giving in the country and had not one high profile ,highly successful athletic program that he could point to in soliciting funds for athletics when he was hired. Raising funds under those circumstances would be extremely difficult as I see it and the tap is not just turned on because a new AD is hired. Just ask yourself how much funds were raised by Quinlan or Fogelson during their tenure compared to Pat. Also please factor in what the reputation of SH and its BB program was following the BG era and try to convince potential contributors with that hanging over any fundraising.

Seton Hall has plenty of millionaire alumni that with some prodding would pony up big time money. I personally know some of these individuals and the main problem is that they have not even been appoached regarding a potential donation. A big part of an AD'S job is to act as a sales person and to sell the program to potential donars. This is not being done to the degree that it should be.

 

[TheBluePirate]

Seton Hall has plenty of millionaire alumni that with some prodding would pony up big time money. I personally know some of these individuals and the main problem is that they have not even been appoached regarding a potential donation. A big part of an AD'S job is to act as a sales person and to sell the program to potential donars. This is not being done to the degree that it should be.

SOSHU, I think you're wandering in the "questionable cause" kind of fallacy area. Let me translate: (1) the results are terrible (2) large sums of money are correlated with success (3) fundraising is necessary to gain large sums of money therefore (4) obviously insufficient fundraising has been done since the results are so poor.

You (and the rest of us) are not in a position to factually ascertain whether fundraising is not being done to the degree is should be - unless your particular standard is "Mother Seton's Holy Vitamin Water Guy" has dropped a billion dollars onto the MBB program.

The increase in alumni engagement during Pat's tenure is striking - are we so hard of memory?

 

[Halldan1]

I am talking abot the bonanza of FOX $$s. I really don't think FOX gave us money so we could hire a new Prof of English Lit.

A lot of the money given was with the proviso that all coaches including the assistants get contracts in line with other major conferences.

Willard's extension timing wise was a perfect storm.

 

[Turiddu]

This is a really a complex issue that has many dimensions, but in essence most if not all of the posters are right in their varied observations..I think Pat Lyons has many skills, and it is difficult when you are on the outside to know who made the key decisions.From my limited knowledge, I was baffled by the lack of intervention regarding Coach Willard.Certainly he inherited a mess, but on what basis was he given an extension?

Regarding getting Seton Hall out of the depths that the prior coach put us in certainly initially he gets high marks, but in so many other categories it appears that there has been a dearth of leadership.I don't know of any executive in charge of a flagship service or product that would have gone on without some major interventions. .I have known more than my share of stubborn "my way or the highway" Presidents and CEO's. They can get away with that style, but when the product or service tanks there are always immediate "come to Jesus "moments.

Willard had so many flaws that for the life of me I could not understand why he was not given some tools for development. I am not going to try and give a pop psychology analysis, but the patterns were so obvious I wondered is this a case of a guy that can't really perform, but manages up flawlessly. His tenure has been a disaster, and trying to find the root causes at the Hall in order to find remedies are in my humble opinion practically impossible.

I have spoken to Pat Lyons, and have been treated with the utmost respect, but obviously he could not share the real scoop with an outsider.My gut tells me he is an enormously skilled AD with a burning desire to win. However, regardless of the buyout I would have paid it and moved forward. The argument pales that going through coaches would prevent attracting a quality coach, and loses merit when you see the program year by year slipping further and further into an abyss.

This is a premier league with a ton of talented coaches, and some have tremendous competitive advantages.
I will continue to root with the same passion that has burned in my belly for years, and I will not join the dark side of repeating endlessly that Willard must go, but I will continue to be baffled at this train wreck.It is sad but in my world when there is such failure the joke has always been that "he stays because he has pictures of the bosses from the off site holiday party".

 

[TheBluePirate]

Willard had so many flaws that for the life of me I could not understand why he was not given some tools for development. I am not going to try and give a pop psychology analysis, but the patterns were so obvious I wondered is this a case of a guy that can't really perform, but manages up flawlessly. His tenure has been a disaster, and trying to find the root causes at the Hall in order to find remedies are in my humble opinion practically impossible.

As usual, great perceptive depth. The topic of tools for development has come up over and over again - with no apparent result ever occurring. Your second sentence is the sterling example of the truly hard-won gem of deep understanding. Wow - the case of the guy who cannot really perform but manages flawlessly. There it is. There is not a bigger "THIS".

 

[sportsfantatic44]

The biggest problem is that Willard is owed a lot of money and I just don't see the administration ponying up a lot of money on the next coach. Would love to be wrong here. Hall is going to have to potentially pay 2 salaries in the next 2 years (if they make the change) That's a big issue. There are no big donors. And nobody of any substance is coming here on a discount. Basketball program is in enormous trouble now. The Rock is going to be a ghost town in Big East play. Sad but true.

 

[catholicman]

I regret having said anything negative in this thread against our AD, Mr. Lyons. I have concerns, which I expressed. What galled me was the timing of the original post. After what I consider a bad loss, I do not want to read a press release about how so and so is so beneficial.

 

[TheBluePirate]

After what I consider a bad loss, I do not want to read a press release about how so and so is so beneficial.

Hard to argue with your emotion. So - instead of arguing, I'll opt for listening.

 

[TheBluePirate]

I personally know some of these individuals and the main problem is that they have not even been appoached regarding a potential donation.

It stands to reason that wealthy donors who are inclined to make a difference with their wealth regarding a particular cause of interest **self-select** by making their interests known.

I've seen various letters and brochures for Pirate Blue fundraising generally sent - are these friends of yours waiting for Pat Lyons to become Karnak the Magnificent and send a handwritten letter out of the blue knowing that THEY are wealthy and might they donate a large sum?

Perhaps you might suggest to your friends to contact Pat Lyons - and I'm serious with that suggestion - if they really want to make a difference.

Management of the donation engagement is not your standard automobile salesman act, it does not seem to me.