Post of the Year and some thoughts....

[pmulcahy96]

This is the post of the year: "Be happy when Seton Hall wins and don't care when Seton Hall loses, just like the administration treats it." Well articulated, and this certainly made me laugh SPK.

I have been very supportive of coach Willard, but it's unfathomable how he can return next year, a buy out should never be an excuse when you are in the Big East. I have 10 brothers, 8 of us make up the Big East the other 3 went to St. Louis, Notre Dame and BC. I am tired of getting mocked. I certainly have been hoodwinked by a couple of fellow Seton Hall alumni. All is swell here at Seton Hall, but keep the donations coming because we are fiscally irresponsible. Another season of just drop your pants and grab your ankles. At least Baseball season is here!!

 

[SPK145]

Originally posted by pmulcahy96:
This is the post of the year: "Be happy when Seton Hall wins and don't care when Seton Hall loses, just like the administration treats it." Well articulated, and this certainly made me laugh SPK.

I didn't post that to be funny, it's how I now get through the games. I now watch as much more a college basketball fan and very little as a Seton Hall fan. It's also obviously how the administration feels about it, that's obvious, not from the refusual to dismiss Willard but from the untenable (love that word!!) buyout.

 

[knowknow456]

Originally posted by SPK145:

Originally posted by pmulcahy96:
This is the post of the year: "Be happy when Seton Hall wins and don't care when Seton Hall loses, just like the administration treats it." Well articulated, and this certainly made me laugh SPK.

I didn't post that to be funny, it's how I now get through the games. I now watch as much more a college basketball fan and very little as a Seton Hall fan. It's also obviously how the administration feels about it, that's obvious, not from the refusual to dismiss Willard but from the untenable (love that word!!) buyout.

You would save us all a lot of time if you would just spit it out. You already told us two weeks ago that "two years is standard" for a buyout but we have an untenable (love that word) situation. That means Willard's is more than two years - so is it 3, 4 or more?

In that same post you used the word - "base salary". We know from another post that on the most recent form 990 the school reported Willard compensation as $1,400,000. I presume the base is somewhat lower but i don't know what that actual number is - can you put us in the ballpark?

Then if you could explain the context of how the buyout was negotiated, that would be helpful as well. Specifically, who negotiated it and who approved it?




This post was edited on 3/6 3:14 PM by knowknow456

 

[its haLL baLL]

Originally posted by knowknow456:

Originally posted by SPK145:

Originally posted by pmulcahy96:
This is the post of the year: "Be happy when Seton Hall wins and don't care when Seton Hall loses, just like the administration treats it." Well articulated, and this certainly made me laugh SPK.

I didn't post that to be funny, it's how I now get through the games. I now watch as much more a college basketball fan and very little as a Seton Hall fan. It's also obviously how the administration feels about it, that's obvious, not from the refusual to dismiss Willard but from the untenable (love that word!!) buyout.

You would save us all a lot of time if you would just spit it out. You already told us two weeks ago that "two years is standard" for a buyout but we have an untenable (love that word) situation. That means Willard's is more than two years - so is it 3, 4 or more?

In that same post you used the word - "base salary". We know from another post that on the most recent form 990 the school reported Willard compensation as $1,400,000. I presume the base is somewhat lower but i don't know what that actual number is - can you put us in the ballpark?

Then if you could explain the context of how the buyout was negotiated, that would be helpful as well. Specifically, who negotiated it and who approved it?




This post was edited on 3/6 3:14 PM by knowknow456

I believe that base salary was around 700k previously, but that may have changed if an extension was signed.

This post was edited on 3/6 3:20 PM by its haLL baLL

 

[SPK145]

Base salary was $820K of that $1.4 million.

 

[knowknow456]

Originally posted by SPK145:
Base salary was $820K of that $1.4 million.

Thanks.

I see elsewhere where we talk about the "disconnect" between athletics and the University as a whole. I believe that tension exists at many universities and we all know just how dysfunctional we were. It seems like only yesterday the President was thanking the field and track team and the athletic department was being administered by a nun. We've come a long way since then, and still there are miles to go before I sleep.

I can live with a bad deal, things happen. I cannot even be certain if it was a bad deal because I have no context. What the problem lies (for me anyway) is where was the oversight at the time and did oversight exist? If everyone agreed to the deal and now we have buyer's remorse, so be it. The only question left is how did we get there and who signed off? Is that within your boundary of knowledge?

 

[jimmyd36]

The challenge you have is the business case is not there to buy Willard out this year. I personally have gone on record that if they spend a million (or whatever it is) I will pull my donation next year. That being said I have told Lyons personally, that if there is a mass defection of athletes that could change. If the team as it stands now (excluding the seniors) comes back Im willing to give it one more year and roll the dice we can get back to the top 20 team we were previously. Am I happy with losing, with our record, absolutely not but I'd be less happy with a new coach (and a million solar check) when I think there is a "possibility" we can get back to where we were 5 weeks ago. For me I'm taking a step back, looking at probabilities and making a business case for "my" donation. If the school wastes a million on a buyout my donation goes... I don't have a building in my name but donate enough (via money and mentoring students in my free time). If donors want to get a fund to buyout Willard be my guest, but if a dollar of my donation goes towards something like that I'm out so there is the other side of the "fire Wilard" team. I'm not necessarily a "Wilard Fan" just not a fan of donating thousands and thousands of dollars that go towards a buyout this year. Go ahead and flame or email Lyons u will cover my donation whichever is fine w me.

 

[shu09]

You love to make business analogies, so I'll play along. What you fail to recognize is that buying out Willard and making a good new hire is an investment in the future of the program. The long term potential is greater than any short term pain. Businesses do this all the time when the leader just isn't getting the job done. Rolling the dice, as you said in your post, is NOT a good business strategy.

If he comes back for a sixth year, the costs to the program (not just monetary), will be greater. Recruiting will be hamstrung and the long term prospects for the program will be grim. A new coach who knows what he's doing can invigorate the program, attract recruits and actually implement a style of play that is efficient on the court. There are plenty of good coaches out there to choose from.

Instead of looking at a short term cost, look at the long term potential that making a change would bring. You love to use that "top 20 team" five weeks ago talking point, but it's totally baseless. You sound like a political operative trying to defend the indefensible. Teams move in and out of the top 25 all year long. The programs with good roots, good leadership and a good system stay there. We certainly aren't one of them.

 

[knowknow456]

Originally posted by jimmyd36:
The challenge you have is the business case is not there to buy Willard out this year.

First off, I am from the twitter generation. if you could break down your thoughts in smaller bits, it would be helpful for me. Maybe throw in a second paragraph every once in awhile.

In this case, I stopped reading after the first sentence. I am not interested in your opinion of what you will do with your donation if there is a buy out. Whatever you decide is fine by me.

The business case is the issue. They put together this buy out package - whether it is good or bad is not the main point at this moment. Someone had to ask the question - "what is gonna happen if we have to buy him out?" There had to be an answer to that question. Maybe they were deliriously optimistic and thought they won't have to worry about it, but my understanding is that risk management is a real thing. What was the plan if we really had to buy him out?

This post was edited on 3/6 4:15 PM by knowknow456

 

[Save Continental]

Originally posted by jimmyd36:
For me I'm taking a step back, looking at probabilities and making a business case for "my" donation. If the school wastes a million on a buyout my donation goes... I don't have a building in my name but donate enough (via money and mentoring students in my free time).

Therein lies a fundamental difference between you and many on this board. You look at a million dollar buyout as being "wasted", where I look at a million dollar buyout as cracking a few eggs to make an omelette. I understand your angle though. It's your money, and alot of it.

Many of us on here, I assume, are not humongous donors. A thousand here, a few hundred there, our season tickets. So we take a bottom line look - is the basketball program moving in the right direction - and when it's clearly not, people want changes. The cost of a buyout, maybe, just maybe, with a decent hire for once, could be offset by some future success that seems obvious we're not going to get with this regime.

 

[chickenbox]

People raising hell about the cost of the buyout are nuts. When you have the chance to land a Kevin Willard you lock him up no matter the price.

 

[jimmyd36]

456 I come from the generation of successful, self employed business owners who can write any way we please because we sign our own paychecks.Its pretty awesome being a douche w some extra coin so I recommend you work hard and aim high. The good news is you guys that are freaking out can easily match my donation and buyout my influence- it really isn't that much money. I'm simply stating my opinion as it relates to my donation which seems opposite to some others. I say, keep willard, roll the dice (should everyone come back) and put the million dollars towards more scholarships, facilities, etc. Just donate if you want your voice heard.

This post was edited on 3/6 4:53 PM by jimmyd36

 

[HallBall10]

Base salary was $820K of that $1.4 million....

Does that mean he received $580k of bonuses/incentives? Lol. I have to see this contract.

200k if we can beat the powerhouse known as Rutgers.
50K if he can make a loss seem like we're gaining positive momentum.
10k every time the team successfully inbounds the ball.
25k every time the team successfully inbounds the ball on the same side of the court.
100k if he shows some sort of emotion during halftime or anytime at all by March 1.

 

[knowknow456]

Originally posted by jimmyd36:
456 I come from the generation of successful, self employed business owners who can write any way we please because we sign our own paychecks.Its pretty awesome being a douche w some extra coin so I recommend you work hard and aim high. The good news is you guys that are freaking out can easily match my donation and buyout my influence- it really isn't that much money. I'm simply stating my opinion as it relates to my donation which seems opposite to some others. I say, keep willard, roll the dice (should everyone come back) and put the million dollars towards more scholarships, facilities, etc. Just donate if you want your voice heard.

This post was edited on 3/6 4:53 PM by jimmyd36

1. As you wish - being a self proclaimed douche is one of the perks of signing your own paycheck.

2. I will repeat, I have no problem with however you decide to deal with your contribution

3. I asked a semi coherent business question. As a successful, self employed business owner, I am interested in your opinion should you choose to give it.

This post was edited on 3/6 5:06 PM by knowknow456

 

[jcalz88]

May not agree with you, but god i love your style.

 

[TheBluePirate]

Originally posted by jcalz88:
May not agree with you, but god i love your style.

LOL!

This may be the head coach's motto as well - "Its pretty awesome being a douche w some extra coin so I recommend you work hard and aim high."

Made my day. Does not matter whether I agree with JimmyD or not - and I'm standing up here on the gallows platform like everyone else. It was still pretty funny.

 

[jimmyd36]

For me it's roll the dice and put the million dollars towards the other student athletes. That's a lot of money especially when h take into account our returning players. My donations is based off that nothing more.

 

[jimmyd36]

I'm actually not a total douche btw I critique SHU students resumes in my free time and mentor them. That being said there is another side to the "it's only a million dollars" argument and that's me. On my island alone lol

 

[knowknow456]

Originally posted by jimmyd36:
For me it's roll the dice and put the million dollars towards the other student athletes. That's a lot of money especially when h take into account our returning players. My donations is based off that nothing more.

Is this for me?

First, you need to update your numbers. You can now work with a minimum of $1.64 million upwards to $3.2 million, depending on what you want to believe.

Second, you didn't answer my question. Are you saying our strategy in the worst case scenario was to bleed Pirate Blue to pay the buy out? Or did we not consider a worst case scenario?. In your successful career, did you ever make a risk assessment and did your analysis include asking your customers/suppliers for a little help?

 

[jimmyd36]

I'm doing a simple cost benefit analysis with my donation. Keep in mind I had a 6 figure job and quit to start a business in my friends moms basement (true story). I take risks and do stuff based on gut feel and rolling the dice. My gut is, if the team comes back, there is a better than 70% chance we are successful. I could be wrong and people can point to the last 5 years but, I look at where we were 5 weeks ago. Now for me the "benefits" against the cost of the buyout (let's call it $1 million) doesn't do it for me.. I'm not very smart btw but to be a successful entrepreneur you need to think big and do things your friends and family say "are you F'ing stupid". I've done a lot dumber things in business and it worked out for me so get onboard the Jimmy Train and lets go Pirates!

 

[knowknow456]

Ok, thanks.

You are an entrepreneur so risk assessment means little to you. You took a risk and it paid off. .

I could ask how you concluded we have a 70 (as opposed to, say, 60 or 80) percent chance for success next year, but I presume you kind of made that number up.

The question here is about a multi-million dollar bureaucracy and how they proposed to deal with a potential million dollar plus buy out. You don't know the answer but some people here do. I am hoping they can give an answer.

This post was edited on 3/6 5:39 PM by knowknow456

 

[SHU90s]

Originally posted by jimmyd36:
My gut is, if the team comes back, there is a better than 70% chance we are successful.

What do you mean when you say "successful," Jimmy?

 

[jimmyd36]

Keep in mind I can't balance my own checkbook but my business is thriving based on gut decisions. In my mind we have the players to get us back to the top 25 next year. I think its a strong enough possibility (but not guaranteed) that if they were to spend a million (or whatever) to buyout Willard I will pull my donation. It's my gut, my prerogative. Nothing scientific about it. I'll put my money where my mouth is though.

 

[knowknow456]

Originally posted by jimmyd36:
Keep in mind I can't balance my own checkbook but my business is thriving based on gut decisions. In my mind we have the players to get us back to the top 25 next year. I think its a strong enough possibility (but not guaranteed) that if they were to spend a million (or whatever) to buyout Willard I will pull my donation. It's my gut, my prerogative. Nothing scientific about it. I'll put my money where my mouth is though.

I would love to listen to you and hallgrad80 discuss business philosophy

 

[TheBluePirate]

Originally posted by jimmyd36:
So get onboard the Jimmy Train and lets go Pirates!

Honestly, the Jimmy Train may be the only option we have!

This emoji is for my many good Pirate friends:

 

[jimmyd36]

Guys I'm in Cano next week for the Big East tourney so if we are losing and I still sound positive just explaining why that is so u don't freak.

 

[SHU90s]

Originally posted by jimmyd36:


Keep in mind I can't balance my own checkbook but my business is thriving based on gut decisions. In my mind we have the players to get us back to the top 25 next year. I think its a strong enough possibility (but not guaranteed) that if they were to spend a million (or whatever) to buyout Willard I will pull my donation. It's my gut, my prerogative. Nothing scientific about it. I'll put my money where my mouth is though.

Jimmy, we are all very happy that you are a successful alum, and that you are able to generate so generously to Pirate Blue -- seriously, we could use a lot more donors like you. That said, no one is questioning your right to do what you wish with your donation, and you don't have to keep reminding us in every post you write that you may pull your donation if Willard is fired. We understand that you may, and wholly support your right to do so. Let's re-focus on how you would define success next year. You say that we have the players "to get us back to the Top 25 next year," but there is no real context to that statement. Hell, we had the players to get us to the Top 25 this year. Is "success" for you being in the Top 25 at the end of the regular season, when it actually means something? Is it an NCAA berth next season? Or would you consider it a "success" if Willard gets us to the Top 25 for only a few weeks in the middle of the season next year? I'm genuinely curious.

 

[Flnj86]

Next year we will have a successful year, Top 3 in the BE Conference.

 

[TheBluePirate]

Originally posted by Flnj86:
Next year we will have a successful year, Top 3 in the BE Conference.

Hahahahaha. No.

 

[shupat08]

Flnj... A week ago you were calling for KW's head now you want to keep him and we will be Top 3 in the BE?

Okay...

 

[jimmyd36]

The context is the same group of guys (minus the seniors) got us in the top 20 about 5 weeks ago.... The success part was in a joke to the hipster telling me I'm too verbose for his Twitter mind lol. I'm really not successful.

 

[SPK145]

Originally posted by jimmyd36:

The challenge you have is the business case is not there to buy Willard out this year. I personally have gone on record that if they spend a million (or whatever it is) I will pull my donation next year. That being said I have told Lyons personally, that if there is a mass defection of athletes that could change.

That doesn't seem like a business case then, that's a basketball case. You believe in Willard on some level.

 

[jcalz88]

This is my favorite thread ever on the board. Douche and Hipster both used!!

 

[SPK145]

Originally posted by jimmyd36:
The context is the same group of guys (minus the seniors and Whitehead) got us in the top 20 about 5 weeks ago.

Fixed that for you.

And at this point the seniors > the recruits.

 

[jimmyd36]

Funny SPK! Ok I'm in DC, going to rally the troops for a win! For the other people not pulling your donation if Willard is here next year, know I'm here for support! I'm the voice of reason !

 

[lokiSHU]

You may know your business; but high major college basketball - not so much. Maybe stick to handing over the checks to SHU and clapping

 

[shupat08]

Jcalz... Can I ask you something? Since this thread is ridiculous as is...

Is that you who wears the white backwards hat on the sidelines?

 

[hallgrad80]

The only thing we know for sure about Willard's contract is that his latest reported compensation was $1.4 million. There are so many key unanswered questions that anyone who has followed this debate would need in order to make any informed decision .Here's what I'd sure like to know:

1. What was the length of his original contract;
2. What were the terms of his buyout in that original contract;
3. Has his original contract been amended with respect to his compensation, the length of the contract or its buyout provisions;
4. If the contract has been amended how many times;
5 . If the contract has been amended what were the reasons supporting any amendment;
6. Who recommended that amendments to the contract and who approved those changes, if any;
7. What risk analysis , if any, were performed to determine the financial viability of Seton Hall to enforce the buyout provisions if that became necessary;
8. What are the terms of the buyout provision now in effect.br>
I recognize that the likelihood of ever getting those questions answered is less then zero but they should be questions that SH should be asking as it finds itself in this impossible position.

This post was edited on 3/6 9:01 PM by hallgrad80

 

[chickenbox]

Originally posted by shupat08:
Flnj... A week ago you were calling for KW's head now you want to keep him and we will be Top 3 in the BE?

Okay...

That wasn't him, it was one of his other personalities.

 

[deheremike]

Hope he gets back on his meds soon. He is delusional and needs to be brought back to reality. He was in a good place last week, hope he gets back there.