Roster Breakdown by Class

[g0pirates]

Current scholarship breakdown by year. What stands out to you?

GRAD: Dawes, Bediako
SR: Wusu, Kooks, Davis
JR: EHE
SOPH: Nganga, Sanders, Harris
FR: Tubek, Coleman
(Farrakhan ? )

To me, center continues to be the position we’ll need to prioritize in recruiting. Need a young on-ball guard too.

 

[g0pirates]

Upperclassmen: 3 guards, 1 wing, 2 centers
Underclassmen: 2 guards, 1 wing, 2 stretch bigs

 

[dehere23]

The class distribution matters annually in terms of what experience a team has. Beyond that I view this all as year to year now. Kids leave earlier for professional options all the time. Kids can transfer “free” once. Even if the second transfer waiver stuff becomes hard, I don’t think that will impact the grad transfer rights. Way less concerned about this than I used to be because I think there will be significant turnover annually for most teams.

 

[thehall07]

It’s 8/13 and we have 2 ships open…. I am worried that Sha and staff have no hope.

 

[TRUE SHU FAN]

It’s 8/13 and we have 2 ships open…. I am worried that Sha and staff have no hope.

Strange we could not get even a serviceable pg to backup Kooks knowing we have 2 spots left and health concerns.

 

[dehere23]

We tried to get multiple. He apparently threatened to transfer at the notion of the first good option coming on board. I’m sure that affected going forward strategy.

 

[IronKaz1]

Grab Ty Shine haha

 

[thehall07]

We tried to get multiple. He apparently threatened to transfer at the notion of the first good option coming on board. I’m sure that affected going forward strategy.

And sit out, I don’t buy it

 

[JTSHU]

So kadary doesnt want us to have a serviceable backup for when hes tired or gets in foul trouble. Im sorry but kadary isnt dre barrett.

 

[dehere23]

And sit out, I don’t buy it

I hear you. Some guys were obviously willing to roll the dice the NCAA would cave on the second-time transfer thing. No clue if he was one of them. All I know is what was reported during the Alexander recruitment. From the most reliable source(s) we have on these boards. Sha apparently pulled out the stops to try and get both Wilcher and JQ, and those guys would have impacted KR's run at the PG slot no doubt, so perhaps at that point Sha was just more willing to risk a disgruntled KR. Again I try not to guess on this stuff but what I stated was reported about KR's threatening to leave if we secured someone who was going to potentially command more than backup minutes at the point.

 

[dehere23]

So kadary doesnt want us to have a serviceable backup for when hes tired or gets in foul trouble. Im sorry but kadary isnt dre barrett.

Not that he doesn't want a "pure" backup. But anyone that is going potentially command more than your typical "backup" minutes in that spot was apparently a no-go.

 

[thehall07]

I hear you. Some guys were obviously willing to roll the dice the NCAA would cave on the second-time transfer thing. No clue if he was one of them. All I know is what was reported during the Alexander recruitment. From the most reliable source(s) we have on these boards. Sha apparently pulled out the stops to try and get both Wilcher and JQ, and those guys would have impacted KR's run at the PG slot no doubt, so perhaps at that point Sha was just more willing to risk a disgruntled KR. Again I try not to guess on this stuff but what I stated was reported about KR's threatening to leave if we secured someone who was going to potentially command more than backup minutes at the point.

Both those guys required more money then what we could afford, case closed nothing else to the story.

 

[radecicco]

Please. We will go as far a Kadaryvwill take us. He’ll get 30 minutes a game. Not too many “quality” point guards are going to sign up for 10 minutes a game. Just the way it is.

 

[dehere23]

Please. We will go as far a Kadaryvwill take us. He’ll get 30 minutes a game. Not too many “quality” point guards are going to sign up for 10 minutes a game. Just the way it is.

Except most all good programs have a projected PG starter who is going to get 25-30 minutes per night and still have at least one competent backup of some kind. Not all. But many, many do. It might be a freshman or sophomore who needs time to develop. Or a transfer that is a combo-type looking to get better at handling the PG duties.

I'm not saying we should have shown Kadary the door by any means. We have no choice. But we should be able to get a second PG-type on the roster.

 

[dehere23]

Both those guys required more money then what we could afford, case closed nothing else to the story.

I'm sure you are right, but we made a run at both, again per informed posters here.

 

[HALL85]

Except most all good programs have a projected PG starter who is going to get 25-30 minutes per night and still have at least one competent backup of some kind. Not all. But many, many do. It might be a freshman or sophomore who needs time to develop. Or a transfer that is a combo-type looking to get better at handling the PG duties.

I'm not saying we should have shown Kadary the door by any means. We have no choice. But we should be able to get a second PG-type on the roster.

Isn’t that a money thing though? We don’t appear to have the assets to invest in a deep roster.

 

[radecicco]

Except most all good programs have a projected PG starter who is going to get 25-30 minutes per night and still have at least one competent backup of some kind. Not all. But many, many do. It might be a freshman or sophomore who needs time to develop. Or a transfer that is a combo-type looking to get better at handling the PG duties.

I'm not saying we should have shown Kadary the door by any means. We have no choice. But we should be able to get a second PG-type on the roster.

Fair enough. I’m saying that in this new era guys want to play meaningful minutes right away. If you have a standout PG who is going to play 30 minutes a game not too many guys are going to be interested. And supposedly we have that developmental guy in Sanders or possibly Harris. It is what it is at this point.

 

[Seton75]

Please. We will go as far a Kadaryvwill take us. He’ll get 30 minutes a game. Not too many “quality” point guards are going to sign up for 10 minutes a game. Just the way it is.

The only PG of note I remember hearing was posh. And while he plays Kadary's position, if we pay attn here we know KR was not the one to make threats to leave if we took him.

 

[thehall07]

I'm sure you are right, but we made a run at both, again per informed posters here.

I made a run at a lot of things that were a waste of time in my past but I learned from it.

 

[g0pirates]

And supposedly we have that developmental guy in Sanders or possibly Harris.

I don’t see Sanders as an on-ball guard. More of a catch n shoot perimeter threat who provides spacing.

Harris- who knows. If he pans out, great. But we can’t bank on that

 

[dehere23]

The only PG of note I remember hearing was posh. And while he plays Kadary's position, if we pay attn here we know KR was not the one to make threats to leave if we took him.

I do pay attention here, like you. The issue with Posh seemed to be a combination of Wusu and KR. Wusu apparently wasn't going to come. And - an important "and" -- KR said he was gone. It was then clarified that KR's issue was not specific to Posh. It was about any PG threat coming on board that might take more than "when KR needs rest" minutes at the position. No doubt that impacted the staff's strategy and ability going forward to land someone, although at some point it seems Sha did chase a few high end targets.

This isn't about Posh. While he was one of my favorite non-Seton Hall players over the past few years based on how he played, etc, after hearing the Pitino/Posh story posted here I was fine on not getting him for that reason alone.

 

[dehere23]

Fair enough. I’m saying that in this new era guys want to play meaningful minutes right away. If you have a standout PG who is going to play 30 minutes a game not too many guys are going to be interested. And supposedly we have that developmental guy in Sanders or possibly Harris. It is what it is at this point.

I think that's true to a point. But if we combed through the rosters of other high majors we will see plenty of examples of teams securing multiple PG options. Just going off the top of my head, Providence brought in Dual and convinced Pierre to stay -- both are PGs. Nova kept Armstrong even though I believe he's projected to be a 6th man type and kept Moore, who will presumably play significant minutes in the PG role. Pitino convinced Wilcher to leave North-freaking-Carolina even though Pitino brought in one of this guys from Iona to be the starting PG. I'm sure we can find others. Now, you can chalk that up to NIL too, but I find it hard to believe Providence was the "highest" bidder for Dual given how he blew up in his recruitment (he's already on NBA mocks for next year). I also was told by Bergen County prep-hoops guys that Pitino was not the "highest bidder" for Wilcher. In both cases it seems it was the staff "closing" without having the deepest pocket by selling other things, like player development, which is always going to be a huge factor in this stuff.

 

[dehere23]

Isn’t that a money thing though? We don’t appear to have the assets to invest in a deep roster.

See my last post. Yes, of course I definitely think that is a reason. But it is not the ONLY reason IMO.

 

[Seton75]

This isnt about you either Dehere. I just read about kr scaring away points and i cant think of an example.

You can think femi left cause he wanted more pg time and kr said no way. But imo that decision was simple and answered on the court last year.

 

[hallgrad80]

Too often the easy solution that people use as to why we lost a player we recruited hard is that we were outbid and we’re not able to compete financially for that player. Don’t get me wrong the financial package we can pit together is the primary reason our recruiting is suffering but not the only reason and we should not ignore that.

 

[thehall07]

Too often the easy solution that people use as to why we lost a player we recruited hard is that we were outbid and we’re not able to compete financially for that player. Don’t get me wrong the financial package we can pit together is the primary reason our recruiting is suffering but not the only reason and we should not ignore that.

Agreed but BS stories shouldn’t be the reason , it’s poor staff construction also.

 

[Piratz]

I really don’t know what to make of roster configuration right now. It’s crazy. Let’s say Tubek and Coleman end up being steals. Do we have enough money to keep them and replace the handful who may depart? I hope Bediako, EHE, DAW, and NgaNga find their best selves here. 🤷‍♂️

I hope we can build continuity but it’s year to year right now. We have a HC in Year 2, a program bringing a water gun to a gun fight, and a sh-t show of a sport with recruiting. My hope is we have a successful team and good citizens that make it a fun Nov-Mar. That’s it.

 

[radecicco]

I think that's true to a point. But if we combed through the rosters of other high majors we will see plenty of examples of teams securing multiple PG options. Just going off the top of my head, Providence brought in Dual and convinced Pierre to stay -- both are PGs. Nova kept Armstrong even though I believe he's projected to be a 6th man type and kept Moore, who will presumably play significant minutes in the PG role. Pitino convinced Wilcher to leave North-freaking-Carolina even though Pitino brought in one of this guys from Iona to be the starting PG. I'm sure we can find others. Now, you can chalk that up to NIL too, but I find it hard to believe Providence was the "highest" bidder for Dual given how he blew up in his recruitment (he's already on NBA mocks for next year). I also was told by Bergen County prep-hoops guys that Pitino was not the "highest bidder" for Wilcher. In both cases it seems it was the staff "closing" without having the deepest pocket by selling other things, like player development, which is always going to be a huge factor in this stuff.

How about selling Pitino to these guys plus NIL. Let’s see how all these multiple high level PG duos work out during the season.

 

[dehere23]

How about selling Pitino to these guys plus NIL. Let’s see how all these multiple high level PG duos work out during the season.

You never know, especially with the kids right out of HS or prep. But wouldn’t you rather have more talent than less, all things being equal? I would. It is clearly a position of need for us otherwise we wouldn’t be waiting for a kid like Noah F. The staff has their hands tied in some ways by the NIL situation, but it seeks a combination of lack of recruiting prowess and KR’s demands played a role here too. And yes KR is our most important player this coming season, so I’m not suggesting we should have run him out by any means. My point is that many, many other schools find ways to get multiple ball handling options and navigate this stuff with players obviously wanting PT, because all these kids think they should be playing big minutes and have professional aspirations. Like the famous Calhoun quote of “I have one Kemba, and 7 guys who think they are Kemba”. Or something like that.

 

[hallgrad80]

Reading the comments on this thread says to me we have poor leadership in key positions at the Hall and we’re always playing catchup leading us to being reactive not proactive and that is clearly revealed In how unprepared for NIL we were.

 

[radecicco]

You never know, especially with the kids right out of HS or prep. But wouldn’t you rather have more talent than less, all things being equal? I would. It is clearly a position of need for us otherwise we wouldn’t be waiting for a kid like Noah F. The staff has their hands tied in some ways by the NIL situation, but it seeks a combination of lack of recruiting prowess and KR’s demands played a role here too. And yes KR is our most important player this coming season, so I’m not suggesting we should have run him out by any means. My point is that many, many other schools find ways to get multiple ball handling options and navigate this stuff with players obviously wanting PT, because all these kids think they should be playing big minutes and have professional aspirations. Like the famous Calhoun quote of “I have one Kemba, and 7 guys who think they are Kemba”. Or something like that.

Dehere, I don’t think we disagree. My only point is that SHU has many factors that Sha and the staff need to overcome to even to get into a meaningful discussion on the recruiting trail. One of them is to keep Kadary in a good frame of mind.

 

[Piratz]

Reading the comments on this thread says to me we have poor leadership in key positions at the Hall and we’re always playing catchup leading us to being reactive not proactive and that is clearly revealed In how unprepared for NIL we were.

Dehere, I don’t think we disagree. My only point is that SHU has many factors that Sha and the staff need to overcome to even to get into a meaningful discussion on the recruiting trail. One of them is to keep Kadary in a good frame of mind.

Isn’t this really the story of Seton Hall? At least in the 44+ years of the Big East Era. We’ve always had to operate with way less resources and a reactionary, almost passive/cronyism leadership model IMO.

Fortunately we’ve had a handful of game changers over those years that saw opportunity and were able to drive it, but it was never easy or timely. It’s almost like an ace business pro dropping into a mom & pop company and trying to drive change. It’s a culture shock. NIL ended up being the same but it seems we have those change agents in place. Hopefully those voices continue to be heard and are given a path to drive it forward so Holloway can produce teams like we saw from 2015-2022. Anything else is tremendous, but that’s the baseline to me at this stage. Be a perennial NCAA Tournament team in Big East banners contention, and let Sha coach ‘em up in the Dance.

 

[TRUE SHU FAN]

For now we have 10 semi healthy players, 3 of them missed time last season (Dre, Kooks and NgaNga) and I hope we can stay as healthy as possible.

 

[thehall07]

For now we have 10 semi healthy players, 3 of them missed time last season (Dre, Kooks and NgaNga) and I hope we can stay as healthy as possible.

And one guy who hasn’t played ball in 2.5 years

 

[chickenbox]

And one guy who hasn’t played ball in 2.5 years

Should be fresh!

 

[Piratz]

For now we have 10 semi healthy players, 3 of them missed time last season (Dre, Kooks and NgaNga) and I hope we can stay as healthy as possible.

Respectability this season boils down to Richmond and Davis anyway. If their games missed repeat, turn out the lights.