Roster Construction By HS Ranking

[HallBall02]

This post was lost on another thread. But we have come along way with talent on the roster. While HS rankings isn't the end all be all, it probably does increase the chances that the recruit will be a big east contributor and starter.

We also didn't get some of our top 100 kids straight out of HS but with the new transfer rules, it doesn't really matter and now being bridesmaid out of HS works in our favor.

I noted some of the international guys that come to the states late aren't scouted as well.

Top 100 Players out of HS on next year's team:
Obiagu 2017 #63 (Nigeria)
Weston 2021 #77
Jackson 2019 #85
Richmond 2020 #88
Cale 2017 #92

Not too far off:
Powell 2021 #125
Conway 2021 #144

Diamonds in the rough:
Samuel 2019 #184 (Canada)
Rhoden 2018 #200
Long 2020 #256
Yetna 2017 #325 (France)
Harris 2017 #329
Ngandu 2020 #? (Congo)

Next Season:
Harris 2022 #143

 

[thehall07]

its nice to see but at this point I dont care what they were ranked in HS if they have played 1 year in college as what we have seen with our eyes means more.

I get your point though its nice to see the uptick.

 

[HallBall02]

You don't care at all? I think you are in the minority here.

I think all seton hall fans should care that we have players that are deemed elite out of HS.

However like I mentioned this isn't the end all be all and should be weighted accordingly. For instance if they are a transfer and they haven't' played well at their first college team, maybe they aren't as good as they were expected to be so this would hold less weight.

 

[HallBall02]

Is this our projected starters by best defensive unit by end of year:

PG Richmond (will be a stud on D)
SG Cale
SF Rhoden
PF Yetna (brings more defensive rebounds)
C Obiagu (blocks)

Projected starters by best offensive unit
PG Conway
SG Harris
SF Weston/Powell?
PF Rhoden
C Samuel/Yetna?

We are loaded.

 

[ceballoj]

Is this our projected starters by best defensive unit by end of year:

PG Richmond (will be a stud on D)
SG Cale
SF Rhoden
PF Yetna (brings more defensive rebounds)
C Obiagu (blocks)

Projected starters by best offensive unit
PG Conway
SG Harris
SF Weston/Powell?
PF Rhoden
C Samuel/Yetna?

We are loaded.

Lots of good pieces potentially. Hopefully Willard can put it all together.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Is this our projected starters by best defensive unit by end of year:

PG Richmond (will be a stud on D)
SG Cale
SF Rhoden
PF Yetna (brings more defensive rebounds)
C Obiagu (blocks)

Projected starters by best offensive unit
PG Conway
SG Harris
SF Weston/Powell?
PF Rhoden
C Samuel/Yetna?

We are loaded.

I'm really looking forward to seeing Conway on the defensive side of the ball. What do we know about Richmond as an on ball defender? There's not much to go by with the Syracuse vaunted man to man that's showcased twice a year. Just my 2 cents, that's where Conway and Long can really crack the lineup for major minutes by being our best on ball defender. If you're confident Richmond is a stud in that department then that would be a different story.

 

[HallBall02]

I'm really looking forward to seeing Conway on the defensive side of the ball. What do we know about Richmond as an on ball defender? There's not much to go by with the Syracuse vaunted man to man that's showcased twice a year. Just my 2 cents, that's where Conway and Long can really crack the lineup for major minutes by being our best on ball defender. If you're confident Richmond is a stud in that department then that would be a different story.

IMHO it’s one of Richmond’s best attributes. Although he played the top of zone mostly and not much man. His length, size and quickness at the PG on defense is already elite. Per 40 minutes would have been leader in ACC in steals. I may be underselling his offense a bit tho. I’m not as confident in his ability to shoot from range.

conway is the opposite. I heard that D was his weakness only bc of his size and not playing against top tier comp with public school in maryland. Conways strength for sure is a scorer and range where before covid he had the chance to be the all time highest scorer in Maryland history in HS.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

IMHO it’s one of Richmond’s best attributes. Although he played the top of zone mostly and not much man. His length, size and quickness at the PG on defense is already elite. Per 40 minutes would have been leader in ACC in steals. I may be underselling his offense a bit tho. I’m not as confident in his ability to shoot from range.

conway is the opposite. I heard that D was his weakness only bc of his size and not playing against top tier comp with public school in maryland. Conways strength for sure is a scorer and range where before covid he had the chance to be the all time highest scorer in Maryland history in HS.

I believe Yetna made more 3's as a freshman than Richmond took. I think we really need another shooter or we need major improvement from some of our guys. If Harris is the only guy who really strikes fear in the defense from behind the arc, it's not only going to make things tougher.

 

[lloyde dobler]

You don't care at all? I think you are in the minority here.

I think all seton hall fans should care that we have players that are deemed elite out of HS.

However like I mentioned this isn't the end all be all and should be weighted accordingly. For instance if they are a transfer and they haven't' played well at their first college team, maybe they aren't as good as they were expected to be so this would hold less weight.

I think the point is once someone is in college for a while, and especially as a transfer, it becomes outdated. Beyond the first 50 and maybe 100, it’s all kind of useless anyway.

 

[HallBall02]

I believe Yetna made more 3's as a freshman than Richmond took. I think we really need another shooter or we need major improvement from some of our guys. If Harris is the only guy who really strikes fear in the defense from behind the arc, it's not only going to make things tougher.

3 pt shooters I’m most confident in are probably Harris, Cale, Conway, Rhoden. Somewhat of a greenlight to shoot 3s are Samuel, Yetna, Powell, in that order.


at least 2 or 3 of those players will be on the court at all times to keep the D a bit honest.

everyone else needs to prove they can hit before getting a green light.

 

[HallBall02]

I think the point is once someone is in college for a while, and especially as a transfer, it becomes outdated. Beyond the first 50 and maybe 100, it’s all kind of useless anyway.

I think the point you are missing, is if HS scouting didn't mean anything (useless your words) then players that do not get much PT or don't perform or get injured during their freshman year, teams wouldn't know to want them, right?

We wanted Tray Jackson bc they knew the player from HS and can project on that to figure out their potential in a different environment like Seton Hall. Maybe he's a bad example but the coaches took him based off potential seen in HS bc he didn't do anything at Missouri.

How about going way back to Andre Sweet, not much PT at Duke but highly regarded out of HS top 100 kid, we would have never taken him based on his Duke performance where he averaged less than Kadary's avg.

Of course, its not as important after a year or two in college but its certainly not useless.

The Fred Hill line about after rank of 50 they are all the same is an old man's view. Before covid these players were scrutinized, studied, videos, youtube, social media, galore....there were eyes on them constantly. With HS, AAU, camps. there are very few players with high potential in the US that slip between the cracks. Rankings have gotten better since Hill days of being relevant.

Now with Covid, more players willl be ranked a little out of whack, probably in the 2021 and 2022 classes especially. there will be teams that get gems that got lucky and more blue bloods that get way overrated players.

With that said, I think HS rankings and scouting will be back to being a good guide to potential in the 2023 class.

 

[hallstorm]

The Fred Hill line about after rank of 50 they are all the same is an old man's view. Before covid these players were scrutinized, studied, videos, youtube, social media, galore....there were eyes on them constantly. With HS, AAU, camps. there are very few players with high potential in the US that slip between the cracks. Rankings have gotten better since Hill days of being relevant.

I’m not so sure about this part. I think all the major scouts flock to see the top tiered players on the AAU circuit and they see them repeatedly. Then a consensus is built based on all of the major scouts. It’s why you can see a major disparity in the overall 247 composite rankings and then the individual 247 ranking itself—especially when it comes to players around 75-150. I don’t think the scouts really crunch the numbers and get particular about the rankings.

Look no further than tomorrow’s announcement of Armstrong: his 247 rating is like 40th overall, but the composite is around 130.

 

[HallBall02]

I’m not so sure about this part. I think all the major scouts flock to see the top tiered players on the AAU circuit and they see them repeatedly. Then a consensus is built based on all of the major scouts. It’s why you can see a major disparity in the overall 247 composite rankings and then the individual 247 ranking itself—especially when it comes to players around 75-150. I don’t think the scouts really crunch the numbers and get particular about the rankings.

Look no further than tomorrow’s announcement of Armstrong: his 247 rating is like 40th overall, but the composite is around 130.

Agree with Armstrong, 2021 and 2022 rankings are much less reliable, maybe 2023 to some degree will be less too...

 

[lloyde dobler]

What college coaches see in person during the month of July in Vegas is a lot more meaningful than the rank these kids are given by 247

 

[HallBall02]

What college coaches see in person during the month of July in Vegas is a lot more meaningful than the rank these kids are given by 247

What coaches (and scouts) see during the month in Vegas and the AAU circuit is all connected to 247 composite ranks, you can’t separate the two.

You can say well this coach has an eye for talent and keeps it to themselves....well that same high tier coach offers said player and when more good teams want the player, ranking tend to go up. It’s all connected.

 

[Bud Boomer]

Is this our projected starters by best defensive unit by end of year:

PG Richmond (will be a stud on D)
SG Cale
SF Rhoden
PF Yetna (brings more defensive rebounds)
C Obiagu (blocks)

Projected starters by best offensive unit
PG Conway
SG Harris
SF Weston/Powell?
PF Rhoden
C Samuel/Yetna?

We are loaded.

That won’t be our best offensive unit by a long shot.

 

[HallBall02]

That won’t be our best offensive unit by a long shot.

I agree, on the offensive one, just throwing out ideas because its much more difficult to determine.

I'm much more confident on best defensive unit.

What would be your best offensive unit instead just criticizing my post?

 

[Bud Boomer]

Probably the first unit with Harris swapped for Obiagu.

 

[SHUMAN]

Good thing about these #50-100 ranked players is that you typically have them 3-4 years to really buy into and execute the system / team defense / efficient offense. Ideally, you get the stable core group and then sprinkle in a top 30 player every few years to put you over the top.

Who was our last top 50 player? Was this the IW and Delgado class? Guess that means we're due.

Will be interesting to seem who emerges as the team leader this season. Rhoden and Cale have the experience but roster full of good players.

 

[HallBall02]

Probably the first unit with Harris swapped for Obiagu.

"That won't be the best unit by a longshot!"

Does that feel good buddy? Some of you posters are just angry all the time. I put in a little effort for the free board researching rankings, and the first poster says he doesnt care about rankings (okay then move on don't be negative) , then more say its useless and then others jump on. Not thanks for posting it, or hey that's interesting or anything. Saying its useless and don't care about the lifeblood of college sports is crazy to me but at least don't be a jerk.

I throw out projected starters for offensive units, and a poster instead of saying hey I like that defensive lineup but I think there will be better offensive lineup, of this..., instead the poster does a drive by "that won't be the best unit by a longshot", wtf is wrong with some of you people.

You know I don't work here and I go out of my way to put good stuff on this board to share with this community, please just dont be a jerk is all i'm saying.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Probably the first unit with Harris swapped for Obiagu.

Ike’s going to be a double double machine next year once he masters the pick and Ro. Finished the year 10-13 from the free throw line. Watch out he’s just getting started. I’m very high on him improving his game being on campus all year.

 

[Bud Boomer]

"That won't be the best unit by a longshot!"

Does that feel good buddy? Some of you posters are just angry all the time. I put in a little effort for the free board researching rankings, and the first poster says he doesnt care about rankings (okay then move on don't be negative) , then more say its useless and then others jump on. Not thanks for posting it, or hey that's interesting or anything. Saying its useless and don't care about the lifeblood of college sports is crazy to me but at least don't be a jerk.

I throw out projected starters for offensive units, and a poster instead of saying hey I like that defensive lineup but I think there will be better offensive lineup, of this..., instead the poster does a drive by "that won't be the best unit by a longshot", wtf is wrong with some of you people.

You know I don't work here and I go out of my way to put good stuff on this board regularly?

Ok then

 

[Bud Boomer]

Ike’s going to be a double double machine next year once he masters the pick and Ro. Finished the year 10-13 from the free throw line. Watch out he’s just getting started. I’m very high on him improving his game being on campus all year.

Yea I’m actually pretty high on Ike too. He will benefit more than anyone else from Richmond.

 

[HallBall02]

Yea I’m actually pretty high on Ike too. He will benefit more than anyone else from Richmond.

"thats the worst opinion I have ever heard, Ike won't benefit more than anyone else by a longshot"

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

"thats the worst opinion I have ever heard, Ike won't benefit more than anyone else by a longshot"

Ike’s going to benefit most from working with the staff all summer. It won’t matter who is on the court with him.

 

[HallBall02]

Ike’s going to be a double double machine next year once he masters the pick and Ro. Finished the year 10-13 from the free throw line. Watch out he’s just getting started. I’m very high on him improving his game being on campus all year.

I agree, excited by Ike with some guards and wings that can penetrate and dish. Ike just needs stick em on his hands though. if he catches passes cleanly next year he will have tons of easy dunks.

 

[shu09]

Ok then

Is that NYShoreGuy's burner?

 

[HallBall02]

Ike’s going to benefit most from working with the staff all summer. It won’t matter who is on the court with him.

I'm a huge Ike fan. I agree. Was being facetious, giving the poster a little bit of his own knucklehead responses back to him.

 

[TRUE SHU FAN]

Ngandu was quietly rated 3 stars by Rivals, I dont think he had a profile on 247 when he committed and was offered by several top 50 schools including West Virginia which finished the 2019-2020 season at #17

 

[HallBall02]

Lots of good pieces potentially. Hopefully Willard can put it all together.

Ceballoj,

What does Nova's starting lineup look like next year?

How does our team stack up against yours with top 100 and 150 players are on the roster?

 

[HallBall02]

Ngandu was quietly rated 3 stars by Rivals, I dont think he had a profile on 247 when he committed and was offered by several top 50 schools including West Virginia which finished the 2019-2020 season at #17

International recruits like Ngandu are usually all over the map on these sites such as our latest transfer from France that was over 300 ranked HS player but won freshman of year in American conference, two years later.

Going after orangville prep players 2 years ago was very smart by our staff bc many players aren’t scouted as much so can get some gems without as much competiton from top teams.

 

[ceballoj]

Ceballoj,

What does Nova's starting lineup look like next year?

How does our team stack up against yours with top 100 and 150 players are on the roster?

Assuming CG and JS are back, my guess is with hs rankings (247 composite)



Gillespie (200)

Moore (57)

Antoine (17)

Samuels (46)

Dixon (71)



Bench-



Daniels (transfer last year. Unranked)

Slater (53)

Njoku (84)

Pattetson (33)

Longino (50)

Chris Arch (unranked)

Brizzi (125)

 

[Bluebeard]

So in the posts above both Gillespie and Rhoden were ranked 200 coming out of HS. Some player continue to get better in college and others peak in high school.

 

[NYShoreGuy]

So in the posts above both Gillespie and Rhoden were ranked 200 coming out of HS. Some player continue to get better in college and others peak in high school.

Danny green i believe only player from hs grad class still in nba...go check out the top 20 that year, i dare you

 

[cernjSHU]

Ike’s going to be a double double machine next year once he masters the pick and Ro. Finished the year 10-13 from the free throw line. Watch out he’s just getting started. I’m very high on him improving his game being on campus all year.

Ike does not have the foot work and you won’t see that pick and roll with him much. What you hope to see is something more basic and something that suits him. He needs to learn the drop step. Add in a little baby hook, and that’s what you need and should teaching Ike.

 

[cernjSHU]

Is this our projected starters by best defensive unit by end of year:

PG Richmond (will be a stud on D)
SG Cale
SF Rhoden
PF Yetna (brings more defensive rebounds)
C Obiagu (blocks)

Projected starters by best offensive unit
PG Conway
SG Harris
SF Weston/Powell?
PF Rhoden
C Samuel/Yetna?

We are loaded.

Starting lineup would be this:
PG Richmond
2G Harris
SF Rhoden
PF Yetna
C Ike

But the lineup they may end up with most minutes is:
PG Richmond
2G Harris
SF Weston
PF Rhoden
C Ike

I am going to love seeing Conway, Cale, Samuel coming off the bench. The wildcard is what Jackson gives you.

 

[HallBall02]

Starting lineup would be this:
PG Richmond
2G Harris
SF Rhoden
PF Yetna
C Ike

But the lineup they may end up with most minutes is:
PG Richmond
2G Harris
SF Weston
PF Rhoden
C Ike

I am going to love seeing Conway, Cale, Samuel coming off the bench. The wildcard is what Jackson gives you.

The more I watch yetna the more I think it will be hard to get him off the floor. Weston coming off injury and being a freshman with a limited senior season, I don’t think he will make as much as an immediate impact.

Yetna had an injury too but next year will be two years removed from it so I see him getting even better and get back into form from his freshman year numbers at USF. I saw on 2017 video that he has a 7-1 wingspan, must be why he is so good at rebounding, that and constant hustle.

 

[sami]

"That won't be the best unit by a longshot!"

Does that feel good buddy? Some of you posters are just angry all the time. I put in a little effort for the free board researching rankings, and the first poster says he doesnt care about rankings (okay then move on don't be negative) , then more say its useless and then others jump on. Not thanks for posting it, or hey that's interesting or anything. Saying its useless and don't care about the lifeblood of college sports is crazy to me but at least don't be a jerk.

pot meet kettle

you get into lengthy heated exchanges with every poster who doesn’t agree with you to the letter. Lol, you did it with 3 different posters on this thread attributing one statement to a second.

 

[Piratz]

HS ranking doesn't matter the day they step onto a college campus. Yet most fans cannot get that ranking out of their minds. It's like a Scarlet Letter of sorts; brands them for life.

Similar to NFL Draft. Nobody can ever get passed where a player was drafted.

 

[hallgrad80]

When it comes to the ranking placed on HS players I agree that there are numerous examples where players not ranked in the top 150 have gone on to have outstanding college basketball careers and players ranked in the top 150 are flops in college. . At the same time Nova has become the gold standard for excellence in the BE and its roster is made up primarily of top 100 players. In college football look at its most successful programs and you find schools like Bama, Clemson, Michigan , Ohio State and others have consistently had the top ranked recruiting classes made up of the top HS football players and are serious contenders to win a national championship every year. A players ranking is nothing more then a grade assigned to a player by third parties and it’s up to each program‘s staff to evaluate the player and make a decision if he has the talent to succeed in college and his ranking should have little value in their evaluation. All those four and five star rankings do serve a purpose and that is that it draws coaches to see the player and to draw their own conclusion whether the ranking is justified or not .