Seton Hall Ranked 315 out of 500

[gapgmoney]

Friday September 18, 2020 Wall Street Journal Report College Rankings

wsj.com/collegerankings (see here for full list)
Http://on.wsj.com/collerankingmethodology (methodology of ranking)


Number 7 Princeton
Number 147 Rutgers University New Brunswick
Number 174 Stevens Institute of Technology
Number 193 New Jersey Institute of Technology
Number 235 Rutgers University Newark
Number 262 Drew University
Number 262 (tie) The College of New Jersey
Number 264 Rutgers University Camdem
Number 306 Rider University
Number 315 Seton Hall University

Number 104 University of Connecticut (Highest Ranked Big East School)
Number 127 Villanova

 

[Abbo71]

Friday September 18, 2020 Wall Street Journal Report College Rankings

wsj.com/collegerankings (see here for full list)
Http://on.wsj.com/collerankingmethodology (methodology of ranking)


Number 7 Princeton
Number 147 Rutgers University New Brunswick
Number 174 Stevens Institute of Technology
Number 193 New Jersey Institute of Technology
Number 235 Rutgers University Newark
Number 262 Drew University
Number 262 (tie) The College of New Jersey
Number 264 Rutgers University Camdem
Number 306 Rider University
Number 315 Seton Hall University

Number 104 University of Connecticut (Highest Ranked Big East School)
Number 127 Villanova

What a joke

 

[SHUisNJsTeam]

Our rankings need to greatly improve. Like him or not, Dr. Esteban had us moving up in the rankings. When he was here the goal was to get to top 75 and top 5 Catholic in the US News rankings. We were at 118 at one point consistently moving up 6 or 7 years in a row. Now we’re languishing in the 130’s. Our incoming classes have consistently improved so what’s the problem? We need to do better, much better.

 

[SHUSA]

What a joke

its not a joke. its probably accurate. maybe not that far down but generally shu was in need of a huge wake up call over 10 years ago.

 

[Abbo71]

its not a joke. its probably accurate. maybe not that far down but generally that shu was in need of a huge wake up call over 10 years ago.

To me it's hard to believe we're that far down. I'll need to see more rankings.

 

[SHUSA]

To me it's hard to believe we're that far down. I'll need to see more rankings.

Wall Street Journal is pretty legit, i would think . US news has us at 133 which is a bit more settling than wsj. Niche.com has us at 293

those are the 3 top results on google for college rankings

 

[TrueBlue1989]

Our rankings need to greatly improve. Like him or not, Dr. Esteban had us moving up in the rankings. When he was here the goal was to get to top 75 and top 5 Catholic in the US News rankings. We were at 118 at one point consistently moving up 6 or 7 years in a row. Now we’re languishing in the 130’s. Our incoming classes have consistently improved so what’s the problem? We need to do better, much better.

Esteban was a self promoter. 75 was a joke appealing to his and our alumni egos. He raised zero dollars and that is job number 1 for a President. My goal is to get Seton Hall ranked above Princeton. I’m a genius and great leader!

 

[MBF72]

The low rating as well as those we trail are discouraging.
Are we the lowest ranked BE school?

 

[SHUisNJsTeam]

Esteban was a self promoter. 75 was a joke appealing to his and our alumni egos. He raised zero dollars and that is job number 1 for a President. My goal is to get Seton Hall ranked above Princeton. I’m a genius and great leader!

Maybe he was, maybe he wasn’t, I don’t know the guy personally but you have to admit the rankings were steadily moving upward. Why the 20 point tumble after he left? Esteban couldn’t set the original goal of top 100/top 10 and then raise it to top 75/top 5 without others buying in and signing on. There is absolutely no reason why either of those goals could not be met unless those currently in place are happy with status quo, it certainly makes it easier for them because they are where they want to be instead of working hard to get where they should be. Why the hell are people so afraid of success!?

As for the fundraising, why is no one held accountable? We haven’t had a capital campaign since Sheeran was President and that was disaster! Who oversees the person in charge of advancement? If the advancement guy isn’t doing his job then he needs to be replaced. If the guy overseeing the advancement guy isn’t doing his job then he needs to be replaced. At some point I would think/hope the Board of Regents would step in and demand things change.

With Esteban I always thought that with all the stuff he did without asking for any money that it would be very easy for him to take that next step and start a campaign but just when I thought that should/could have happened he left for DePaul. Still no fundraising and the medical school plans that everyone also agreed to all went down the tubes along with our ranking.

Dr. Nyre has been great so far but he was barely here and the pandemic hit. The new Advancement guy sounds really promising and a like a huge improvement over what we’ve had in the past so hopefully it works out. Hopefully they aren’t afraid of success like others seemingly are and hopefully they want to raise Seton Hall to heights never before seen instead of settling for whatever they have at the moment.

 

[mikewalsh]

All that matters is how your graduates perform after graduation, I believe that Seton Hall has a very good value/cost. These rankings tend to be subjective.

 

[shu99]

Friday September 18, 2020 Wall Street Journal Report College Rankings

wsj.com/collegerankings (see here for full list)
Http://on.wsj.com/collerankingmethodology (methodology of ranking)


Number 7 Princeton
Number 147 Rutgers University New Brunswick
Number 174 Stevens Institute of Technology
Number 193 New Jersey Institute of Technology
Number 235 Rutgers University Newark
Number 262 Drew University
Number 262 (tie) The College of New Jersey
Number 264 Rutgers University Camdem
Number 306 Rider University
Number 315 Seton Hall University

Number 104 University of Connecticut (Highest Ranked Big East School)
Number 127 Villanova

I'd be interested to see the methodology for this ranking as none of the schools are where I would expect. Rutgers is top 60, as is Nova. Stevens usually in the 70/80 range and rider and drew are generally not ranked in national rankings.

 

[seton1996]

We were 133 in US News results last week.

N.J. has 9 of America’s best colleges, new ranking says

The annual list puts more emphasis on affordability this year.

www.nj.com

https://www.nj.com/education/2020/09/nj-has-9-of-americas-best-colleges-new-ranking-says.html

 

[P1RAT3]

Maybe someone could enlighten me, I never understood these college rankings? Are they just based on Alumni income or something?

I have a real hard time believing whoever puts these lists together went to all these schools and fully understands what each school offers in terms of facilities, opportunities, culture, quality of professors (not just in but also out of the classroom), what a class is like, growth of students from freshman year to senior year, and many other aspects that impact how good a school really is.



Playing devils advocate a bit here just for some food for thought -

Are the Ivy League Schools really the best schools or are they just starting with the best students?
Eample: if you are ranking students 1-100 and your typical harvard freshman is a 91 and graduates as a 97, is harvard really a better school than another university who may bring in a 72 freshman who graduates as an 89?

 

[mbraue]

Friday September 18, 2020 Wall Street Journal Report College Rankings

wsj.com/collegerankings (see here for full list)
Http://on.wsj.com/collerankingmethodology (methodology of ranking)


Number 7 Princeton
Number 147 Rutgers University New Brunswick
Number 174 Stevens Institute of Technology
Number 193 New Jersey Institute of Technology
Number 235 Rutgers University Newark
Number 262 Drew University
Number 262 (tie) The College of New Jersey
Number 264 Rutgers University Camdem
Number 306 Rider University
Number 315 Seton Hall University

Number 104 University of Connecticut (Highest Ranked Big East School)
Number 127 Villanova

Seton Hall University's ranking in the 2021 edition of Best Colleges is National Universities, #133. Its tuition and fees are $45,290.

 

[SHUSource]

Wall Street Journal is pretty legit, i would think . US news has us at 133 which is a bit more settling than wsj. Niche.com has us at 293

U.S. News & World Report segment their rankings differently, so it's kind of an apples-to-oranges comparison. They rank top regional colleges and universities as well as top liberal arts colleges, whereas WSJ lumps them all together. So you get Amherst and Williams at 20 and 21 on the WSJ rankings, for instance, whereas they don't even appear in the top national university rankings that have Seton Hall at 133. So in addition to using a different methodology, the WSJ rankings are able to pile in superior institutions of various types that push us further and further down the list.

I could be wrong, but I think 133 represents a drop of some 15-20 points over the past couple years, no? I thought we were around 115 a couple years ago. This is nothing to crow about.

 

[shu99]

U.S. News & World Report segment their rankings differently, so it's kind of an apples-to-oranges comparison. They rank top regional colleges and universities as well as top liberal arts colleges, whereas WSJ lumps them all together. So you get Amherst and Williams at 20 and 21 on the WSJ rankings, for instance, whereas they don't even appear in the top national university rankings that have Seton Hall at 133. So in addition to using a different methodology, the WSJ rankings are able to pile in superior institutions of various types that push us further and further down the list.

I could be wrong, but I think 133 represents a drop of some 15-20 points over the past couple years, no? I thought we were around 115 a couple years ago. This is nothing to crow about.

I dont think anything has really changed in terms of the profile of students that are enrolling (SAT/gpa) so the drop from 115 to 133 is likely due to other schools improving and jumping over us, combined with some of the metrics that we have poor showing in (such as alumni giving and admit rates).

 

[The Crows Nest]

The low rating as well as those we trail are discouraging.
Are we the lowest ranked BE school?

St John's was ranked lower....

 

[SHUisNJsTeam]

A 20 point drop is inexcusable (which I stated above) but there is at least one person in this thread that seems to think that this is just fine and why should we aspire to anything better and raising our profile? I just do not understand how some people here are just so damn afraid of success and raising the bar!

 

[Hallsome]

Maybe someone could enlighten me, I never understood these college rankings? Are they just based on Alumni income or something?

I have a real hard time believing whoever puts these lists together went to all these schools and fully understands what each school offers in terms of facilities, opportunities, culture, quality of professors (not just in but also out of the classroom), what a class is like, growth of students from freshman year to senior year, and many other aspects that impact how good a school really is.



Playing devils advocate a bit here just for some food for thought -

Are the Ivy League Schools really the best schools or are they just starting with the best students?
Eample: if you are ranking students 1-100 and your typical harvard freshman is a 91 and graduates as a 97, is harvard really a better school than another university who may bring in a 72 freshman who graduates as an 89?

The rankings are make believe

 

[SHUisNJsTeam]

St John's was ranked lower....

They always are. Villanova was ranked among the regional schools until the past 2-3 years when they made the jump to the national schools. When they moved up to the national rankings they came in way ahead of us and we’ve always been among the national schools. I think Nova is and has been among the top 50. So what the hell is our problem!? No reason why we should not be ranked similarly.

 

[lloyde dobler]

Honest question: Is one of the things holding back Seton Hall’s ranking the school’s mission itself? What is it more of - and more of by design - to be a Diocesan school of opportunity catering to people like first-generation college students (see the remarks from Bob Ley regarding his commencement speech on the Trove) or is it to be a religious order-sponsored school like Villanova, Georgetown or Providence that sets out to be elite by nature, often at the expense of the first-generation students. Again, I don’t know the answer. Maybe the better question is does Seton Hall itself know the answer of what it wants to be?

 

[SHUSA]

haha funny the wikipedia page for shu jas us as a private AND a sea grant university... sea grant? thats gotta be wrong

 

[HallX2]

Friday September 18, 2020 Wall Street Journal Report College Rankings

wsj.com/collegerankings (see here for full list)
Http://on.wsj.com/collerankingmethodology (methodology of ranking)


Number 7 Princeton
Number 147 Rutgers University New Brunswick
Number 174 Stevens Institute of Technology
Number 193 New Jersey Institute of Technology
Number 235 Rutgers University Newark
Number 262 Drew University
Number 262 (tie) The College of New Jersey
Number 264 Rutgers University Camdem
Number 306 Rider University
Number 315 Seton Hall University

Number 104 University of Connecticut (Highest Ranked Big East School)
Number 127 Villanova

Disappointing but Rider being ahead of us calls the entire process into question. Rider is literally on financial life support.

 

[SHUisNJsTeam]

Disappointing but Rider being ahead of us calls the entire process into question. Rider is literally on financial life support.

Drew is as well, aren’t they?

 

[SHUSource]

Honest question: Is one of the things holding back Seton Hall’s ranking the school’s mission itself? What is it more of - and more of by design - to be a Diocesan school of opportunity catering to people like first-generation college students (see the remarks from Bob Ley regarding his commencement speech on the Trove) or is it to be a religious order-sponsored school like Villanova, Georgetown or Providence that sets out to be elite by nature, often at the expense of the first-generation students. Again, I don’t know the answer. Maybe the better question is does Seton Hall itself know the answer of what it wants to be?

This is a good point, and whenever people have criticized our admit rate (which is rather generous), I do always point out that it is an archdiocesan-run institution with a responsibility to be a resource to the people of its footprint. That doesn't mean we don't aspire to excellence, but it does mean providing opportunities for many families to send their first member to college. And that's important, especially when that opportunity means that those kids have access to a pretty damn good university.

We're never going to be elite (or elitist) and to lloyde's point, I don't think that is the purpose of Seton Hall. Just the same, I've never been anything but proud to wear the shirts and hats or put that sticker on my car.

 

[Halldan1]

 

[SHUisNJsTeam]

This is a good point, and whenever people have criticized our admit rate (which is rather generous), I do always point out that it is an archdiocesan-run institution with a responsibility to be a resource to the people of its footprint. That doesn't mean we don't aspire to excellence, but it does mean providing opportunities for many families to send their first member to college. And that's important, especially when that opportunity means that those kids have access to a pretty damn good university.

We're never going to be elite (or elitist) and to lloyde's point, I don't think that is the purpose of Seton Hall. Just the same, I've never been anything but proud to wear the shirts and hats or put that sticker on my car.

Access to me means more on the affordability side of the aisle, making scholarships and financial aid available. You shouldn’t be admitting anyone who can’t do the work or keep up academically. Just because you are financially poor doesn’t mean you get to skate by one the academic side. Poor academics drags everyone down. You don’t tank your rankings because you feel bad for someone who can’t make the grade.

 

[TrueBlue1989]

Rider and Drew are struggling. Admissions standards much higher at SHU.

 

[Hallsome]

This is a good point, and whenever people have criticized our admit rate (which is rather generous), I do always point out that it is an archdiocesan-run institution with a responsibility to be a resource to the people of its footprint. That doesn't mean we don't aspire to excellence, but it does mean providing opportunities for many families to send their first member to college. And that's important, especially when that opportunity means that those kids have access to a pretty damn good university.

We're never going to be elite (or elitist) and to lloyde's point, I don't think that is the purpose of Seton Hall. Just the same, I've never been anything but proud to wear the shirts and hats or put that sticker on my car.

Well said is an understatement.

 

[SHUSource]

Access to me means more on the affordability side of the aisle, making scholarships and financial aid available. You shouldn’t be admitting anyone who can’t do the work or keep up academically. Just because you are financially poor doesn’t mean you get to skate by one the academic side. Poor academics drags everyone down. You don’t tank your rankings because you feel bad for someone who can’t make the grade.

That's not what I'm talking about by saying this. Our student ranks are filled with all sorts of kids from all kinds of socioeconomic backgrounds who benefit from our enrollment management policy, and often, it's kids from more privileged backgrounds who benefit the most. Building a class is a weird science, a sliding scale of so many factors, and one of those is the ability to pay full freight. Seton Hall has plenty of kids who are in not because of their distinguished academic records but because their parents have the ability to pay full tuition, which allows the school to discount it for kids who come from less well-off situations but who have the chops to do well - good students who fit out sweet spot, ones who aren't Ivy caliber and don't receive financial aid packages from some of your finer schools that allow them to afford to enroll, but who have a class rank that makes them appealing to Seton Hall and it's own admissions goals (i.e. Kids from the top 25 percent of their class, but not top 5 percent, who would go to much more prestigious school).

There are also kids who come from school districts that aren't good and place even invested kids are some inherent disadvantages. So you see kids with very good grades but who underperform on the SAT. This is becoming less of a factor as even top schools are abandoning SATs and ACTs as an admissions metric since they realize that there are cultural and socioeconomic biases to these (I used to resist this idea too, but eventually came around to the incontrovertible proof). So, traditionally, those are also kids with high potential who would've been shut out of top schools. They found success at Seton Hall.

The magic is really in the academic support program you have in place to help kids succeed (and stay enrolled) once they are enrolled because both the rich kid who is in thanks to his parents' ability to pay full tuition and the one from the socioeconomic margins who can just about make it work given enough financial aid do the university no good if they can't stay enrolled. And I think Seton Hall excels in this way, thanks in part to its focus on its purpose, an understanding of its place in the world, and its small size which keeps students as actual people with names and faces rather than the cast of a "Where's Waldo?" picture, faceless drones filing in and out of huge lecture halls.