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Should there even be a debate?

Halldan1

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Jan 1, 2003
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Aaron Judge’s MVP case should not even be a debate​

By Jon Heyman

MILWAUKEE — This MVP debate is getting a little wacky. It may be the most heated argument ever, at least among arguments that ended weeks ago. Or should have.

Angels interim manager Phil Nevin says he loves Aaron Judge like a son but picks Shohei Ohtani for MVP. Hopefully, Judge’s father has a clearer mind and stronger family values.

Judge hit two more home runs Sunday — one an opposite-field, upper-deck job, the other up near Bernie’s Chalet in left — and now has 59 homers in a season like no one’s ever had before and is almost sure to break Roger Maris’ American League record of 61 homers. But I really can’t blame Nevin. Considering the Angels are worse under him than Joe Maddon, it wouldn’t be wise from a job-security standpoint to pick the other guy. A son, even an imagined one, can’t get revenge. But an employer certainly can.

The MVP discussion is getting crazy on the internet. I was called everything from a meanie to a typical New Yorker (that may be the same thing, not sure) after my column Friday correctly stating there’s West Coast bias in the voting. Let me go over this once more. If there’s East Coast bias, how to explain the Angels winning four MVP awards in a decade without winning a playoff game? The Yankees are almost the opposite: five rings since 1996, two MVP awards.

Almost no one not currently employed by the Angels or living in Orange County, Calif. actually believes someone other than Judge could be MVP. Roger Lodge, the former “Blind Date” guy who has a nice Angels-centric talk show in the OC, tweeted Ohtani should win. And now comes Nevin, the former Yankees coach who’d become former Angels manager if he took up the case for Judge. There are a few others spouting strange logic.

The odds boards now put Judge at 1-200 to win. But from an odds standpoint, this is like betting on Secretariat in a maiden claiming race. Here’s one time I’d risk a lot for a little.

Aaron Boone, as unbiased as Nevin, called Judge’s year “a season for the ages.” But Boone doesn’t need to stump for Judge. One, Boone’s job isn’t in jeopardy (sorry to the blood-thirsty Yankee fans among you). And two, it’s obvious Judge will win.

“I understand there’s going to be a storyline over the next couple weeks who deserves MVP,” Anthony Rizzo said, “This hasn’t been done in this era, someone chasing 61 [homers] clean like this and really no question marks about what’s going on in the game. It’s really impressive.

“I know there’s a debate about Ohtani. But it’s [Judge’s] season. It’s his special season.”

Judge’s season, already not to be believed, gets better by the day. He smoked No. 58 off Brewers starter Jason Alexander (his real name, not that there’s anything wrong with it) and No. 59 off reliever Luis Perdomo, putting Babe Ruth’s biggest season within a swing of striking distance, assuming pitchers dare to keep pitching to him. The awards, the chase, “it’s all noise,” to Judge. “If it happens at home, that’ll be great. But we will talk about it when it happens.”

Umpire Gabe Morales threw out a specially marked ball for history before Judge’s final at-bat — Judge is so focused he said he didn’t even notice — but alas, he only lined a double to left, giving him a four-hit day and raising his average to .316, one point behind AL leader Luis Arraez for the batting title and Triple Crown. Thanks to Judge, the first-place Yankees’ hung on to a series-salvaging 12-8 win Sunday in a matchup of the journeyman Alexander versus. ace Gerrit Cole, who now leads the AL with 29 homers allowed. (Side note: I’d like to see the Yankees try to make the fancy argument Judge is worth less than Cole, who got $324 million.)

In terms of value in 2022, there’s no way to say anyone affected the race like Judge, leading MLB in runs, RBIs, one-base percentage, slugging percentage, OPS and total bases and almost single-handedly propping the Yankees up while everyone around him is aching, ailing or hoping to return soon. The Yankees are six games under since the break while Judge is putting together a fantasy half.

He was MVP front-runner in the first half when he had a .983 OPS. Since the break, it’s higher than 1.300, which truly is unreal. While he hasn’t tried pitching, his Fangraphs WAR is about to hit 10 off this game, which would put him with Mike Trout and Mookie Betts as the only active players to reach that height.

Ohtani is incredible and obviously doing two things exceptionally well but his WAR is about 10 percent lower than Judge’s. Ohtani also hasn’t affected the standings as the Angels have been out of it since June. So to recap: Ohtani is less good this year, and much less valuable.

No bias here. But if Judge gets fewer than 28 votes — all but the presumed two coming out of Angels central — something is wrong.
 
Ohtani is a remarkable player with a unique skill set we haven’t seen in close to 100 years, arguably haven’t seen ever. I would love to see him in pinstripes someday. But if Judge isn’t MVP it’d be a crime. The one thing that worries me is that anti Yankees sentiment is so strong and a real thing. Let’s pray that doesn’t happen here.
 
Some voters still vote their biases,but Judge so outstanding this year the majority will vote for him.
 
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He's a shoe in but probably not unanimous due to anti Yankee (NY) hatred.

A shame because Judge is probably what every athlete should be all about. Quiet, humble and a superstar.
 
ohtani has such a different distinction that i think he should always be in the mvp convo
 
I'm surprised there's even a debate. Judge is likely going to break the AL single-season home run record and there's a possibility he might be only the second player to win the hitter's triple crown since 1967.

And, really, if we're even going to entertain this notion, the player we should be arguing about is Yordan Alvarez of Houston.

With all due respect to Shohei Ohtani, his team is 64-82. To paraphrase a line Branch Rickey once used discussing a contract with Ralph Kiner, they could have done that without him.
 
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That's been my beef for as long as I can remember. The distinction between an POY and an MVP.

No player on a team with a losing record should ever be considered an MVP. No matter what his stats are.

POY? Yes, of course, that's a different story.

Regarding Ohtani. He is a unique player. But for him to be considered an MVP he has to play on a winner.

For him to be considered a player of the year he still has to excel. And excel at both positions unless his stats are so good at one spot and very good at the other.

40 homeruns, 110 RBI's batting .300 are POY stats. But if he has an era of 5.00 and is 5-13 then no those stats nullify his offensive stats.
 
Is Judge playing for a winner since the All Star break?

I cant not vote for the guy I think is most valuable just cause he plays for a bad team.

But for me, Judge, YES without a doubt. Judge is MVP.
 
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He's a shoe in but probably not unanimous due to anti Yankee (NY) hatred.

A shame because Judge is probably what every athlete should be all about. Quiet, humble and a superstar.
Sounds familiar, like Jeter not getting the unanimous Hall vote.

…and can’t forget one of my all time favorite Yankees, the great Hideki Matsui getting screwed out of the ROY by those disgraceful writers who voted for the legendary Angel Barroa instead.
 
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The writers always find an excuse not to give it to a Yankee. I still can't believe Altuve won it over Judge a few years back.
 
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It's interesting how sharply opinions here have changed from last with with the Otahni vs deGrom debate. It's exactly the same debate of the guy who's very on both sides of the ball vs the guy who only plays one side but is elite at it. Of course there was no hardware on the line that time, but still interesting that the board heavily favored Ohtani last time and is decidedly against him this time.
 
Otahni is amazing player because he's an all star pitcher and hitter. However, Judge is having an epic season with the closest homerun hitter being 20 behind him, not to mention also leading the majors in RBIs. Gotta go with Judge on this one.
 
The Yankees would not be in first place without Judge. The Angels would still suck with or without Ohtani. Easy decision, Judge should be the runaway MVP.
 
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Don't forget Louisiana Lightning with one of the best years ever recorded by a pitcher 25-3with a 1.74 era getting screwed out of the MVP as well.

...and Mattingly getting screwed with anti Yankee voters stealing his MVP in 86 and giving it to pitcher Roger Roid Clemens.

Don's numbers were staggering. Besides being the best fielding first baseman in base ball he led the league with 238 hits, 53 doubles, batting .352 with 31 home runs and 113 rbi's.

Yankee fans have a good reason to worry given the blatant anti Yankee bias throughout history.
 
Don't forget Louisiana Lightning with one of the best years ever recorded by a pitcher 25-3with a 1.74 era getting screwed out of the MVP as well.

...and Mattingly getting screwed with anti Yankee voters stealing his MVP in 86 and giving it to pitcher Roger Roid Clemens.

Don's numbers were staggering. Besides being the best fielding first baseman in base ball he led the league with 238 hits, 53 doubles, batting .352 with 31 home runs and 113 rbi's.

Yankee fans have a good reason to worry given the blatant anti Yankee bias throughout history.
Yup! They didn't give the MVP to Guidry because a pitcher has the Cy Young award. Then they turn around and give the MVP to Clemens over Mattingly. You can't make this stuff up.
 
Jim Rice had an epic season in 1978 .315/.370/.600/.970 with 46 HR and 139 RBI for a team that tied for the division. Yes, I know they tied with the Yankees but that's where the everyday was every five days argument starts to come into play.

Mattingly in 1986 .352/.394/.573/.967 with 31 HR and 113 RBI for a team that finished second. Those numbers were worse in some respects than the previous year when he won the MVP. That probably mattered to a degree.

BTW, the guy who got screwed out of an MVP was Dwight Gooden in 1985. 24-4 1.53 ERA 268K in 276.2 IP and he finished fourth behind Willie McGee, Dave Parker and Pedro Guerrero. Again, the Cardinals won the NL East that year.
 
I'm a big Angel fan but I agree Judge should get the award this year . I disagree that the award should go to a player on a winning team . As many are aware Ernie Banks twice won the MVP trophy while playing for the losing Cubs .
 
Don's numbers were staggering. Besides being the best fielding first baseman in base ball he led the league with 238 hits, 53 doubles, batting .352 with 31 home runs and 113 rbi's.
Respectfully disagree. Mattingly, an outstanding defender, wasn't even the best fielding first baseman in NY during that era.

That was Keith Hernandez, the best defensive first baseman who ever played the game.
 
I'm a big Angel fan but I agree Judge should get the award this year . I disagree that the award should go to a player on a winning team . As many are aware Ernie Banks twice won the MVP trophy while playing for the losing Cubs .
That's because the award is not really an MVP award despite its name. It clearly is an POY award.
 
Yup! They didn't give the MVP to Guidry because a pitcher has the Cy Young award. Then they turn around and give the MVP to Clemens over Mattingly. You can't make this stuff up.
But Vida Blue won the MVP in 1971 for the A’s as a pitcher.

They gave out MVP’s to pitchers before Clemens. The writers felt Rice was dominant
 
Don't forget Louisiana Lightning with one of the best years ever recorded by a pitcher 25-3with a 1.74 era getting screwed out of the MVP as well.

...and Mattingly getting screwed with anti Yankee voters stealing his MVP in 86 and giving it to pitcher Roger Roid Clemens.

Don's numbers were staggering. Besides being the best fielding first baseman in base ball he led the league with 238 hits, 53 doubles, batting .352 with 31 home runs and 113 rbi's.

Yankee fans have a good reason to worry given the blatant anti Yankee bias throughout history.
Using the same logic as mentioned above, in 1986, the Yankee's would have missed the playoffs without Mattingly too.
 
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But Vida Blue won the MVP in 1971 for the A’s as a pitcher.

They gave out MVP’s to pitchers before Clemens. The writers felt Rice was dominant
Agreed, but that was the excuse the writers gave at the time. Also, the MVP should be given to a player who plays every day was another excuse. Those excuses, however, were ignored when they gave it to Clemmens over Mattingly. That's my point. Guidry was also dominent that year.
 
Of all the examples being given here of years that pitchers who should have won the MVP, Jim Rice in 1978 had, by far, the best offensive season of any hitter. As dominant as Guidry was in 1978, Rice was as a hitter.

Mattingly in 1986 had a solid argument but his numbers were down from 1985 and he lost to a guy whose team won the division. Likewise Gooden in 1985 lost out to Willie McGee, a Cardinal among others.

Vida Blue won in 1971 because nobody stood out offensively. So much so that six pitchers finished in the top 20 of the MVP voting that year.

 
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