so we are in sole position of 3rd, having jumped over providence today and have kenpom ranking of 30. Oh yeah, we beat providence too. I can't imagine how they stay ranked and we don't. I realize rankings don't mean much right now for us, and these kids have the right attitude of focusing n the next game, but I feel like we deserve to jump over providence in the public eye.
SHU resume
- Thread starter SHUmash90
- Start date
Providence has been overrated all year long. Their offense is not good at all. You'd think the "best point guard in the nation" would be in charge of a great offensive unit but that hasn't been the case. He's a really good player but the hype about him has been a little ridiculous. It has carried over into the media ranking that team much higher than it should be. Providence is safe for now, but I see the Friars continuing to slide as the regular season winds down. They have a nice resume (specifically road wins) but they're regressing to the mean.
Dunn is the best player in the nation behind Simmons. However, his supporting cast is extremely weak besides Bentil.
They beat Villanova on Nova's home court and played a much tougher out of conference schedule than we did. They were weakened tremendously when Fazekas developed Mono. Since then he has lost his sharpness from outside. Now the Bentil injury is hurting them.
I agree with you that the supporting cast around Bentil and Dunn isn't as strong as it could be. But that is a very good team.
They beat Nova at Wells Fargo Center the morning after a huge snow storm that contributed to a crowd of 6K in a 20K building.
Beating Nova is a huge accomplishment in any building but context is important too.
Beating Nova is a huge accomplishment in any building but context is important too.
Providence's ranking was always way high, iMO. That doesn't mean they're not a good team or worthy of ranking, just theirs was high. They do have some really outstanding wins against Villanova and Arizona, but have now also lost to DePaul and Marquette in conference. I don't think they'll go from #11 to out though, but they'll drop tremendously.
I think we may get in this week.
But what's most important is we're playing so well we're pushing ourselves off the Bubble into firmly in.
I think we may get in this week.
But what's most important is we're playing so well we're pushing ourselves off the Bubble into firmly in.
right now shu safely in, pc needs to grab hold of their conf win-loss or things can be messy for them
shu can really capitalize on the rest of the month, obviously games will be dog fights but no reason to think winning out the month is that unreasonable considering who there is to play and where you play them, shu just beat gtown with iw and kc going 5-25 and desi not being on the court for much of any significance; seemed very composed last night, crashed offensive glass, big defensive imprint led by dg
With as well as we're playing now, anything is possible. I'd probably sign today for a 4-3 finish and 21-9, 11-7 heading into the BET, but we could do better if we continue to play like this.
Remaining schedule with KP rankings:
Home Wed Feb 10 40 Butler
Away Wed Feb 17 61 Georgetown
Away (MSG) Sun Feb 21 252 St. John's
Home Thu Feb 25 51 Providence
Home Sun Feb 28 18 Xavier
Away Wed Mar 2 40 Butler
Away Sat Mar 5 156 DePaul
i said going into the league season that the two st john's games and the games sandwiched inside of them would be the key stretch, right now 4-0 and yes there is parity as always but this is a great 7 game stretch to close out the regular season on with what is remaining home and road
I know everyone just wants to hear Seton Hall announced on Selection Sunday. This team has the potential to get a really good seed. I would love see us work our way up to around a 6 seed, but there's a lot of work to do in order to get there. So while our resume is good enough to get in, hopefully they keep building to a good seed.
I just want to be able to turn on the Selection Show, knowing that SHU is already in the Tournament.
Wouldn't that be a nice change of pace?
Wouldn't that be a nice change of pace?
I think a 6 seed is a reasonable stretch goal, the way they've been playing. Figure that equates to about a ranking in the 21-24 range which is probably where we belong.
That would be phenomenal. Especially after enjoying the week at MSG.
We would be in as an 8 or 9 seed if selection Sunday was today. Unfortunately, the selections are not today. Love our chances but team has work to do still. No letting up. This team can move up to a 6 or not make it all. My thoughts are they will get in easily the way they are playing. 6 or 7 seed would be my guess. Go pirates!
I do too. They have some tough losses, but I love their talent. Unlike GU who also has good talent, they seem primed to close it out strong.
Starting on Thursday.
Sat Nov 14 The Citadel W, 144-71 Home 1-0
Thu Nov 19 Missouri St. W, 93-59 Neutral 2-0
Fri Nov 20 Temple W, 74-69 Neutral 3-0
Sun Nov 22 Miami FL L, 85-75 Neutral 3-1
Sat Nov 28 SIU Edwardsville W, 89-73 Home 4-1
Wed Dec 2 Cincinnati W, 78-76 Away 5-1
Sat Dec 5 Indiana St. W, 85-71 Home 6-1
Mon Dec 7 VMI W, 93-66 Home 7-1
Sat Dec 12 Tennessee W, 94-86 Home 8-1
Sat Dec 19 Purdue W, 74-68 Neutral 9-1
Tue Dec 22 Southern Utah W, 88-52 Home 10-1
Mon Dec 28 IUPUI W, 92-54 Home 11-1
Thu Dec 31 Providence L, 81-73 Home 11-2 0-1
Sat Jan 2 Xavier L, 88-69 Away 11-3 0-2
Tue Jan 5 DePaul W, 77-72 Away 12-3 1-2
Sun Jan 10 Villanova L, 60-55 Home 12-4 1-3
Sat Jan 16 St. John's W, 78-58 Home 13-4 2-3
Tue Jan 19 Providence L, 71-68 Away 13-5 2-4
Sat Jan 23 Creighton L, 72-64 Away 13-6 2-5
Wed Jan 27 DePaul W, 67-53 Home 14-6 3-5
Sat Jan 30 Marquette L, 75-69 Away 14-7 3-6
Tue Feb 2 Georgetown W, 87-76 Home 15-7 4-6
Sat Feb 6 St. John's W, 89-56 Away 16-7 5-6
A lot can change in the AP poles this week. If voters paying attention we should get serious consideration. Note the following this week-
Top 25 teams losing to unranked teams - Wichita st, Indiana , unc, Oklahoma, Texas am, Kentucky, SC, providence, smu, Baylor.
" other receiving votes" losing this week - St Mary , Utah, vcu, Michigan ( drops 2), Pitt, Florida.
A lot of opportunity for us.
Top 25 teams losing to unranked teams - Wichita st, Indiana , unc, Oklahoma, Texas am, Kentucky, SC, providence, smu, Baylor.
" other receiving votes" losing this week - St Mary , Utah, vcu, Michigan ( drops 2), Pitt, Florida.
A lot of opportunity for us.
Right now I am looking at short term goals , if that happens good things will come. My short term goal is top 6 and get a bye in the BET. Next is play at least on Friday at the BET. After that is gravy
No they didn't. They also played a weak non-conference schedule. Theirs is rated #259 by KenPom. Ours is rated #263. Both awful OOC schedules.
I hope we get 5 (as long as we are one of them) but Butler has a long way to go. 4 of their 5 BE wins are against SJU and DePaul. Tough to get a read on them. 7 games left, assume they lose to Xavier and nova, they would need to go 4-1 vs SHU twice, @ Georgetown, creighton and Marquette just to get to 9-9 in the BE.
Right now I don't see it. BE looks like a 4 bid league.
I watched them play Michigan State in November, before Valentine was injured. Back then Michigan State was in the top 5.
I watched that game too. What's your point? Their non-conference schedule was not good overall, just like ours.
I think you're pretty accurate there. They are pretty ugly on offense much of the time. Dunn has had some great individual moments, but the promoting of him as national Player of the Year is a bit much.
When they played them Arizona was in the top 10 and Michigan State was ranked close to number one. Michigan State was playing great and their team was at full strength when Providence played them. The only reason they dropped in the rankings is because their best player was out for so many games. We did not play anyone of the caliber of the full strength Michigan State team in our non-conference. Our game against Wichita State is comparable to their game against Arizona. Even though the RPI are similar, Providence played some marquee teams and we didn't.
So Providence played one more marquee team than we did. That's not a "much tougher" non-conference schedule.
Providence loaded up on teams like Harvard, Brown, Hartford, NJIT, Bryant, Boston College, UMass and Rider. All bad teams. Just like we did with Wagner, Troy, Dartmouth, Bradley, Rutgers, USF and St. Peter's.
Just because you play one or two games against good competition doesn't make a 12 or 13 game out of conference schedule a quality one.
Providence loaded up on teams like Harvard, Brown, Hartford, NJIT, Bryant, Boston College, UMass and Rider. All bad teams. Just like we did with Wagner, Troy, Dartmouth, Bradley, Rutgers, USF and St. Peter's.
Just because you play one or two games against good competition doesn't make a 12 or 13 game out of conference schedule a quality one.
No, actually I am a Franciscan and have enjoyed many theological debates with the Dominicans!
I think everyone on this board agrees that if we had been able to play Virginia it would have made our non-con. sched. so much better. Public perception often trumps stats...
What if Providence lost to Evansville and played Santa Clara and UC Irvine instead of Arizona and Michigan State? Didn't happen and doesn't matter.
Of course, replacing Bradley and Mississippi with Virginia and Oklahoma State would be preferable. But it didn't happen and it doesn't matter now.
The bottom line is your schedule is what it is. Can't go back and change it.
Which takes me back to my point that Providence's non-conf. schedule, at least public-perception-wise, was significantly better than ours. Hence they are ranked high and we aren't ranked. 2 + 2 = 4
FWIW here you go. Everyone can make their own decision.
From Kenpom
First Providence
Sat Nov 14 204 Harvard W, 76-64 Home 1-0
Wed Nov 18 132 Illinois W, 60-59 Home 2-0
Sat Nov 21 280 Brown W, 94-73 Home 3-0
Mon Nov 23 182 NJIT W, 83-76 Home 4-0
Thu Nov 26 67 Evansville W, 74-64 Neutral 5-0
Fri Nov 27 13 Arizona W, 69-65 Neutral 6-0
Sun Nov 29 4 Michigan St. L, 77-64 Neutral 6-1
Wed Dec 2 336 Hartford W, 89-66 Home 7-1
Sat Dec 5 83 Rhode Island W, 74-72 Away 8-1
Wed Dec 9 257 Boston College W, 66-51 Home 9-1
Sat Dec 12 340 Bryant W, 74-67 Home 10-1
Sat Dec 19 181 Rider W, 73-65 Home 11-1
Mon Dec 21 206 Massachusetts W, 90-66 Away 12-1
Thu Dec 31 40 Butler W, 81-73 Away 13-1 1-0
Sat Jan 2 252 St. John's W, 83-65 Home 14-1 2-0
Tue Jan 5 109 Marquette L, 65-64 Home 14-2 2-1
Tue Jan 12 46 Creighton W, 50-48 Away 15-2 3-1
Sat Jan 16 30 Seton Hall L, 81-72 Home 15-3 3-2
Tue Jan 19 40 Butler W, 71-68 Home 16-3 4-2
Sun Jan 24 1 Villanova W, 82-76 OT Away 17-3 5-2
Tue Jan 26 18 Xavier L, 75-68 Home 17-4 5-3
Sat Jan 30 60 Georgetown W, 73-69 Away 18-4 6-3
Tue Feb 2 156 DePaul L, 77-70 Away 18-5 6-4
Sat Feb 6 1 Villanova L, 72-60 71 Home 18-6 6-5
From Kenpom
First Providence
Sat Nov 14 204 Harvard W, 76-64 Home 1-0
Wed Nov 18 132 Illinois W, 60-59 Home 2-0
Sat Nov 21 280 Brown W, 94-73 Home 3-0
Mon Nov 23 182 NJIT W, 83-76 Home 4-0
Thu Nov 26 67 Evansville W, 74-64 Neutral 5-0
Fri Nov 27 13 Arizona W, 69-65 Neutral 6-0
Sun Nov 29 4 Michigan St. L, 77-64 Neutral 6-1
Wed Dec 2 336 Hartford W, 89-66 Home 7-1
Sat Dec 5 83 Rhode Island W, 74-72 Away 8-1
Wed Dec 9 257 Boston College W, 66-51 Home 9-1
Sat Dec 12 340 Bryant W, 74-67 Home 10-1
Sat Dec 19 181 Rider W, 73-65 Home 11-1
Mon Dec 21 206 Massachusetts W, 90-66 Away 12-1
Thu Dec 31 40 Butler W, 81-73 Away 13-1 1-0
Sat Jan 2 252 St. John's W, 83-65 Home 14-1 2-0
Tue Jan 5 109 Marquette L, 65-64 Home 14-2 2-1
Tue Jan 12 46 Creighton W, 50-48 Away 15-2 3-1
Sat Jan 16 30 Seton Hall L, 81-72 Home 15-3 3-2
Tue Jan 19 40 Butler W, 71-68 Home 16-3 4-2
Sun Jan 24 1 Villanova W, 82-76 OT Away 17-3 5-2
Tue Jan 26 18 Xavier L, 75-68 Home 17-4 5-3
Sat Jan 30 60 Georgetown W, 73-69 Away 18-4 6-3
Tue Feb 2 156 DePaul L, 77-70 Away 18-5 6-4
Sat Feb 6 1 Villanova L, 72-60 71 Home 18-6 6-5
It is not significantly better! Nobody cares about public perception when the time comes to select and seed the field. Both Providence and Seton Hall played poor non-conference schedules, that's the bottom line.
Now SHU
Fri Nov 13 262 Dartmouth W, 84-67 Home 1-0
Sun Nov 15 186 Wagner W, 69-59 Home 2-0
Thu Nov 19 85 Long Beach St. L, 80-77 Neutral 2-1
Fri Nov 20 333 Bradley W, 67-59 Neutral 3-1
Sun Nov 22 95 Mississippi W, 75-63 Neutral 4-1
Sat Nov 28 78 Georgia W, 69-62 Home 5-1
Wed Dec 2 71 George Washington L, 72-64 Away 5-2
Sat Dec 5 283 Rutgers W, 84-55 Away 6-2
Thu Dec 10 275 Troy W, 78-69 Home 7-2
Sun Dec 13 237 Saint Peter's W, 72-46 Home 8-2
Sat Dec 19 16 Wichita St. W, 80-76 OT Home 9-2
Tue Dec 22 258 South Florida W, 66-49 Home 10-2
Wed Dec 30 109 Marquette W, 83-63 Away 11-2 1-0
Sat Jan 2 156 DePaul W, 78-74 Home 12-2 2-0
Wed Jan 6 1 Villanova L, 72-63 Away 12-3 2-1
Sat Jan 9 46 Creighton L, 82-67 Home 12-4 2-2
Sat Jan 16 50 Providence W, 81-72 Away 13-4 3-2
Wed Jan 20 1 Villanova L, 72-71 Home 13-5 3-3
Sat Jan 23 18 Xavier L, 84-76 Away 13-6 3-4
Wed Jan 27 252 St. John's W, 79-60 Home 14-6 4-4
Sat Jan 30 46 Creighton W, 75-65 Away 15-6 5-4
Wed Feb 3 109 Marquette W, 79-62 Home 16-6 6-4
Sat Feb 6 60 Georgetown W, 69-61 Home 17-6 7-4
Fri Nov 13 262 Dartmouth W, 84-67 Home 1-0
Sun Nov 15 186 Wagner W, 69-59 Home 2-0
Thu Nov 19 85 Long Beach St. L, 80-77 Neutral 2-1
Fri Nov 20 333 Bradley W, 67-59 Neutral 3-1
Sun Nov 22 95 Mississippi W, 75-63 Neutral 4-1
Sat Nov 28 78 Georgia W, 69-62 Home 5-1
Wed Dec 2 71 George Washington L, 72-64 Away 5-2
Sat Dec 5 283 Rutgers W, 84-55 Away 6-2
Thu Dec 10 275 Troy W, 78-69 Home 7-2
Sun Dec 13 237 Saint Peter's W, 72-46 Home 8-2
Sat Dec 19 16 Wichita St. W, 80-76 OT Home 9-2
Tue Dec 22 258 South Florida W, 66-49 Home 10-2
Wed Dec 30 109 Marquette W, 83-63 Away 11-2 1-0
Sat Jan 2 156 DePaul W, 78-74 Home 12-2 2-0
Wed Jan 6 1 Villanova L, 72-63 Away 12-3 2-1
Sat Jan 9 46 Creighton L, 82-67 Home 12-4 2-2
Sat Jan 16 50 Providence W, 81-72 Away 13-4 3-2
Wed Jan 20 1 Villanova L, 72-71 Home 13-5 3-3
Sat Jan 23 18 Xavier L, 84-76 Away 13-6 3-4
Wed Jan 27 252 St. John's W, 79-60 Home 14-6 4-4
Sat Jan 30 46 Creighton W, 75-65 Away 15-6 5-4
Wed Feb 3 109 Marquette W, 79-62 Home 16-6 6-4
Sat Feb 6 60 Georgetown W, 69-61 Home 17-6 7-4
A
