St. John’s - Pace
- Thread starter hbkmyr
- Start date
Fire that Pitino guy. He has no clue what he’s doing.
Yep, I told this to folks at the NIL event we attended yesterday before the NJIT - the best team money can buy does not always succeed. It's early, but we need to keep this in mind.
I've always thought this, and it has always been true. Programs were "buying" players long before NIL. Many of those had more resources than Seton Hall. Overall we've done OK. It's why I think the NIL-stuff gets overblown. We saw two teams in the final 4 last year who most certainly had nowhere near the most NIL. The blue bloods and other football schools have always had more resources.
I still think the same factors that have always mattered, matter most. And in college basketball I think Head Coach is #1 on that list.
SJU handles Rutgers but loses to D2 Pace. Rutgers destroys DePaul. Seton Hall struggles at NJIT. Stony Brook blows out Manhattan.
Seeing a pattern? The coaches are correct in not taking too much from these scrimmages.
To the lower ranked teams....this is their Super Bowl. To the favorites, a meaningless game they're playing with little emotion and barely any respect for the opponent.
Not a fan of Pitino, but to think this game, especially with 5 players out, will be more than a blip on the radar in January IMO is foolish.
Seeing a pattern? The coaches are correct in not taking too much from these scrimmages.
To the lower ranked teams....this is their Super Bowl. To the favorites, a meaningless game they're playing with little emotion and barely any respect for the opponent.
Not a fan of Pitino, but to think this game, especially with 5 players out, will be more than a blip on the radar in January IMO is foolish.
D-II Pace stuns Pitino-led St. John's in exhibition
St. John's lost an exhibition to Pace University, a Division II school, on Sunday. Pace led wire to wire in the 63-59 decision.
Division II Pace stuns Rick Pitino-led St. John's 63-59 in exhibition
Myron Medcalf, ESPN Staff Writer
In March, St. John's hired coach Rick Pitino to reboot its men's basketball program.
After the Red Storm's 63-59 exhibition loss to Pace University, a Division II school, it's clear those ambitions are still a work in progress.
On Sunday, St. John's, which was picked to finish fifth in the Big East's preseason poll, connected on only 26% of its field goal attempts and finished 6-for-34 from the field in the second half of the loss at Carnesecca Arena in Queens, just 15 miles from Pace's New York City campus.
The Pace Setters were picked to finish sixth in the Division II Northeast-10 Conference's preseason poll.
"I'm sure there are people in our league who put in their votes in the preseason poll and now they're going, 'Oh crap, maybe we ranked these guys too low,'" Pace coach Matt Healing told ESPN on Sunday. "We've had a couple of really good years in a row. We did graduate quite a bit. So maybe people were sleeping on us a little bit too much."
Healing said Pitino added the exhibition against Pace -- the loss followed St. John's 89-78 charity exhibition win over Rutgers on Oct. 21 -- to the Red Storm's schedule after Pitino was hired in March. Healing knew members of Pitino's staff and pushed for the matchup.
St. John's paid Pace, which led wire to wire on Sunday, $5,000 for the matchup, according to Healing.
"For us Division II programs, every little bit helps," Healing said.
Although St. John's did not have standouts Joel Soriano (15.2 points per game last season) and Jordan Dingle (23.4 PPG at Penn last season) for Sunday's game, it was still a stunning result for the Red Storm, who fired previous coach Mike Anderson and replaced him with Pitino.
Chris Ledlum, who averaged 18.8 points at Harvard last season, finished 2-for-14 in the loss to Pace. Daniss Jenkins, who averaged 15.6 points for Pitino at Iona last year, missed all four of his field goal attempts.
With Pace leading 39-34 at halftime, Healing said he told his players to remain disciplined.
"Just stay the course," he said he told them. "The results were working in our favor, but the results were working in our favor because we were doing all the things, all the little things, that we preach every day."
Pitino's arrival has changed the perception of St. John's, which received 47 votes in The Associated Press Top 25 preseason poll months after an 18-15 finish in 2022-23 under Anderson.
Pitino, who led Kentucky to the 1996 national title and Louisville to the 2013 national title that was later vacated, was aggressive as he quickly altered St. John's roster by adding 10 transfers who could position the program to compete for an invitation to the NCAA tournament in his first season. Last week, he told ESPN's Seth Greenberg and Kevin Negandhi that he wants a "whole new culture" at St. John's.
That can still happen.
Sunday's loss could be a wake-up call, however, about the challenges ahead for a talented St. John's squad, which will need time to build chemistry.
But it was also a great moment for Healing and his program playing against a legendary coach.
"[Pitino] was just very complimentary," Healing said about his postgame conversation with Pitino. "He said, 'Great game. You guys deserve this. Heckuva job coaching. Your kids fought like hell.' That's really what it was about. We were thankful.
"I know it's not easy to play another New York City school like this in this sort of game, and hope that they continue to do it, whether it's against Pace or somebody else, and give some of us Division II schools an opportunity like this. But [Pitino] was very gracious and complimentary, and I know we are, as well."
Might turn out to be the most meaningful game of the year. You know deep down inside Pitino loves this. He's going to have their attention for a while now. Whatever they did wrong, he's going to hammer it into them big time. Year 5 of Pitino in Queens this wouldn't be good. Year 1, he's probably loving it. This is how he establishes that culture of you're not good enough to take 1 play off. We say this about how every coach would handle this. But he has proved it for 40 years.
sure take nothing from these games… but there’s something to take with this one…
SJU is grossly overrated. Similar to last year- Entire season boils down to Soriano’s availability
Ledlum is nothing more than another body in the big east. And I think we’ll find that Dingle Doesn’t make the smoothest of transitions
SJU is grossly overrated. Similar to last year- Entire season boils down to Soriano’s availability
Ledlum is nothing more than another body in the big east. And I think we’ll find that Dingle Doesn’t make the smoothest of transitions
No. 25 Syracuse loses stunner to D-II Le Moyne
Christopher Johnson scored 22 points in the second half, including a 3-pointer with 8.3 seconds remaining, and Division II Le Moyne stunned Syracuse 82-79 in an exhibition game.
For what it's worth...
It was without projected starters Joel Soriano (calf), Jordan Dingle (left hand) and RJ Luis (broken left hand), and only had nine available players due to other injuries.
Former UConn player Nahiem Alleyne lead the Johnnies with 22 points.
It was without projected starters Joel Soriano (calf), Jordan Dingle (left hand) and RJ Luis (broken left hand), and only had nine available players due to other injuries.
Former UConn player Nahiem Alleyne lead the Johnnies with 22 points.
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We were awful, to a D1 team at their gym with 1000 o f their fans watching and we pulled it out. And they lost to PACE, I assume at Alumni. The possiblity exists that maybe they just are not that good. It may have been Source who said this may happen quickly.
We shouldn't be too excited about anyone else struggling...
If we were missing 3 starters we would’ve lost by 20
I've stated I think that group will struggle early because it is Year 1 and all the new parts. I don't get the "best team money can buy stuff". That's an invention IMO. I also don't think they are being vastly overrated by anyone -- they were picked 5th, not 1st or 2nd -- and the margin between 5 and 7 or 8 this year seems like it isn't that great a margin. He assembled a good roster, but no way do they have anywhere near the NIL funding of blue bloods and big football schools, or frankly probably even the top-tier of Big East teams right now. A big reason they got all those players is because Pitino is one of the best to ever do it. I do think he will have them round into a good team this year because they have talent and he's a master.
And if we lost to PACE wth our top 7 players missing it would be armagedden here, specially if we just pissed away our principles by hiring Pitino and were picked as a Top 25 and had NIL money to burn to buy a new and well thought of roster.
A great PJ team lost to Marathon Oil back in the day. It is an exhibition and it means nothing. I get that. But I think if we just lost to PACE under any circumstance then it would make the negative reactions on this board over the summer look like high praise.
If we lost to Pace and had just brought in Rick Pitino, I think we would have plenty of reason to remain calm that by year 2 we'd be in a good place and by year 3 we'd be ready to rock and roll on the national scene.
I remember those Marathon Oil exhibitions, although I don’t recall the game you are referencing.
You are right that a contingent on this board, like any other fan base, would flip out if this happened. Just like any other fan base.
I don’t get the pissing on principles part. Any “principles” have long lost the college game when fans are being asked to pay for kids already receiving enormous benefits.
You are right that a contingent on this board, like any other fan base, would flip out if this happened. Just like any other fan base.
I don’t get the pissing on principles part. Any “principles” have long lost the college game when fans are being asked to pay for kids already receiving enormous benefits.
Back in the day they were a semi-pro team consisting of recently graduated collegiate players who were trying to get noticed by NBA, CBA and other professional scouts. Those teams were far superior to D2 and lower level D1 schools. More like a decent mid major.
Those barnstorming teams stopped playing college teams maybe about 20 years ago.
Those barnstorming teams stopped playing college teams maybe about 20 years ago.
Interesting, thanks. I dug a little deeper re: barnstorming--apparently banned by the NCAA in 2004 in part to prevent recruiting shenanigans (e.g., Rudy Gay's AAU team getting paid to play UCONN)--and vaguely jogging some memories, such as exhibition games teams used to play against Athletes in Action.
God's favorite basketball team.
March Madness? Yawn. The most wonderful time of the college basketball season comes before the season even starts. That's when vagabond teams of CBA...
Yes that Calhoun/Gay story got out there because he was such an enormous talent at the prep level and everyone wanted the kid.Interesting, thanks. I dug a little deeper re: barnstorming--apparently banned by the NCAA in 2004 in part to prevent recruiting shenanigans (e.g., Rudy Gay's AAU team getting paid to play UCONN)--and vaguely jogging some memories, such as exhibition games teams used to play against Athletes in Action.
God's favorite basketball team.
March Madness? Yawn. The most wonderful time of the college basketball season comes before the season even starts. That's when vagabond teams of CBA...slate.com
Surprised--- maybe not--- that no one commented on the underwhelming turnout at Saturday's touted scrimmage: about 1,100 in a building that seats 3,500, though, apparently, it was not set up for the full 3,500.
No one is going to comment on that, of course. There were guaranteed to be more posts about how much Rutgers drew for their exhibition, which was like 4 times that number from what I saw online.
Kudos for our fans who showed. I couldn’t for a game at that time with all the kid activities that fill weekends.
We usually do a bad job with preseason games. Even when it is a fund raiser to help jerry walker. Empty seats at walsh for the scrimmage. Oh right. It was rainy...lol
People complain about going to Newark for BE games. They're not going to Newark for this exhibition.
Apropos of nothing except being reminded of this player, I remember in middle school when a friend mixed things up a bit in telling me a top incoming freshman was named Gay Rudy.
Yep. Keep in mind though it was a perfectly legal and common practice at the time.
