State of the program……

[Hall91]

Is really up in the air right now. This team has no legit 3 pt shooters. Dawes has Harris-itis. It’s going to be a really hard season to deal with. Not sure if Shaheen can survive this or not. We need more 3pt shooters on this team, and enough to compete in the low post.

This game was a wake up call. Rutgers isn’t even that good but they beat us most facets of the game. We are what we are.

 

[Piratz]

The state of the program is it’s in rebuild. Most here thought we’d have 6-7 non-conf wins and a losing BE record for the first time in nearly a decade. We know where the league coaches picked us.

Sha’s team has looked awful against anyone in a power conference. It’s not surprising. The players being relied upon like Dawes and Addae-Wusu aren’t good enough to step up. They’re not top starters on good teams.

 

[shu09]

I take a more macro, 35,000 foot view. Seton Hall is trending down while all of its competitors are trending up, on and off the court.

UConn is back in the Big East and has returned to being a national power. Marquette has been revived by Shaka. St. John's is going to get better under Slick Rick. There's no way Georgetown stays in the basement long term under Cooley. Xavier will continue to trend up under Miller, even if it struggles this season. Creighton is a well-oiled machine, so long as McDermott stays in Omaha. Providence looks to remain fairly stable for the time being after Cooley built them up over a decade, but the jury is out on English. Villanova is having bumps in the road under Neptune but it's still Villanova and a program with a far higher stature and greater prestige than Seton Hall. The opponent tonight, Rutgers, is also trending up and it is a direct competitor for local recruits.

Seton Hall enjoyed very nice success from 2016-2020 - a period with UConn out of the league and inept coaches at Marquette, St. John's, Xavier, and Georgetown. The Hall stepped up its recruiting during this time and took advantage of the downturns at the aforementioned conference rivals. Every single piece of that equation has flipped since then - including a coaching change at Seton Hall. It's going to get worse before it gets better, and, quite honestly, I don't know if it will ever get that much better again in this new era of pay to play.

 

[Gohall129]

We’ve seen nothing from Sha that gives the slightest bit of encouragement for the future. Only chance Sha has to give us a chance is to bench Dawes. If he doesn’t he’s going to lose 50% of the fan base

 

[Piratz]

I take a more macro, 35,000 foot view. Seton Hall is trending down while all of its competitors are trending up, on and off the court.

UConn is back in the Big East and has returned to being a national power. Marquette has been revived by Shaka. St. John's is going to get better under Slick Rick. There's no way Georgetown stays in the basement long term under Cooley. Xavier will continue to trend up under Miller, even if it struggles this season. Creighton is a well-oiled machine, so long as McDermott stays in Omaha. Providence looks to remain fairly stable for the time being after Cooley built them up over a decade, but the jury is out on English. Villanova is having bumps in the road under Neptune but it's still Villanova and a program with a far higher stature and greater prestige than Seton Hall. The opponent tonight, Rutgers, is also trending up and it is a direct competitor for local recruits.

Seton Hall enjoyed very nice success from 2016-2020 - a period with UConn out of the league and inept coaches at Marquette, St. John's, Xavier, and Georgetown. The Hall stepped up its recruiting during this time and took advantage of the downturns at the aforementioned conference rivals. Every single piece of that equation has flipped since then - including a coaching change at Seton Hall. It's going to get worse before it gets better, and, quite honestly, I don't know if it will ever get that much better again in this new era of pay to play.

All of your examples got the guy right and have money. Idk if Sha is the guy or not. We’re paying him to be the guy. Honestly I felt better about things with Willard than I do with Holloway as I have not be wow’d by him as HC. But it’s still way early and he walked into a totally new world. Be he needs more help.

Anyway it doesn’t matter who is coaching unless we have a viable NIL program. This is the new world order. It’ll be even worse on us than the money under the table was.

 

[The Crows Nest]

Is really up in the air right now. This team has no legit 3 pt shooters. Dawes has Harris-itis. It’s going to be a really hard season to deal with. Not sure if Shaheen can survive this or not. We need more 3pt shooters on this team, and enough to compete in the low post.

This game was a wake up call. Rutgers isn’t even that good but they beat us most facets of the game. We are what we are.

This was all painfully obvious after last season when our eyes bled watching that team.

Unfortunately more bleeding eyes this season.

So…either our staff cannot accurately judge talent, or the team’s improvement from year to year, or they just kid themselves and think we’re better than we are, but either way they thought we were a MUCH better shooting team this year…and…wow were they wrong

 

[The Crows Nest]

The state of the program is it’s in rebuild. Most here thought we’d have 6-7 non-conf wins and a losing BE record for the first time in nearly a decade. We know where the league coaches picked us.

Sha’s team has looked awful against anyone in a power conference. It’s not surprising. The players being relied upon like Dawes and Addae-Wusu aren’t good enough to step up. They’re not top starters on good teams.

If we win more than 5 league games…it may be a major upset. Right now…4 seems like the max

 

[jack 1970]

I take a more macro, 35,000 foot view. Seton Hall is trending down while all of its competitors are trending up, on and off the court.

UConn is back in the Big East and has returned to being a national power. Marquette has been revived by Shaka. St. John's is going to get better under Slick Rick. There's no way Georgetown stays in the basement long term under Cooley. Xavier will continue to trend up under Miller, even if it struggles this season. Creighton is a well-oiled machine, so long as McDermott stays in Omaha. Providence looks to remain fairly stable for the time being after Cooley built them up over a decade, but the jury is out on English. Villanova is having bumps in the road under Neptune but it's still Villanova and a program with a far higher stature and greater prestige than Seton Hall. The opponent tonight, Rutgers, is also trending up and it is a direct competitor for local recruits.

Seton Hall enjoyed very nice success from 2016-2020 - a period with UConn out of the league and inept coaches at Marquette, St. John's, Xavier, and Georgetown. The Hall stepped up its recruiting during this time and took advantage of the downturns at the aforementioned conference rivals. Every single piece of that equation has flipped since then - including a coaching change at Seton Hall. It's going to get worse before it gets better, and, quite honestly, I don't know if it will ever get that much better again in this new era of pay to play.

We're not going to get anywhere by making excuses.

 

[SeanieWard]

I thought this team would struggle as currently constructed. I think they lack real depth and talent overall.

The good:
Bediako has been a solid addition to the team. He can play. Without him we'd be much worst for sure. Coleman is a good young player and nice find by Sha but he's a freshman and will make mistakes. Richmond is by far the best player on the team and a damn good player. Will most likely play professionally somewhere once he's done playing college ball. Dawes although inconsistent, can play at this level but needs to find some consistency with his shooting. Dre Davis is good but should probably be a bit more selfish looking for his shot. All these guys are starters besides Coleman.

The bad:
Dylan Addae-Wusu is not a starter in the BE. He doesn't do anything well. Doesn't shoot or finish well. His handles and decision making is suspect. He's strong and makes some hustle plays but he's a player you bring off the bench for 10-15 min a game for energy and hustle on a good team. The problem is we aren't very good. Sanders can shoot but he's a low to mid D1 player to me that we're forced to play. Elijah-Hutchins-Everett..haven't seen enough of him yet to give a fair assessment due to him being out on concussion protocol but I think he's a solid backup for 10-15 min a game. If he ever has to start we might be in trouble. NgaNga has the body..he's long and athletic but doesn't seem like he has the game right now to contribute to winning basketball. He hasn't done anything to get excited about all season. Ozdogan cannot compete at this level yet at all and will be a liability whenever he's on the floor. Malachi Brown actually looks like a solid player and I might give him some more minutes to see if he can make a difference but I'm afraid when we get into BE play his size might be a problem against the bigger more physical teams

I do think Tubek will become a solid contributor this season and if he stays around should be a good player for SH going forward but I haven't seen him enough yet to say that with much confidence. But he looks the part. Hopefully he's good enough to take some minutes away from Dylan

Bottom line is Sha did not recruit well enough this past offseason and this team is not as good as last year's team. I wonder if the players are responding to Sha's style of coaching and buying into his system, whatever that is. We have a pretty good class coming in next year with 2 three star recruits who I think will add talent right away and who should play an impact from day 1. So I don't think the program is headed in the wrong direction but this might certainly be a down year for us

 

[MBF72]

This was all painfully obvious after last season when our eyes bled watching that team.

Unfortunately more bleeding eyes this season.

So…either our staff cannot accurately judge talent, or the team’s improvement from year to year, or they just kid themselves and think we’re better than we are, but either way they thought we were a MUCH better shooting team this year…and…wow were they wrong.

I'm not a huge fan of this coaching staff, but I'd bet they didn't kid themselves about the quality of this team as much as many/most posters have.

 

[Hall Is Life]

I'm not a huge fan of this coaching staff, but I'd bet they didn't kid themselves about the quality of this team as much as many/most posters have.

Really? Sha didn’t talk say anything about the “best backcourt in the Big East”?

 

[SHallguy2]

Is really up in the air right now. This team has no legit 3 pt shooters. Dawes has Harris-itis. It’s going to be a really hard season to deal with. Not sure if Shaheen can survive this or not. We need more 3pt shooters on this team, and enough to compete in the low post.

This game was a wake up call. Rutgers isn’t even that good but they beat us most facets of the game. We are what we are.

Have to wonder what the coach is doing or saying to guys like Harris and Dawes. Watching Dawes become Harris this year makes me wonder if our coach is part of the problem. Just crazy to watch. No doubt in my mind we are better with Sanders in the game. Bright spot to me last night, looking for cutters, passing and played ok defensively. Sanders does not force the game takes what is given to him and moves on offense without the ball when everyone else is standing around. Given what I have seen I would switch out him and Coleman for Wusu and Dawes. Nothing to lose we are going nowhere fast. Need to send a message.

 

[SHallguy2]

Really? Sha didn’t talk say anything about the “best backcourt in the Big East”?

Laid a heap of pressure on those kids with that statement. Coaching learning pains?

 

[CaptBob]

Throughout the years I have seen some really bad teams at the Hall. There were a few seasons under Richie & Raf that the team couldn't have beaten a bottom tier MAAC squad. This year is shaping up as one that will give those teams a run for the money. Just wait until the Big East schedule starts, things will get ugly. Potential to be battling with DePaul for the Bottom of the Barrel award.
Sha has to face the reality and sit Dawes at the end of the bench. His shot selection & lack of D are horrible. How can he pull players for a blown assignment and not hold Dawes to the same standard. That is begging for locker room issues -- then come the transfers, then de-commitments-. Start Coleman & see what Sanders and others can contribute--they can't do much worse. So we get our ass kicked a few times-it's going to happen as it has been.
The Higher-UPs had better start taking a serious look at what's happening with the program. There is a full blown Beg-a-thon in progress to support Pirate athletics but who will supervise the distribution of sed funds? How much is Sha getting? $2+ million? not looking like a good ROI so far! Does he not see that he cannot do it all? He NEEDS an OC to make some semblance of a game plan instead of the uncoordinated mess we see nightly. Things need to change----
Capt Bob, class of '73

 

[Piratz]

Really? Sha didn’t talk say anything about the “best backcourt in the Big East”?

They've really let him down in brutal fashion.

Look the team is the same team we thought would have issues all summer:

1. Good PG play from Richmond, no back-up.
2. Bad SG and wing play from Dawes and Addae-Wusu. Both starters playing well below their offensive numbers as Seniors, which is crazy.
3. Our best wing is playing PF. He's been good, but less than ideal.
4. Pretty good C play overall.

Nothing experienced off the bench. Some real good flashes from Coleman. The rest are all totally unproven projects.

That above is a recipe for a bad season.

 

[stipe65]

I thought this team would struggle as currently constructed. I think they lack real depth and talent overall.

The good:
Bediako has been a solid addition to the team. He can play. Without him we'd be much worst for sure. Coleman is a good young player and nice find by Sha but he's a freshman and will make mistakes. Richmond is by far the best player on the team and a damn good player. Will most likely play professionally somewhere once he's done playing college ball. Dawes although inconsistent, can play at this level but needs to find some consistency with his shooting. Dre Davis is good but should probably be a bit more selfish looking for his shot. All these guys are starters besides Coleman.

The bad:
Dylan Addae-Wusu is not a starter in the BE. He doesn't do anything well. Doesn't shoot or finish well. His handles and decision making is suspect. He's strong and makes some hustle plays but he's a player you bring off the bench for 10-15 min a game for energy and hustle on a good team. The problem is we aren't very good. Sanders can shoot but he's a low to mid D1 player to me that we're forced to play. Elijah-Hutchins-Everett..haven't seen enough of him yet to give a fair assessment due to him being out on concussion protocol but I think he's a solid backup for 10-15 min a game. If he ever has to start we might be in trouble. NgaNga has the body..he's long and athletic but doesn't seem like he has the game right now to contribute to winning basketball. He hasn't done anything to get excited about all season. Ozdogan cannot compete at this level yet at all and will be a liability whenever he's on the floor. Malachi Brown actually looks like a solid player and I might give him some more minutes to see if he can make a difference but I'm afraid when we get into BE play his size might be a problem against the bigger more physical teams

I do think Tubek will become a solid contributor this season and if he stays around should be a good player for SH going forward but I haven't seen him enough yet to say that with much confidence. But he looks the part. Hopefully he's good enough to take some minutes away from Dylan

Bottom line is Sha did not recruit well enough this past offseason and this team is not as good as last year's team. I wonder if the players are responding to Sha's style of coaching and buying into his system, whatever that is. We have a pretty good class coming in next year with 2 three star recruits who I think will add talent right away and who should play an impact from day 1. So I don't think the program is headed in the wrong direction but this might certainly be a down year for us

Solid post but I’m sorry -(and I hate to add to the Dawes rants, but)) - Dawes cannot play as a starter at this level. Sha thinks he can play the point when Richmond’d on the bench. Did you see him when Rutgers pressed a little and he panicked, threw the ball away and fell down scrambling back. Just no decision making ability at all, same when clock is winding down, etc.
But love our 2 centers. Bediako totally underused. Best depth we’ve had there in some time, but going wasted.

 

[PirateFan94]

We’ve seen nothing from Sha that gives the slightest bit of encouragement for the future. Only chance Sha has to give us a chance is to bench Dawes. If he doesn’t he’s going to lose 50% of the fan base

And future recruits. If we can’t pay them the only this we have to offer off a chance to play. Keeping Dawes in the lineup is going to kill is long term, not just this season.

 

[PirateFan94]

I thought this team would struggle as currently constructed. I think they lack real depth and talent overall.

The good:
Bediako has been a solid addition to the team. He can play. Without him we'd be much worst for sure. Coleman is a good young player and nice find by Sha but he's a freshman and will make mistakes. Richmond is by far the best player on the team and a damn good player. Will most likely play professionally somewhere once he's done playing college ball. Dawes although inconsistent, can play at this level but needs to find some consistency with his shooting. Dre Davis is good but should probably be a bit more selfish looking for his shot. All these guys are starters besides Coleman.

The bad:
Dylan Addae-Wusu is not a starter in the BE. He doesn't do anything well. Doesn't shoot or finish well. His handles and decision making is suspect. He's strong and makes some hustle plays but he's a player you bring off the bench for 10-15 min a game for energy and hustle on a good team. The problem is we aren't very good. Sanders can shoot but he's a low to mid D1 player to me that we're forced to play. Elijah-Hutchins-Everett..haven't seen enough of him yet to give a fair assessment due to him being out on concussion protocol but I think he's a solid backup for 10-15 min a game. If he ever has to start we might be in trouble. NgaNga has the body..he's long and athletic but doesn't seem like he has the game right now to contribute to winning basketball. He hasn't done anything to get excited about all season. Ozdogan cannot compete at this level yet at all and will be a liability whenever he's on the floor. Malachi Brown actually looks like a solid player and I might give him some more minutes to see if he can make a difference but I'm afraid when we get into BE play his size might be a problem against the bigger more physical teams

I do think Tubek will become a solid contributor this season and if he stays around should be a good player for SH going forward but I haven't seen him enough yet to say that with much confidence. But he looks the part. Hopefully he's good enough to take some minutes away from Dylan

Bottom line is Sha did not recruit well enough this past offseason and this team is not as good as last year's team. I wonder if the players are responding to Sha's style of coaching and buying into his system, whatever that is. We have a pretty good class coming in next year with 2 three star recruits who I think will add talent right away and who should play an impact from day 1. So I don't think the program is headed in the wrong direction but this might certainly be a down year for us

Did you mix up Dylan and Dawes? Dawes is absolutely awful. He does nothing well. Coleman and Sanders should absolutely be starting. Tubek should be felt significant minutes. Brown should be getting minutes. Undersized? So is Dawes. Develop the future. This season is over.

 

[shu09]

We're not going to get anywhere by making excuses.

What I laid out is not a set of excuses. It is a set of incontrovertible facts that explain where Seton Hall was in the latter half of the 2010's, is now, and where it is headed. Absent major changes in parts of the equation (coaching changes at other programs, Shaheen all of a sudden figuring it out, SH falling into a pot of NIL money), that's how it's going to be.

 

[JoePeppitone2012]

Total rebuild mode and I think it starts with the AD for allowing this coaching staff Sha created

 

[SeanieWard]

Solid post but I’m sorry -(and I hate to add to the Dawes rants, but)) - Dawes cannot play as a starter at this level. Sha thinks he can play the point when Richmond’d on the bench. Did you see him when Rutgers pressed a little and he panicked, threw the ball away and fell down scrambling back. Just no decision making ability at all, same when clock is winding down, etc.
But love our 2 centers. Bediako totally underused. Best depth we’ve had there in some time, but going wasted.

Since I wrote this post, Dawes has proven that he can play at this level. Like I said, he just has to be more consistent. Shots won't always fall but gotta find ways to get to the basket and make plays to get others involved. But he's a gamer and I believe he will be better as the season goes

 

[Piratz]

Since I wrote this post, Dawes has proven that he can play at this level. Like I said, he just has to be more consistent. Shots won't always fall but gotta find ways to get to the basket and make plays to get others involved. But he's a gamer and I believe he will be better as the season goes

Dawes is doing more across the board. He was 1/14 from 2PT in the 4 losses and took 37 three's. In these past two wins he took 12 two's and 12 three's. He's been more under control lately and went 5/5 against Missouri and 4/7 against Connecticut from 2PT. He also had 5 assists over the two games after just registering 7 total in those 4 losses. He had 3 rebounds against Connecticut; he had a grand total of 6 in the 4 losses.

If this keeps up it is a different player than we saw in the losses. Sha said he's been working with him to see more of the game. It looks like its working, at least from the past week.

Sha also mentioned after the UCONN game about a lot of work he's been doing with Addae-Wusu and his role with the team. That has been working too.