Team Offense

[Piratz]

I know KW self deprecates about his offense, but I mean what are we watching here? Can anyone help me out? Are we even running plays, lol? There's so much stagnation and dribbling, very little movement or passing, and so many bad or low-percentage shots taken. It looks like a middle school team far too often.

Seton Hall's offense in league play is now 10th in turnover%, 10th in 2PT%, 11th in A:FGM. For a team filled with wings and bigs, we're 10th in % of points from 2PT. Amazingly we're 2nd in 3PT% and 2nd in OR% (makes sense with the missed shots), which is saving us... Barely.

Getting to the FT line was a big part of our offensive efficiency early in the year. Even that has fallen off a cliff. That's the exact same situation as last year too, which coincided with our collapse. And it's not the officials; it's the scout.

 

[TomWall]

I know KW self deprecates about his offense, but I mean what are we watching here? Can anyone help me out? Are we even running plays, lol? There's so much stagnation and dribbling, very little movement or passing and so many bad or low-percentage shots taken. It looks like a middle school team far too often.

Seton Hall's offense in league play is now 10th in turnover%, 10th in 2PT%, 11th in A:FGM. For a team filled with wings and bigs, we're 10th in % of points from 2PT. Amazingly we're 2nd in 3PT% and 2nd in OR%, which is saving us... Barely.

Getting to the FT line was a big part of our offensive efficiency early in the year. Even that has fallen off a cliff. That's the exact same situation as last year too, which coincided with our collapse. And it's not the officials; it's the scout.

You are spot on. It’s so obvious what the situation is. But so many put their head in the sand.

 

[Piratz]

For the second consecutive season we're playing with 1 legitimate guard most of the time and trying to play forwards at the 2G spot. Willard's best teams here always have two legit guards playing in tandem who can create and score off the dribble and that makes a big difference. Go back to Whitehead, Carrington, Powell, McKnight, etc.

He really can't play Richmond and Harris together for too long considering that's it on the roster at guard, but I'd push that more.

 

[SHallguy2]

For the second consecutive season we're playing with 1 legitimate guard most of the time and trying to play forwards at the 2G spot. Willard's best teams here always have two legit guards playing in tandem who can create and score off the dribble and that makes a big difference. Go back to Whitehead, Carrington, Powell, McKnight, etc.

He really can't play Richmond and Harris together for too long considering that's it on the roster at guard, but I'd push that more.

People will think I’m crazy but losing Long was a big deal. We could use another guard like him for just 5 to 7 minutes right now.

 

[LeftCoastPirates]

For the second consecutive season we're playing with 1 legitimate guard most of the time and trying to play forwards at the 2G spot. Willard's best teams here always have two legit guards playing in tandem who can create and score off the dribble and that makes a big difference. Go back to Whitehead, Carrington, Powell, McKnight, etc.

He really can't play Richmond and Harris together for too long considering that's it on the roster at guard, but I'd push that more.

Just think about that comment for a second. We are really analyzing a Power 6 - high D1 basketball program and saying the issue is we don’t have “two” legit guards on this roster that can create and score off the dribble. I agree that it’s a true statement, but just WOW. 🤦‍♂️

 

[LeftCoastPirates]

People will think I’m crazy but losing Long was a big deal. We could use another guard like him for just 5 to 7 minutes right now.

Long may have helped manage the minutes load that Kadary is taking on, but our issues are rooted on the offensive side of the ball. At this point we have seen very limited ability for Jahari to score the ball. So for 5-7 minutes our offense would probably regress further if that is even possible.

 

[SHallguy2]

I know KW self deprecates about his offense, but I mean what are we watching here? Can anyone help me out? Are we even running plays, lol? There's so much stagnation and dribbling, very little movement or passing, and so many bad or low-percentage shots taken. It looks like a middle school team far too often.

Seton Hall's offense in league play is now 10th in turnover%, 10th in 2PT%, 11th in A:FGM. For a team filled with wings and bigs, we're 10th in % of points from 2PT. Amazingly we're 2nd in 3PT% and 2nd in OR% (makes sense with the missed shots), which is saving us... Barely.

Getting to the FT line was a big part of our offensive efficiency early in the year. Even that has fallen off a cliff. That's the exact same situation as last year too, which coincided with our collapse. And it's not the officials; it's the scout.

The only guy moving is Harris and no one throws him the ball, makes me crazy to watch. A big part of the problem is we are playing 5 on 4 with Ike out there. What we gain defensively we suffer for offensively. Still think the good out weights the bad. Feel like Yetna is not playing as much as earlier in the season. I Believe we are evolving trying to find the right chemistry of players. Last night Cale gets in foul trouble and any plan we might of had gets thrown out the window.

 

[TomWall]

People will think I’m crazy but losing Long was a big deal. We could use another guard like him for just 5 to 7 minutes right now.

Not crazy at all. He did an adequate job as a pass first PG giving our starter a break for a few minutes. Debatable but when Long went down, we might have reconsidered playing Conway.

 

[Piratz]

The only guy moving is Harris and no one throws him the ball, makes me crazy to watch. A big part of the problem is we are playing 5 on 4 with Ike out there. What we gain defensively we suffer for offensively. Still think the good out weights the bad. Feel like Yetna is not playing as much as earlier in the season. I Believe we are evolving trying to find the right chemistry of players. Last night Cale gets in foul trouble and any plan we might of had gets thrown out the window.

You have to run plays for players like Harris and Jackson. Don't ask them to create their own shot. We don't make it a priority to screen for Harris ever. We've run a few things for Jackson here and there, of course the most memorable was the play to end the 1st half at MSG against St. John's. Jackson is also miscast at the 4, but that song falls on deaf ears.

Look at Rhoden. We're hellbent on getting him the ball at the top of the key or 3PT line and making him work his ass off to get a look, which usually is a bad one. The primary reason his offensive numbers are so bad in conference play. Neither he or Cale are good enough ball handlers to create their own offense that way; both are downhill forwards. Cale is savvy enough to float around and get himself open for a good look from 3 at times, but his shot is very inconsistent; Rhoden's outside shot has never been good.

We basically ask Richmond to get into the lane on his own. Very little clearing or screening action for him.

 

[silkcitypirate]

You have to run plays for players like Harris and Jackson. Don't ask them to create their own shot. We don't make it a priority to screen for Harris ever. We've run a few things for Jackson here and there, of course the most memorable was the play to end the 1st half at MSG against St. John's. Jackson is also miscast at the 4, but that song falls on deaf ears.

Look at Rhoden. We're hellbent on getting him the ball at the top of the key or 3PT line and making him work his ass off to get a look, which usually is a bad one. The primary reason his offensive numbers are so bad in conference play. Neither he or Cale are good enough ball handlers to create their own offense that way; both are downhill forwards. Cale is savvy enough to float around and get himself open for a good look from 3 at times, but his shot is very inconsistent; Rhoden's outside shot has never been good.

We basically ask Richmond to get into the lane on his own. Very little clearing or screening action for him.

Great job of breaking down our offense or lack of it. There are countless times when a player like Harris ,Jackson or a players a get a hot hand and they never touch the ball again.

 

[hallgrad80]

All the points Piratz and others have made in this and similar threads are valid and they have captured the essence of our offensive problems and I applaud them for doing so. But what vexes me is when is Kevin going to acknowledge the weakness we have consistently shown offensively, admit his offensive schemes are not working and take the steps to correct them or will be having this same conversation next season .

 

[Nbnylon]

Most if it is on the coaches and lack of ability to adjust. When DePaul is in a 1-3-1 passing it to someone at the foul line is not going to work unless our shooters move to the corners for an open shot or someone cuts underneath. There is no movement.

What kills me even more is that everyone knows when KR backs up a small guard in the post a big ALWAYS comes down to help and yet we have not worked on plays off of that. It’s a gold mine fir Harris and Trey waiting to happen.

 

[silkcitypirate]

All the points Piratz and others have made in this and similar threads are valid and they have captured the essence of our offensive problems and I applaud them for doing so. But what vexes me is when is Kevin going to acknowledge the weakness we have consistently shown offensively, admit his offensive schemes are working and take the steps to correct them or will be having this same conversation next season .

Most likely the same and my money is on the same conversation next year .

 

[SHUSA]

I know KW self deprecates about his offense, but I mean what are we watching here? Can anyone help me out? Are we even running plays, lol? There's so much stagnation and dribbling, very little movement or passing, and so many bad or low-percentage shots taken. It looks like a middle school team far too often.

Seton Hall's offense in league play is now 10th in turnover%, 10th in 2PT%, 11th in A:FGM. For a team filled with wings and bigs, we're 10th in % of points from 2PT. Amazingly we're 2nd in 3PT% and 2nd in OR% (makes sense with the missed shots), which is saving us... Barely.

Getting to the FT line was a big part of our offensive efficiency early in the year. Even that has fallen off a cliff. That's the exact same situation as last year too, which coincided with our collapse. And it's not the officials; it's the scout.

the guy cant even youtube something? when does stubborn bleed into incompetent?

 

[silkcitypirate]

Most if it is on the coaches and lack of ability to adjust. When DePaul is in a 1-3-1 passing it to someone at the foul line is not going to work unless our shooters move to the corners for an open shot or someone cuts underneath. There is no movement.

What kills me even more is that everyone knows when KR backs up a small guard in the post a big ALWAYS comes down to help and yet we have not worked on plays off of that. It’s a gold mine fir Harris and Trey waiting to happen.

Another great observation. Willards biggest negatives in my opinions are his offense and inability to recognize and make in game adjustments. Difference of being a good coach and a very good coach.

 

[SHUMatt]

Another great observation. Willards biggest negatives in my opinions are his offense and inability to recognize and make in game adjustments. Difference of being a good coach and a very good coach.

We outscored almost every team in the 2nd half so he is making adjustments just not during the game. I think his biggest negatives are:
Offense
Stubbornness to not change
Recruiting high school talent
Lack of motivating his players

 

[Nbnylon]

The effort is there! Just look at our D especially our 3 point D compared to years past. We are number 1 in league in that category and top 30 I believe in nation. Imagine if we didn’t have those crazy last second or banked in 3s allowed each game ( a category I believe we lead the nation) we’d be even higher. A lot if D is personal effort but on O you need designed plays based on what your opponent is doing and that’s clearly on the coaches.

 

[LeftCoastPirates]

We outscored almost every team in the 2nd half so he is making adjustments just not during the game. I think his biggest negatives are:
Offense
Stubbornness to not change
Recruiting high school talent
Lack of motivating his players

That is a pretty important list of four items your program should excel at in order to be a next level program.

Is that a list you believe gets improved upon this year or in the future?

 

[SHUMatt]

That is a pretty important list of four items your program should excel at in order to be a next level program.

Is that a list you believe gets improved upon this year or in the future?

Unfortunately no. Willard has done a nice job getting us to where we are but I believe he is too stubborn to make the changes that are needed to bring us to the next level.

There are a lot of things Willard has done positive for the program to bring us to where we are. The best of which is having our players excel in the classroom.

 

[Burnsly]

The key to effective offense in 2022 is having players able to beat their man off the dribble & force help. We only have 1 guy with that skill set & he hasn't played in the last 8 games.

 

[TheHall87]

You have to run plays for players like Harris and Jackson. Don't ask them to create their own shot. We don't make it a priority to screen for Harris ever. We've run a few things for Jackson here and there, of course the most memorable was the play to end the 1st half at MSG against St. John's. Jackson is also miscast at the 4, but that song falls on deaf ears.

I think your original observations are spot on as they almost always are. I mildly disagree with the above comment. I think we run more stuff for Harris, although that is a recent development. There are usually a couple of spots a night where he comes off a screen or curl and gets a good look.

The thing that is frustrating is that when the ball does move (and it does sometimes) our offense usually looks very good. I thought we did a nice job of creating good shots in the Villanova game. We moved the ball fairly well and even when the ball stuck, there seemed to be more purpose to it. Unfortunately, we got away from that when we needed baskets late.

 

[TRUE SHU FAN]

Too many role players overall, a center with improved but not reliable hands or movement, Rhoden takes risky shots which some he makes but with extensive minutes going cold and I could go on but either way, we don't have any alpha scorers either.

 

[radecicco]

We had an alpha scorer, unfortunately not any more.