The Question Now Becomes .

[hallgrad80]

How does Seton Hall respond to the dramatic moves St. John's has made to become a top tier Big East conference school. Perhaps the more compelling question is does Seton Hall have the will or desire to respond to the actions St. John's has made in the past several weeks. Over and over again we've seen schools that value athletic success take the steps necessary to achieve that success, whether it be hiring a big name coach , as Texas has done with Smart or Michigan football with Harbaugh or going out and hiring the best assistant coaches available , irrespective of the cost as St. John's has done. Just as the silence from SH speaks volumes so equally does maintaining the status quo when you have a failed program with failed leadership.

Sadly I would venture a guess that there will be no response from SH , that there will be the dwindling few on this Board who will proclaim that all is well and SH's continued position as a bottom tier , no tourney team will continue unabated.

 

[dcPirate]

Unfortunately I think we all know the answer already...

Problem is The Hall does not have any big time donors ala Vitamin Water guy to even help get anything remotely close to this done. To also be fair, The Hall has some all time greats (Mark Bryant, Dehere, Jerry Walker etc) but although I love them all, none of them has the "juice" of a Mullin hire. From what we have seen as well, The Hall will never be paying top assistants ~$400k/year either.

 

[Seton75]

While I agree with the tone of your post, SJU made a helluva splash when they hired Lavin. I think this move is better, close to perfect for SJU. But getting Lavin was major, and then watching him recruit that first recruiting class was major too. Imagine if Harkness et al stayed. Oh well. I fear a trip to the early 80s when my SJU fan friends gave me their tickets cause we weren't worth the trip to Alumni Hall (which is how I usually felt o n the subway home...). I remain hopeful that our young players are gonna figure it out and have a breakout.

 

[anon_4htvdezyfe7k9]

Originally posted by hallgrad80:
How does Seton Hall respond to the dramatic moves St. John's has made to become a top tier Big East conference school. Perhaps the more compelling question is does Seton Hall have the will or desire to respond to the actions St. John's has made in the past several weeks. Over and over again we've seen schools that value athletic success take the steps necessary to achieve that success, whether it be hiring a big name coach , as Texas has done with Smart or Michigan football with Harbaugh or going out and hiring the best assistant coaches available , irrespective of the cost as St. John's has done. Just as the silence from SH speaks volumes so equally does maintaining the status quo when you have a failed program with failed leadership.

Sadly I would venture a guess that there will be no response from SH , that there will be the dwindling few on this Board who will proclaim that all is well and SH's continued position as a bottom tier , no tourney team will continue unabated.

What can we do? We are locked into KW for at least one more year. The only possible silver lining is that Lyons is well aware of what St. John's has recently accomplished and is setting his sites on what to do a year from now. Unfortunately I've completely lost faith in him and the rest of the BOR, admin, or whoever else is making MBB decisions at SHU.

 

[The Crows Nest]

we have to come to face reality that the die is cast for us for 2015/16. I mean, really, at this point, what do you expect them to do. if they were going to make a change, that time has come and gone. it is not going to happen.

Sure, there might be a minor change to the staff....but even that is not certain....but in all likelihood it will have minimal impact on recruiting.

We are recruiting right now with a lame duck...one who does not have the support of the fan base, and has been given an ultimatum by the school.

And you thought recruiting at Seton Hall was hard on a GOOD day! This is a near impossible task.

Lets all hope for the best next season, because if next year is a flop.....we are facing many, many seasons as a bottom dweller in the conference.....

 

[sportsfantatic44]

The Seton Hall administration believes in Kevin Willard and our roster is still very young. That is their response. Seton Hall is all in with the new medical school with Hackensack. The men's basketball program is 2nd fiddle. I don't see it changing anytime soon.

 

[hallgrad80]

75
You're absolutely right that SJU made a splash with Lavin and they are making a splash with Mullin and that should tell you the value they place on success for their flagship program . I know many are adopting the policy of " well it's only one more year of Willard and then they'll be a change" and I will tell you that even if the on court results are the same this season Willard's departure is no sure thing.

This post was edited on 4/14 12:05 PM by hallgrad80

 

[bd98]

There is no response.

Be sure to renew your season tickets though.

 

[Save Continental]

Originally posted by sportsfantatic44:
The Seton Hall administration believes in Kevin Willard and our roster is still very young. That is their response.

You forgot one of the responses from the school; get those season ticket deposits in NOW for a chance to enter the Win em Wednesday contest!

 

[Halldan1]

The key now and yes it's only short term is Sterling Gibbs.

If he comes back we have a chance to be good. If he doesn't we could be talking disaster.

 

[sportsfantatic44]

Originally posted by Halldan1:
The key now and yes it's only short term is Sterling Gibbs.

If he comes back we have a chance to be good. If he doesn't we could be talking disaster.

I thought Gibbs already said that he was coming back a few weeks ago. Is there something else going on behind the scenes that we don't know about?

 

[Save Continental]

You should know by now that until a player steps on that court in October with a blue uniform on, not to count your chickens. We've all been conditioned.

 

[SPK145]

Originally posted by bd98:
There is no response.

Be sure to renew your season tickets though.

Actually, to quote them, "they're quite excited" about asking you to re-up while the Titanic that is the Seton Hall mens basketball program sinks.

They have to put a positive spin on things but that "excited" comment just came across to me as tone deaf and clueless. I shouldn't have been surprised.

 

[knowknow456]

Originally posted by SPK145:

Actually, to quote them, "they're quite excited" about asking you to re-up while the Titanic that is the Seton Hall mens basketball program sinks.

They have to put a positive spin on things but that "excited" comment just came across to me as tone deaf and clueless. I shouldn't have been surprised.

For those that are interested - following is the exact quote from the newsletter.



We have a very loyal men's basketball season ticket holder base, and we're excited to announce that season ticket renewals will take place in the month of May, when we will be introducing Win it Wednesdays. We will have prizes each week for fans who renew their men's basketball season tickets, and the sooner you renew, the more chances you'll have to win one of the grand prizes that will be awarded each Wednesday in the month of May.



Last season, we averaged 7,998 fans, our highest average attendance since moving into the Prudential Center, and with a talented Pirates team coming back next season, we look forward to raising that number next season with your support!



Be on the lookout for more information on season ticket renewals later this month.

April Newsletter

 

[donnie_baseball]

Originally posted by sportsfantatic44:

Originally posted by Halldan1:
The key now and yes it's only short term is Sterling Gibbs.

If he comes back we have a chance to be good. If he doesn't we could be talking disaster.

I thought Gibbs already said that he was coming back a few weeks ago. Is there something else going on behind the scenes that we don't know about?

With your non-stop littany of doomsday scenarios, it's amazing this one got by you.

 

[Piratz]

Originally posted by hallgrad80:
How does Seton Hall respond to the dramatic moves St. John's has made to become a top tier Big East conference school. Perhaps the more compelling question is does Seton Hall have the will or desire to respond to the actions St. John's has made in the past several weeks. Over and over again we've seen schools that value athletic success take the steps necessary to achieve that success, whether it be hiring a big name coach , as Texas has done with Smart or Michigan football with Harbaugh or going out and hiring the best assistant coaches available , irrespective of the cost as St. John's has done. Just as the silence from SH speaks volumes so equally does maintaining the status quo when you have a failed program with failed leadership.

Sadly I would venture a guess that there will be no response from SH , that there will be the dwindling few on this Board who will proclaim that all is well and SH's continued position as a bottom tier , no tourney team will continue unabated.

There will be no response or new moves. They feel they have their guy (Willard) and a young nucleus that will be succesful with their guy.

We are Willard and the current roster. That's it. Nothing new is going to happen.

 

[garyshu71]

Originally posted by sportsfantatic44:

Originally posted by Halldan1:
The key now and yes it's only short term is Sterling Gibbs.

If he comes back we have a chance to be good. If he doesn't we could be talking disaster.

I thought Gibbs already said that he was coming back a few weeks ago. Is there something else going on behind the scenes that we don't know about?


He could go to Europe and make some great money. He could stay in school and play at another university. Maybe he accidently gets a coaching job at the same school his brother signs on with. He could play for the up and coming Kevin Willard and his vaunted Pirates. What would you do?

 

[hallgrad80]

Pirate
And this revelation is based on what, 15 wins in our last 54 conference games or our epic collapse the last half of the season or the continued failure of the coach and players to get on the same page.

 

[Rimas]

Here is how we respond:

Winning OOC schedule against bad teams. Followed by epic collapse and .300 record in the Big East then Willard fired. Then probably botching up the coaching hire.

 

[garyshu71]

Originally posted by Piratz:

Originally posted by hallgrad80:
How does Seton Hall respond to the dramatic moves St. John's has made to become a top tier Big East conference school. Perhaps the more compelling question is does Seton Hall have the will or desire to respond to the actions St. John's has made in the past several weeks. Over and over again we've seen schools that value athletic success take the steps necessary to achieve that success, whether it be hiring a big name coach , as Texas has done with Smart or Michigan football with Harbaugh or going out and hiring the best assistant coaches available , irrespective of the cost as St. John's has done. Just as the silence from SH speaks volumes so equally does maintaining the status quo when you have a failed program with failed leadership.

Sadly I would venture a guess that there will be no response from SH , that there will be the dwindling few on this Board who will proclaim that all is well and SH's continued position as a bottom tier , no tourney team will continue unabated.

There will be no response or new moves. They feel they have their guy (Willard) and a young nucleus that will be succesful with their guy.

We are Willard and the current roster. That's it. Nothing new is going to happen.

I know they don't think Willard is their guy. they believe we are all stuck with him together. If Seton Hall was a rich school he'd be gone. But if Seton Hall was a rich school he wouldn't be here in the first place. Comparing what Texas and Michigan can do to Seton Hall's situation is pointless.

 

[BayonneRay]

SPK - I'm sure that the quote from the AD's newsletter was the edited version. The original version probably mentioned that SHU is stuck with this head coach and we are not optimistic about the upcoming basketball season. The AD's advice is to not buy any tickets whether season, small package or game and not support the student athletes on the court. But since we have to sell the tickets or I would lose my job, a special arrangement will be made with the archbishop from Newark that will give a special dispensation from time serving in purgatory for all ticket purchasers, since watching SHU men's basketball next year will serve as your purgatory on earth.

The above version is a satiric version and meant to be taken that way.

 

[HALL85]

SJU??? As lame a decision Depaul made to rehire Dave Leito, even THEY are light years ahead of us. We are stuck with a Dunce for another year, followed by a BOR/Administration/AD that will be charged to find his replacement who by the way, threw money around like drunken sailors for on an insane buy-out for someone that hadn't accomplished a thing.

Yeah, I feel optimistic now....

 

[Vegas pj]

Originally posted by Halldan1:
The key now and yes it's only short term is Sterling Gibbs.

If he comes back we have a chance to be good. If he doesn't we could be talking disaster.

Better get the Red Cross Disaster Reief Fund on speed dial!

 

[SHUisNJsTeam]

Originally posted by dcPirate:

Problem is The Hall does not have any big time donors ala Vitamin Water guy to even help get anything remotely close to this done.

No, I'm sure we have big money alum out there who could help but the problem is Seton Hall hasn't deemed it necessary to cultivate those relationships since Brennam and friends went to jail. That's over a generation of ignored alums. Does anyone know what is being done to rectify this? Relationships like this take time to develop but it doesn't seem like anyone in power to do so is even trying.

 

[SPK145]

Originally posted by BayonneRay:

SPK - I'm sure that the quote from the AD's newsletter was the edited version. The original version probably mentioned that SHU is stuck with this head coach and we are not optimistic about the upcoming basketball season. The AD's advice is to not buy any tickets whether season, small package or game and not support the student athletes on the court. But since we have to sell the tickets or I would lose my job, a special arrangement will be made with the archbishop from Newark that will give a special dispensation from time serving in purgatory for all ticket purchasers, since watching SHU men's basketball next year will serve as your purgatory on earth.

You're too negative, LOL.

 

[Pirate6711]

Originally posted by SHUisNJsTeam:

Originally posted by dcPirate:

Problem is The Hall does not have any big time donors ala Vitamin Water guy to even help get anything remotely close to this done.

No, I'm sure we have big money alum out there who could help but the problem is Seton Hall hasn't deemed it necessary to cultivate those relationships since Brennam and friends went to jail. That's over a generation of ignored alums. Does anyone know what is being done to rectify this? Relationships like this take time to develop but it doesn't seem like anyone in power to do so is even trying.

There's a lot being done to reach out to alumni. The alumni and annual fund offices have been strengthened a lot over the last two or three years. A lot of people from outside of Seton Hall have been brought in to develop strategy and new relationships. In the last couple years, new alumni chapters have popped up all over the country and I've had more people than I can remember say that it was the first time or it had been a long time since they were contacted by Seton Hall. Even in D.C., a city where there has always been good alumni support, there were more people at the pregame party than I've ever seen. I've been to every SHU game at Georgetown since 2007 and the crowd at this year's pregame event (for a meaningless game at the end of a terrible season) blew all of the others out of the water.

You keep on saying, "I'm sure we have big money alum (sic) out there" and "We need to find our Boone Pickens," with no facts to back that up. I know that our alumni and annual fund offices have relationships with the wealthiest alumni. SHU falls into the category of about 99.998% of schools in this country that don't have a billionaire alum to turn to, like St. John's and Oklahoma State do. You make it sound like our alumni base (a very small base) is filled with guys like Repole and Pickens, but you're very wrong about that. Even when guys like Brennan, Kozlowski, and Walsh weren't getting busted, SHU didn't have any alumni in the stratosphere of Repole and Pickens, but they did have more big fish than they have now and those big fish were donating dirty money.

 

[cernjSHU]

Originally posted by garyshu71:
I know they don't think Willard is their guy. they believe we are all stuck with him together. If Seton Hall was a rich school he'd be gone. But if Seton Hall was a rich school he wouldn't be here in the first place. Comparing what Texas and Michigan can do to Seton Hall's situation is pointless.

I am not so sure of this. It is my feeling that the Administration - Hobbs and Lyons genuinely think Willard is a very good coach and that outside influences have got in the way from WIllard being successful here, ie injuries, Gonzo mess. That is the reason they gave Willard a big extension. If members of the BOR are unhappy with Willard, then how come not make the move now?
I think this is Hobbs' baby and they will not make a move until Hobbs steps down and that means next year.

 

[Seton75]

I understand Hobbs stepping in when we hired the last coach. But I see no reason why he is involved in this decision anymore. I

 

[HALL28]

With the way last year went, I don't see why Gibbs would stay here. I can only assume winning programs would be lining up for his services for one year.

If you were Gibbs, what would you do? It seems like a sad reality that a much better option is going to present itself, if it hasn't already. I don't think he can pursue a post-grad transfer until he actually graduates, which I guess would be coming up in a month.

 

[SHUSource]

Originally posted by Seton75:

I understand Hobbs stepping in when we hired the last coach. But I see no reason why he is involved in this decision anymore.

None at all, especially since he was so involved in the previous hire.

 

[lwyrup]

These are our scenarios as I see it:

If Sterling comes back:

2015 - Willard is our coach and in spite of his inability to coach, we are a top 5 team in the Big East and a NCAA bubble team.
2016 - with no more incentive to stay and a low buyout, Willard either quits or Seton Hall fires him, Isaiah and/or Angel potentially goes pro and we are back at square one.

If Sterling does not come back:

2015 - Willard is our coach and because of his inability to coach, we are a middle of the pack to bottom feeding Big East team. We make the NIT.
2016 - with no more incentive to stay and a low buyout, Willard either quits or Seton Hall fires him, Isaiah and/or Angel potentially go pro and we are back at square one.

Regardless of the outcome of next season, we will end up in the same exact position. We have a coach that does not want to coach at Seton Hall and is only staying for the money and a fan base that does not want to invest in him (rightfully so). Assuming Sterling comes back, I would suggest fans sit back (from either the comfort of your own home or the Rock) and enjoy the season. We will be terrible in 2016.

 

[SPK145]

There is no low buyout. Maybe a lower buyout but certainly not low.

 

[Seton75]

I wonder if the guys who renegotiated this buyout write govt construction contracts in their spare time.

 

[knowknow456]

Originally posted by SPK145:
There is no low buyout. Maybe a lower buyout but certainly not low.

Are you able to reveal the new buy out numbers? Previously your understanding was $1.4/$850. Presumably you have new and more accurate information.

 

[HALL28]

Originally posted by Seton75:
I wonder if the guys who renegotiated this buyout write govt construction contracts in their spare time.

Actually I think their specialty would be no-show jobs.

 

[anon_4htvdezyfe7k9]

Originally posted by lwyrup:
These are our scenarios as I see it:

If Sterling comes back:

2015 - Willard is our coach and in spite of his inability to coach, we are a top 5 team in the Big East and a NCAA bubble team.
2016 - with no more incentive to stay and a low buyout, Willard either quits or Seton Hall fires him, Isaiah and/or Angel potentially goes pro and we are back at square one.

If Sterling does not come back:

2015 - Willard is our coach and because of his inability to coach, we are a middle of the pack to bottom feeding Big East team. We make the NIT.
2016 - with no more incentive to stay and a low buyout, Willard either quits or Seton Hall fires him, Isaiah and/or Angel potentially go pro and we are back at square one.

Regardless of the outcome of next season, we will end up in the same exact position. We have a coach that does not want to coach at Seton Hall and is only staying for the money and a fan base that does not want to invest in him (rightfully so). Assuming Sterling comes back, I would suggest fans sit back (from either the comfort of your own home or the Rock) and enjoy the season. We will be terrible in 2016.

The buyout has been reported to be a pretty substantial #, and I believe Willard is signed through the '16-'17 season (at least, who the hell knows) so he has plented of incentive not to quit.