The Roster

[SPK145]

Seems I, as well as others, seriously overrated the talent on this team.

I was thinking, who is really Big East quality on this roster as of today? It can, and hopefully will, change over time as it's not good.

Big East Starter (would play 25 mins + on a decent Big East team)
Chaunce Jenkins
Isaiah Coleman

Big East Quality Depth (would play 10-15 mins on a decent Big East team)
Addae-Wusu
Middleton

Not Big East Quality At This Time (would not play 10-15 mins on a decent Big East team)
Toumi
Felton (getting there though)
Aligbe
Yalden
Tubek
Okorafor
Erheriene
Dual
Harmon

Thoughts?

 

[Halldan1]

Individually I don't think anyone would argue with you.

That said, with Sha because of his defensive philosophy the whole is (and has to be) greater than the sum of its parts. To date and it's only been 7 games I think we have to give this squad more time. Just look to our Big East neighbor to the north. Kadary Richmond was not only one of the best players in the conference last season but might have been the most valuable. Now through 7 games he has been a shadow of that. Do I think that will change? Absolutely. Just like I think what Steve posted above will change too.

If you want to profile the players to date....hard to argue the above. It's spot on but I think doing this in a month from now would be better served.

 

[chickenbox]

Seems I, as well as others, seriously overrated the talent on this team.

I was thinking, who is really Big East quality on this roster as of today? It can, and hopefully will, change over time as it's not good.

Big East Starter (would play 25 mins + on a decent Big East team)
Chaunce Jenkins
Isaiah Coleman

Big East Quality Depth (would play 10-15 mins on a decent Big East team)
Addae-Wusu
Middleton

Not Big East Quality At This Time (would not play 10-15 mins on a decent Big East team)
Toumi
Felton (getting there though)
Aligbe
Yalden
Tubek
Okorafor
Erheriene
Dual
Harmon

Thoughts?

Some of the tier-three guys could be in tier two depending on the construction of the particular team.

Most hopeful about Middleton and Felton. And we'll need one of the bigs to round into serviceable form. They've been invisible

 

[Section112]

Spot on Steve. This roster is going to be hard to watch. The coaches have their work cut out for them. We have athletic guys but their basketball skills and IQ are lacking in a big way.

Develop Felton and Dual as your PGs. I think after 5 or 6 games Felton will emerge as your best ballhandler and then you have to live with the freshman mistakes he will make. It's the best thing for the programs future.

Develop Middleton too. He makes a lot of mistakes but he can score and his defense is getting better.

Toumi is the player I'm most disappointed in from a quality of player perspective. Kid has talent but as a 5th year senior, he can't shoot a FT and he has no basketball IQ. Every time he puts the ball on the floor I look forward to the turnover. And on D, Toumi does not move his feet and then tries to block the shot once the player gets by him. He's athletic - move your feet! And Aligbe has potential but he's a turnover machine too and can't seem to hit a layup and throws the ball away often. Hoping these two can improve and help our roster but it's tough having either of them on the floor end game because they are 50% FT shooters.

 

[MBF72]

Good analysis. The numbers in the not-ready-for-prime-time is daunting, esp. since we have not played anything close to a BE-like team yet.

I'd definitely shift Addae-Wusu up with the factor being " a decent.... team." On one he would could play to his strengths as he did much of last year. Middleton is just hanging on to the 10-15 minute group.

Our board gets so hyped when guys come to us from BC, Providence, Wisconsin, Ohio State. In retrospect, we should see if there is concern about them leaving those places. I suspect there is not.

 

[TheHall87]

Good analysis. The numbers in the not-ready-for-prime-time is daunting, esp. since we have not played anything close to a BE-like team yet.

I'd definitely shift Addae-Wusu up with the factor being " a decent.... team." On one he would could play to his strengths as he did much of last year. Middleton is just hanging on to the 10-15 minute group.

Our board gets so hyped when guys come to us from BC, Providence, Wisconsin, Ohio State. In retrospect, we should see if there is concern about them leaving those places. I suspect there is not.

I agree that DAW is closer to tier one than tier two. This is a fifth-year senior who has never averaged fewer than 20 minutes a game. Some people want him to be what he's not -- a scorer and point guard are two things that he isn't -- but he's a proven BE player.

On your last note, after watching Devin McGlockton for Vanderbilt on Friday, I think we grabbed the wrong sophomore forward from BC out of the transfer portal. the young man looks like a solid player. Yeah, I know, we probably couldn't afford him.

 

[hallgrad80]

SPK
Can’t argue with your assessment as what I see is a roster dominated by too many players who are athletic but lacking the basketball skills needed to succeed in the BE.

 

[HallLine69]

Pretty accurate analysis. Aligbe has been a disappointment. Absolutely zero touch around the basket. I have reached the point where I shudder when he gets the ball and starts to move. It’s either a turnover or an air ball from 5 feet. A real shame because his clip from the Beefsteak showed he is a mature impressive speaker.

 

[SHUSA]

idk if coleman and jenkins would get 25 mins on the top third big east teams

 

[HALL85]

I would agree with Steve on the current assessment.

The question for this season, is who can possibly jump a level by the end of this year. In order, I would rank.

Felton looks like he has the potential.
MIddleton can shoot and play defense, but he makes a lot of mistakes
Godswill and Yalden, only because they are freshman and missed last year.
And then Dual only because he has physical tools, but at some point you have to make a FG and your FT's and not turn the ball over.

 

[Fishjam]

No one is arguing the assesment you posted. Sha is unable to attract proven players who have the necessary BE skills, size & athleticism and have the mentality/toughness to succeed. Whether it's all NIL or other factors, it's a problem.

As we've said before, the players he brought in are a collection of decent low-D1 veterans (Chaunce, Toumi, Harmon) with flaws and guys who had high D1 grades out of HS but have struggled at that level and are looking for 2nd chances (Middleton, Dual, Aligbe, Okorafor, Gus). The 2 freshman have shown promise but are going to need development.

This is a development year. I won't say rebuilding because it's hard to rebuild in today's transfer world. And there is no advantage to tanking like pro sports. Hopefully you get some quality improvement out of your young group and are able to bring them back next year. Because that is the recipe for success with Sha. I have confidence in him that if he can keep a group together for 2 years he can get the most out of them. But is that a feasible expectation? Maybe not.

That then begs the question, what is the best approach for SH in this new landscape. If Sha could change his approach to play a more modern offense and bring in more skilled players from low levels would that work?

 

[JoePeppitone2012]

It's unfortunately harsh but true

 

[ivyhillparkk1963]

Way to early yet to assess IMHO
While I don't like many of the things I'm seeing there is hope.
Miami finished 8th what's their NIL compared to the Hall?

 

[Hall91]

Any chance at some level of success this year will be Shaheen’s ability to make this a sum of the parts team. Jenkins is the only consistent scorer on this team. You get flashes with others (ie. Coleman). Beyond that, not much besides a bunch of mid to high PPG contributors.

Team needs to defend its ass off. We’ll be vulnerable against any team that scores more than 60,

 

[Wolf11642]

There are some players at the bottom of that list who are woefully below Big East caliber. I see no world in which Gus Bus will ever be athletic enough to compete in the Big East

 

[itsacurse]

There are some players at the bottom of that list who are woefully below Big East caliber. I see no world in which Gus Bus will ever be athletic enough to compete in the Big East

i'll defer to wisconsin's eye for bigs

 

[JTSHU]

Seems I, as well as others, seriously overrated the talent on this team.

I was thinking, who is really Big East quality on this roster as of today? It can, and hopefully will, change over time as it's not good.

Big East Starter (would play 25 mins + on a decent Big East team)
Chaunce Jenkins
Isaiah Coleman

Big East Quality Depth (would play 10-15 mins on a decent Big East team)
Addae-Wusu
Middleton

Not Big East Quality At This Time (would not play 10-15 mins on a decent Big East team)
Toumi
Felton (getting there though)
Aligbe
Yalden
Tubek
Okorafor
Erheriene
Dual
Harmon

Thoughts?

Not saying anything but would some of these guys play better in a different system? Toumi maybe? Tubek has been coming on in limited minutes

 

[SPK145]

Way to early yet to assess IMHO
While I don't like many of the things I'm seeing there is hope.
Miami finished 8th what's their NIL compared to the Hall?

20% of the season is done, that's plenty of time to make an assessment as of today.

What does NIL have to do with this thread?

 

[Hall Is Life]

Spot on Steve. This roster is going to be hard to watch. The coaches have their work cut out for them. We have athletic guys but their basketball skills and IQ are lacking in a big way.

Develop Felton and Dual as your PGs. I think after 5 or 6 games Felton will emerge as your best ballhandler and then you have to live with the freshman mistakes he will make. It's the best thing for the programs future.

Develop Middleton too. He makes a lot of mistakes but he can score and his defense is getting better.

Toumi is the player I'm most disappointed in from a quality of player perspective. Kid has talent but as a 5th year senior, he can't shoot a FT and he has no basketball IQ. Every time he puts the ball on the floor I look forward to the turnover. And on D, Toumi does not move his feet and then tries to block the shot once the player gets by him. He's athletic - move your feet! And Aligbe has potential but he's a turnover machine too and can't seem to hit a layup and throws the ball away often. Hoping these two can improve and help our roster but it's tough having either of them on the floor end game because they are 50% FT shooters.

I know you’re not talking about baby Mamu like that! Never saw Toumi play before he got here but as soon as the Mamu comparison got thrown out there, I knew we were set up for disappointment.

 

[Burnsly]

Toumi has been disappointing to date but there are a few aspects of his game that could help us if used properly. He has a decent stroke from 3, can rebound & is an exceptional ball handler for a guy his size. His foul shooting is horrendous however & many of his passes are telegraphed. On the flip side, that one handed bounce pass to Coleman was fantastic. If used correctly & properly coached he could definitely help us on offense. Defense is a different story.

 

[Hall Berry]

Always appreciate your insight, SPK! Good stuff. And after reading Burnsly's post, I have to agree with much of what he said. Toumi, for me, is the player that can most likely move up to the DAW/Middleton group. His foul shooting is atrocious but there is something there with him that I agree "could definitely help us on offense".

The biggest disappointed for me is Aligbe, who I thought would be higher up on the list then where SPK (rightfully) has him now. My goodness, he is nothing short of a bricklayer. Is he pressing? Even his layups/putbacks are cringeworthy.

There have been moments when I have been impressed with some of the work of Tubek and Okorafor, which is perhaps the case because of relatively low expectations. And like most of us on this board, I've seen some promise from Erheriene and Felton too.

One of the problems is if you look at the top four players on the SPK list, they all play the same position (2/3).

As the calendar turns to December, I would think that we will need to start seeing some real player improvement/development (not saying that it's not possible) to avoid the disastrous season that many here are worried about. I know Sha basically told us to R-E-L-A-X a few games ago but goodness gracious, Coach, we do have eyes! As Yogi Berra said, it's getting late early.

 

[HallBall02]

Seems I, as well as others, seriously overrated the talent on this team.

I was thinking, who is really Big East quality on this roster as of today? It can, and hopefully will, change over time as it's not good.

Big East Starter (would play 25 mins + on a decent Big East team)
Chaunce Jenkins
Isaiah Coleman

Big East Quality Depth (would play 10-15 mins on a decent Big East team)
Addae-Wusu
Middleton

Not Big East Quality At This Time (would not play 10-15 mins on a decent Big East team)
Toumi
Felton (getting there though)
Aligbe
Yalden
Tubek
Okorafor
Erheriene
Dual
Harmon

Thoughts?

I think Okorafor and Dual should be on big east quality depth level solely based on the elite defense they can bring. Okorafor and Dual, without their medical issues (and Dual playing less point🙄, could have had very different seasons up to this point right now.

Same argument for Toumi moving up to big east depth level… bc of his offensive production per the minutes he plays esp when not at center.

Middelton is not even a quality big east reserve yet. He has one decent game so far. Way too turnover prone and he hesitates way too much on taking open 3s. Like him as a 3 and D guy who is a spot shooter. It scares me when he dribbles.

Before the season started, I still remember posters putting Coleman at 3, Middleton at the 2 with Dual at point. I was thinking Coleman was the best dribbler of the lot and everything I saw from Middelton was a spot shooter from Ohio State.

 

[PROF Ed]

What would have been an analysis last year after we lost to Rutgers at home and were 6-4? Way to early to make a judgement as to who is a BE player. Looking at last year’s roster this early, maybe three of our players would have been considered BE players. How did last year work out? Trying to be realistic and optimistic at the same time.

 

[Piratz]

What would have been an analysis last year after we lost to Rutgers at home and were 6-4? Way to early to make a judgement as to who is a BE player. Looking at last year’s roster this early, maybe three of our players would have been considered BE players. How did last year work out? Trying to be realistic and optimistic at the same time.

That was acknowledged by SPK's original post. We're going to need improvement and combinations.

We're already seeing Sha come out of the 10-player dream by sticking with Coleman and Jenkins. That shouldn't change barring foul trouble, they are clearly our best players. I think this team desperately needs the following to have the type of improvement we'll need to be relevant by February from everywhere else.

1. Obviously PG.
2. Can our 3 centers combine to hold down that position so we don't have to use someone else there.
3. Aligbe is not THIS bad offensively from 2PT range. He and Toumi are complementary players at the 4. Neither are great, but need to be BE average.

That is a lot of improvement. More than just Dawes finding his way and the defense settling in.

 

[mspaeth]

Great post - Dual will move up, not sure about the others.

Hold teams to under 60, and hope for 40% from 3 and under 10 turnovers and at least 65% from the line.

That's the formula.

 

[Harty9]

Great post - Dual will move up, not sure about the others.

Hold teams to under 60, and hope for 40% from 3 and under 10 turnovers and at least 65% from the line.

That's the formula.

That should be doable.

 

[silkcitypirate]

That should be doable.

65% from the line is unacceptable to me .

 

[radecicco]

The two most important positions in college hoops are PG and center, exactly where our biggest problems are. Maybe center gets better but PG is really a season long concern IMO.

 

[SOpirate]

What is the deal with Harmon? Why has he literally gone missing and there hasn’t been a word about it? Really getting tired of the state secrets with this program. Nowhere near good enough to be this secretive.

 

[Hall Is Life]

What is the deal with Harmon? Why has he literally gone missing and there hasn’t been a word about it? Really getting tired of the state secrets with this program. Nowhere near good enough to be this secretive.

Get ready to get ridiculed for asking the question.

 

[SOpirate]

Get ready to get ridiculed for asking the question.

If it’s for personal reasons just say he’s taking a leave of absence. No need to get into specifics. But a player disappears and it’s treated like he never even existed? Fans deserve some sort of transparency. I don’t why that’s something to be ridiculed.

 

[Hall Is Life]

If it’s for personal reasons just say he’s taking a leave of absence. No need to get into specifics. But a player disappears and it’s treated like he never even existed? Fans deserve some sort of transparency. I don’t why that’s something to be ridiculed.

Oh I agree. But they will tell you it’s none of our business. But I appreciate you asking. Maybe you’ll get an answer. Probably not lol.

 

[radecicco]

Harmon’s not with the team. I can’t care less. When/if he’s back with the team, I’ll be interested. Rather worry about the guys that are on the team.

 

[Hall Is Life]

Harmon’s not with the team. I can’t care less. When/if he’s back with the team, I’ll be interested. Rather worry about the guys that are on the team.

Noble