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This is not sustainable

I mean we do need infrastructure. Roads bridges and tunnels are in bad condition if the politicians would use our taxes for that important stuff, instead if where the money does go, we wouldn't be needing a 3 trillion bill to address it.
 
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kniespolice said:
I mean we do need infrastructure. Roads bridges and tunnels are in bad condition if the politicians would use our taxes for that important stuff, instead if where the money does go, we wouldn't be needing a 3 trillion bill to address it.
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Well said. Let's spend money on things we actually need and stop wasting it on things we don't.
 
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Milton Friedman was the first economist to point out the significance of increasing the money supply significantly and the resulting increase on inflation.His first major paper studied the ante bellum south printing of money prior to the civil war and the runaway inflation that resulted.Once the velocity of money returns to pre pandemic levels we could be in for a significant risk of much higher inflation.The Fed can do a lot in open market transactions or we may have to consider monetization of the debt at least in part which would make further borrowing more costly.
 
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kniespolice said:
I mean we do need infrastructure. Roads bridges and tunnels are in bad condition if the politicians would use our taxes for that important stuff, instead if where the money does go, we wouldn't be needing a 3 trillion bill to address it.
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Both parties always agree to do infrastructure but it never gets done: why is that?
 
SHUSA said:
as a nation, our trains suck ass. just a note.
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They do, but pick your poison. Sweden has one of the best national rail systems in the world. You can get just about anywhere in a high rate of speed. They could do that because the country is relatively small and there are a handful of cities to connect. They also tax the crap out of automobiles and gas. Most families only on one car if that. Even their own auto makers (Saab) lose money in their own country.
 
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HALL85 said:
They do, but pick your poison. Sweden has one of the best national rail systems in the world. You can get just about anywhere in a high rate of speed. They could do that because the country is relatively small and there are a handful of cities to connect. They also tax the crap out of automobiles and gas. Most families only on one car if that. Even their own auto makers (Saab) lose money in their own country.
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its a good example, but largely they still suck. and a big problem is we probably will never invest in the infrastructure to make straight high speed trains a thing. who knows maybe the hyperloop takes off.

part of my thinks Amtrak basically controls the puppet strings of government and keeps them holding supreme power in the face of any innovation. amtrak workers basically retire like kings. its one of the oldest entities i think
 
Unions are the biggest impediment to getting infrastructure upgraded in a timely fashion.

For example, the Empire State Building was completed in a little over a year in 19-freaking-30. It took at least eight years to build One WTC 75-80 years later. Both built during recessions.
 
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shu09 said:
Unions are the biggest impediment to getting infrastructure upgraded in a timely fashion.

For example, the Empire State Building was completed in a little over a year in 19-freaking-30. It took at least eight years to build One WTC 75-80 years later. Both built during recessions.
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i mean labor back in the 30s was pretty terrible from what i know. they built the railroads pretty quickly too, for cheap!
 
The best money you can spend is on infrastructure. This is a huge job creator which creates secondary and tertiary jobs. Moreover, interest rates are low. Big spending for infrastructure is a must which has been neglected for far too long. The electrical grid, rail, road and bridges must all be upgraded. This is an investment which will pay big dividends. This is not just spending where there will not be a return.

Btw, unions are not the biggest impediment. That’s just wrong. Normally environmental factors and studies are what takes the time. It’s not union wages or workers who are the highest skilled workers.
 
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cernjSHU said:
Btw, unions are not the biggest impediment. That’s just wrong. Normally environmental factors and studies are what takes the time. It’s not union wages or workers who are the highest skilled workers.
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Agree with you on the benefits of infrastructure spending but not on this. Unions create major red tape (just like environmental studies). How many times do you drive by a highway project and see 5 guys standing around "supervising" and a couple guys actually doing the work? Very often in my experience.
 
shu09 said:
What does that have to do with anything? I've worked throughout the entire last year.
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I mean right now at 10:30 on a Wednesday. Is someone paying for your time right now as you talk on a message board about the inefficiencies of unions? Just seems to be a bit of irony there.
 
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Merge said:
I mean right now at 10:30 on a Wednesday. Is someone paying for your time right now as you talk on a message board about the inefficiencies of unions? Just seems to be a bit of irony there.
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I'm not in a union. I come on the board when I have free time. My work gets done on time, unlike union highway jobs.

Pretty low ball move considering you (and everyone else) are doing the same during a work day.
 
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shu09 said:
I'm not in a union. I come on the board when I have free time. My work gets done on time, unlike union highway jobs.

Pretty low ball move considering you (and everyone else) are doing the same during a work day.
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So that 10 seconds to one minute of the time that you see workers at the highway, you come to the conclusion that there are 5 guys hired to do the work of one for an entire workday? Really? Moreover, your argument was about the time it takes for something to get built. That has nothing to do with labor at all. You are coming from it with an anti-union agenda. Unions have nothing to do with red-tape or studies.

Building and doing infrastructure work in an already developed urban area is so much more difficult than doing it in an undeveloped area. You have more safety concerns., traffic concerns, watershed concerns, environmental impact. That is why it takes so much longer. It really has very little or nothing to do with labor. You can build an entire small city from nothing than doing some infrastructure project in an existing city. Plus, you just have political concerns as well like not closing down a road for an extended period of time to get work done. There are so many factors. Yes, some red tape needs to be cut for sure. But the Unions aren't the cause of that red tape. As a matter of fact, they just want to work and get paid.
 
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shu09 said:
I'm not in a union. I come on the board when I have free time. My work gets done on time, unlike union highway jobs.

Pretty low ball move considering you (and everyone else) are doing the same during a work day.
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Indeed, everyone here has wasted a fair amount of time here during working hours. That was my point.
 
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cernjSHU said:
So that 10 seconds to one minute of the time that you see workers at the highway, you come to the conclusion that there are 5 guys hired to do the work of one for an entire workday? Really? Moreover, your argument was about the time it takes for something to get built. That has nothing to do with labor at all. You are coming from it with an anti-union agenda. Unions have nothing to do with red-tape or studies.

Building and doing infrastructure work in an already developed urban area is so much more difficult than doing it in an undeveloped area. You have more safety concerns., traffic concerns, watershed concerns, environmental impact. That is why it takes so much longer. It really has very little or nothing to do with labor. You can build an entire small city from nothing than doing some infrastructure project in an existing city. Plus, you just have political concerns as well like not closing down a road for an extended period of time to get work done. There are so many factors. Yes, some red tape needs to be cut for sure. But the Unions aren't the cause of that red tape. As a matter of fact, they just want to work and get paid.
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I think the red tape has more to do with the state/city. California is so highly regulated that it takes 2-3X as long to build anything whether it's rural, suburban or city. Some states, regions, cities see the value in eliminating barriers and enabling faster development. It really comes down to the historic and current leadership rather than location.
 
cernjSHU said:
The best money you can spend is on infrastructure. This is a huge job creator which creates secondary and tertiary jobs. Moreover, interest rates are low. Big spending for infrastructure is a must which has been neglected for far too long. The electrical grid, rail, road and bridges must all be upgraded. This is an investment which will pay big dividends. This is not just spending where there will not be a return.
Click to expand...

Agreed, our infrastructure is in shambles. But shouldn't have done all this so-called COVID stimulus funding when most of it is not about COVID at all and most of the funds won't be spent in years. Also the current infrastructure deal on the table includes tons of stuff having no relation to infrastructure.

cernjSHU said:
Btw, unions are not the biggest impediment. That’s just wrong. Normally environmental factors and studies are what takes the time. It’s not union wages or workers who are the highest skilled workers.
Click to expand...

Unions are one of the impediments as well as the studies you referenced. The biggest impediment to me is all the wheeling and dealing to make sure everyone gets a piece of the pie for their own districts regardless of whether it's a truly needed infrastructure project, aka pork-barrel spending.
 
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cernjSHU said:
So that 10 seconds to one minute of the time that you see workers at the highway, you come to the conclusion that there are 5 guys hired to do the work of one for an entire workday? Really? Moreover, your argument was about the time it takes for something to get built. That has nothing to do with labor at all. You are coming from it with an anti-union agenda. Unions have nothing to do with red-tape or studies.

Building and doing infrastructure work in an already developed urban area is so much more difficult than doing it in an undeveloped area. You have more safety concerns., traffic concerns, watershed concerns, environmental impact. That is why it takes so much longer. It really has very little or nothing to do with labor. You can build an entire small city from nothing than doing some infrastructure project in an existing city. Plus, you just have political concerns as well like not closing down a road for an extended period of time to get work done. There are so many factors. Yes, some red tape needs to be cut for sure. But the Unions aren't the cause of that red tape. As a matter of fact, they just want to work and get paid.
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They definitely want to get paid, that's for sure. I'll give you that. The execs line their pockets.
 
Hallsome said:
Not a good point because you have no idea who does what, who their boss is, or if they’re retired, etc.
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Considering most here have posted that they are employed by someone else, I don't think it is much of a stretch to say that people here have wasted plenty of time on this board while they were being paid by someone else. I'm obviously including myself in that group.

Just not really sure how someone with thousands of posts here can judge others for not being efficient enough at work as if it is a union problem. I'm sure many of them would love to sit at a desk and talk about basketball and politics throughout the day.

Judge not... For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.
 
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Merge said:
Considering most here have posted that they are employed by someone else, I don't think it is much of a stretch to say that people here have wasted plenty of time on this board while they were being paid by someone else. I'm obviously including myself in that group.

Just not really sure how someone with thousands of posts here can judge others for not being efficient enough at work as if it is a union problem. I'm sure many of them would love to sit at a desk and talk about basketball and politics throughout the day.

Judge not... For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.
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Spot on. Judging construction guys who work in all kinds of conditions because they're members of a union, as if office workers productivity is perfect for 40 hours a week, is laughable.
 
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kniespolice said:
Spot on. Judging construction guys who work in all kinds of conditions because they're members of a union, as if office workers productivity is perfect for 40 hours a week, is laughable.
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So why does it take ages to complete these jobs? It's not their fault, they're just following orders from the people at the top of their corrupt unions.
 
Merge said:
Considering most here have posted that they are employed by someone else, I don't think it is much of a stretch to say that people here have wasted plenty of time on this board while they were being paid by someone else. I'm obviously including myself in that group.

Just not really sure how someone with thousands of posts here can judge others for not being efficient enough at work as if it is a union problem. I'm sure many of them would love to sit at a desk and talk about basketball and politics throughout the day.

Judge not... For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.
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As usual, you're missing the point. Instead you play the sympathetic bleeding heart card.
 
shu09 said:
So why does it take ages to complete these jobs? It's not their fault, they're just following orders from the people at the top of their corrupt unions.
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Red tape, environmental issues, etc.
 
shu09 said:
Are the government and the unions not in cahoots when it comes to setting these regulations?
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If they are, I’m guessing it’s pretty limited. We deal with nine different unions and there is very little if connection with any elected officials. We haven’t had anything approaching a strike in over 20 years so I would say our relationship with the union is fairly good. Although sometimes I think the negotiation should take place in the Bada Bing Club. Most we deal with don’t bother to draw on resources to negotiate on their employees behalf. They just throw stuff out there with very little comparison to base their demands.
 
kniespolice said:
I think you're being a little harsh on blue collar workers. Those guys work their ass off. I dont think they slack more than any other occupation.
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I'm not going after blue collar workers. I deal with them on a daily basis and have family who are. Many of them are good people who work very hard. I'm talking about the people who run the unions, although I've learned a lot from you all today. Maybe I am biased because when I think of unions I first think of the massively corrupt teachers unions. Hopefully not all unions are like that.
 
shu09 said:
I'm not going after blue collar workers. I deal with them on a daily basis and have family who are. Many of them are good people who work very hard. I'm talking about the people who run the unions, although I've learned a lot from you all today. Maybe I am biased because when I think of unions I first think of the massively corrupt teachers unions. Hopefully not all unions are like that.
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Agree some teachers unions are another story.
 
Merge said:
Considering most here have posted that they are employed by someone else, I don't think it is much of a stretch to say that people here have wasted plenty of time on this board while they were being paid by someone else. I'm obviously including myself in that group.

Just not really sure how someone with thousands of posts here can judge others for not being efficient enough at work as if it is a union problem. I'm sure many of them would love to sit at a desk and talk about basketball and politics throughout the day.

Judge not... For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.
Click to expand...
Huh? All I did was mention the flaw in your point. Strange use in last paragraph. Who in the chain isn’t making judgment, analyses, etc.
 
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