Thoughts to date?
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Dan, re-posting my thoughts from another thread (where I expect they will be buried, ie, this may be a better thread to post them into).
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First half last night was the same muddle as per previous.
Second half however was different. Looked like things were beginning to knit together, enough that I have a bit more optimistic take on what they can accomplish as a team.
The view from here is that the players are the ones who have to figure out what will work despite what has been put on the table for them to use.
In that light I see positives to take from the second half. Would very much like to see this carry forward in the next game.
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As discussed during the Booster Club Dinner, this team is a "work in progress" - and last night, I thought there was progress. So - I am hopeful.
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First half last night was the same muddle as per previous.
Second half however was different. Looked like things were beginning to knit together, enough that I have a bit more optimistic take on what they can accomplish as a team.
The view from here is that the players are the ones who have to figure out what will work despite what has been put on the table for them to use.
In that light I see positives to take from the second half. Would very much like to see this carry forward in the next game.
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As discussed during the Booster Club Dinner, this team is a "work in progress" - and last night, I thought there was progress. So - I am hopeful.
I agree with BluePirate. At this juncture of the season, Seton Hall has played one good half and that was the second half against Ole Miss. Whitehead became more of a facilitator during that game and the offense was buoyed by a good day shooting the three.
However, Ole Miss didn't do what Long Beach St did and that was double team Whitehead to get the ball out of his hands.
I think this team needs Singh. As he gets healthy, he needs more minutes and needs to be shooting. This will loosen up the defense from packing it in.
However, Ole Miss didn't do what Long Beach St did and that was double team Whitehead to get the ball out of his hands.
I think this team needs Singh. As he gets healthy, he needs more minutes and needs to be shooting. This will loosen up the defense from packing it in.
The game yesterday against Ole Miss - especially the second half - was by far the best this team has played.
Whitehead and Delgado played better yesterday, which we really need consistently. Both had rough starts. Whitehead's decision making in balancing between scorer and PG is critical and will be a work and progress. Way too many turnovers. Delgado needs to zero and find that motor. His hands and play has been soft this year.; too much dancing, not going up strong or shooting with assertiveness. He's not even the best big on the team through 5 games.
Those two are our guys. They need play like the All-Big East-caliber players they are.
I thought the team was primed and focused yesterday, probably because they were playing an SEC team that was in the NCAA Tournament last year. SHU shared the ball well, and looked like a team instead of everyone just moving around without purpose or attacking the rim like they're on a playground. First time. Carrington was able to pick up the slack and facilitate the ball, which is needed.
Overall it's pretty much what we thought. We're young and inconsistent, turnover prone, don't shoot it very well from the outside, and the guard play is learning on the job. The forwards have been a huge positive.
Defense is attitude and effort. Sometimes it's there, sometimes it's not. Work in progress.
Whitehead and Delgado played better yesterday, which we really need consistently. Both had rough starts. Whitehead's decision making in balancing between scorer and PG is critical and will be a work and progress. Way too many turnovers. Delgado needs to zero and find that motor. His hands and play has been soft this year.; too much dancing, not going up strong or shooting with assertiveness. He's not even the best big on the team through 5 games.
Those two are our guys. They need play like the All-Big East-caliber players they are.
I thought the team was primed and focused yesterday, probably because they were playing an SEC team that was in the NCAA Tournament last year. SHU shared the ball well, and looked like a team instead of everyone just moving around without purpose or attacking the rim like they're on a playground. First time. Carrington was able to pick up the slack and facilitate the ball, which is needed.
Overall it's pretty much what we thought. We're young and inconsistent, turnover prone, don't shoot it very well from the outside, and the guard play is learning on the job. The forwards have been a huge positive.
Defense is attitude and effort. Sometimes it's there, sometimes it's not. Work in progress.
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Isaiah had a good second half but it is not accurate to say that is cause he forgot about his own offense and facilitated. We broke away cause he made two threes in a row plus the 2 fts.
This team will rarely play a game that looks smooth and fundamentally sound but there's enough talent for this team to be competitive and win . The improvement of Ish and his contribution to date has been a plus and what we're seeing from Singh and Nzei will help this team win games and Gordon is giving us just about what we expected.
I do not have high expectations for this season based on what I've seen so far in spite of what may appear to be on paper a decent win against Ole Miss yesterday. Big East is looking pretty good so far. Not going to be easy for us to win games in conference play.
Will be interesting to see if we can pull off a home win against Georgia this weekend.
Will be interesting to see if we can pull off a home win against Georgia this weekend.
I'm in a very similar space with SPK on this. However, that said, I definitely saw in the one good half what it could look like.
So - why staying in the similar space? Because the original analysis I did said - "we are actually going to lose some we should not and win some we should not"! That's kind of what average or somewhat below average looks like. If they really improve and the sum of the parts is better than we collectively think, then they might be above average - a very pleasant surprise. I'm rooting for that to happen, but my expectation is "below average" is a more likely result.
I agree about the youth and the talent, however I just don't see us doing a lot of the little things that good teams do. We settle for good shot when a great shot is available. Our boxing out is non existent. We are very inconsistent. Some possessions you watch this team, great movement, great ball movement, touch passes, things look great. Then the next 3 possessions we shoot with 25 seconds left on the shot clock in a one on four situation. The talent is there to be good. The upside is there to do it. I'm not one of the people calling for a new head coach, but it appears the last person to box someone out in pirate blue was Grant Billmeier. Those little things will seperate the middle of the pack of the big east, which is where I think most of us see us.
I haven't changed my prediction/view yet as well. We played one good half thus far (and the most recent) and don't want to go overboard and project on that small sample. I think the UG and GW games will be good bell-weathers this coming week. We got a little giddy coming out of St. Thomas last year and then reality hit with the Wichita St. and UG trouncing's....then we got giddy again after Villanova and SJU and then the bottom fell out. Team is a work in progress, but there needs to be progress (not regress).
I liked the way we played in 2nd half of Ole Miss game. Definitely see improvement in Desi and Ish. Loved the way Willard put Ish on that star guard from Ole Miss. Looking forward to how we do vs Georgia, which is a better SEC team than Ole Miss.
Also, looks like we won't never see Desi and Veer on the floor at the same time. Sorta the mirror image of Desi and Mobley last year.
Also, looks like we won't never see Desi and Veer on the floor at the same time. Sorta the mirror image of Desi and Mobley last year.
I am curious how that will play out. Veer is going to be an extremely important part of the stretching the opponent's defense unless Gordon and Carrington step up their 3 point shooting. We need more than just Isaiah on the court as a 3 point threat.
It's still early but D-Rod is doing an awfully good job from range to date.
7-15 46.7%
IMHO, that one good half is what it would take to get to 8-10 in conference. Need better than that against better.
This is a game changer if Desi can shoot the 3 at a reasonable clip (not 46%, but low to mid 30's would be wonderful). He becomes a really difficult guard for the opposition.
Obviously shooting 7-15 from three is pretty good, but one thing that worries me a bit is the massive amount of arc on his shot. I know that having too much arc can cause inconsistencies with shooting the ball. Has anyone else noticed this?
No doubt - I picked 4-14 in conference in early October, which may either be prescient or obtuse - we shall see. I expect general horse-whipping for having made such a prediction, but might as well stick to it at this point and hope for better.
I believe that the team is growing with each game, even each half. We are absolutely talented but will we play unselfishly? Ish and Nzei are very talented and I will be surprised if they don't improve this year with experience. I think/hope that this year we will break from tradition and play our best ball in Feb/March.
Funny as I think the BE is not looking that good thus far based on the eye test to me.
GTown with a loss to Radford. Rebounded with nice win against Wis and a close one with Duke but still bad loss to Radford. Also lost to Maryland which stings for conference.
Xavier with nice win at Mich but there have been some bad losses in general.
The league got run out of the gym in the BIG 10/Big east challenge for most part. Marquette was been awful, Creighton got killed by Indiana. Providence struggled with Illinois. SJU barely beat Rutgers.
Based on the eye test, the conference seems down to me based off a year ago, especially in the middle of the pack. This will prove to be true IMO where we will see 4 and maybe just maybe 5 times in the tourney from the BE.
This is spot on and I share your observations about the early going. I like that we now have 3 guys in he paint that can get after it (Delgado,Sonogo & Nzei) On his worst day Delgado
is still a decent player. Sonogo really adds something on defense. I just loved the way Nzei played that 2nd half against Ole Miss. They do need to tighten up the interior defense to some degree.
The next phase is very important. Georgia and the GW are 2 good tests. I think they have a good chance against Georgia and we should expect a supportive SHU crowd. GW may be more problematic I suspect.
Dan, no question that you have to chalk alot of to you youth, but unfortunately our 2 top players (on paper) Whitehead and Delgado are somewhat assumed to be gone after this year, so you do get the feeling we need to maximize what we can while these 2 are here.
I did not see yesterday's game, but as far as player performances to date here is how I see it:
IW: About what I expected; averaging 16 to 18 per game, 5 to 6 assists. The key is shot selection and knowing when to dish. Super talent without question. NBA ready? All depends on who else he is competing with for a 1st round pick I suppose.
Delgado: A little disappointed, still tenacious on the boards but was hoping more on offense. But in all fairness to him, needs to get the ball more inside.
Carrington: About what is expected. wonder if he would flourish more as a scorer in a backcourt where IW was not the go to guy.
Gordon: Valuable because we're so shallow in the backcourt. D has been OK, offense not good. Would not want to rely on him as a starting PG or 2G which means in IW and/or Khadeen go down to injury we will struggle to score points.
Desi: Strong so far. Really think Desi has a tremendous upside in the SF role for remainder of time.
Sanogo: Pleasant surprise. Like his activeness and willingness to be a bit of a JYD for us at the 4. Keep it up.
I think I would grade everyone else as an incomplete so far. I guess Carter is not ready for Prime time as of yet.
A close loss at the #3 team in the country stings for the conference? Who cares that SJU barely beat Rutgers. Both teams would be lucky to win 3 games in their conference. Means nothing. Illinois is a projected middle of the pack team in the Big Ten, borderline NCAA team, and guess what Providence is?
Getting 4 teams in very solidly with a good shot at 5 is not a bad thing.
Getting 4 teams in very solidly with a good shot at 5 is not a bad thing.
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Providence 60-59 over Illinois
Nova 87-63 over Nebraska
Xavier 86-70 over Michigan
St John's 61-59 over Rutgers
Maryland 75-71 over Georgetown
Penn State 68-62 over DePaul
Indiana 86-65 over Creighton
Iowa 89-61 over Marquette
Right where most picked them to be at this point 4-1. Only difference is we lost to a team most thought we should have beaten, thank goodness for that one good half against a mediocre team or SH would be 3-2! Every year there is an excuse. This year it's "youth" apparently. Guess the mantra will soon be or maybe is "wait until next year".
At least SH has a women's team (with youth) that's ahead of where most thought it would be at this time.Wonder why?
At least SH has a women's team (with youth) that's ahead of where most thought it would be at this time.Wonder why?
Neither was a bad shot even though they were early. The first was in transition where nobody was set. The second shot, for all of those who just love the weave, if I'm not mistaken was a little weave action where Carrington handed the ball off to Whitehead and Whitehead was 3 feet behind the arc and his defender was at the free throw line.
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anon_4htvdezyfe7k9
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Obviously would have liked to have earned a chance against VA. Would have likely still led to a 2-1 record but with an RPI boost, but I'll take 4-1 at this stage of the season. As mentioned, the next 2 games are pretty big. I think I'd sign up for a split.
As for our overall season outlook, I don't have any more of an idea of what to expect than I did 2 weeks ago.
All in all, I'd guess a .500 conference record. NIT, but definitely not NCAA-bound from what I've seen so far. The next two games could change that a bit, but I'm still hung over from last February, so if we do outperform expectations, I won't get too excited until the calendar hits March.
- Ish, Gordon, and especially Desi at his more natural position, all have impressed me.
- KC and IW, about what I expected
- AD, a little disappointing, but I expect him to shake the rust off, and I understand he, and a couple others are dealing with minor injuries
- Veer - Haven't seen enough good or bad so far. He does seem to be a passionate player, and that can go a long way.
As for our overall season outlook, I don't have any more of an idea of what to expect than I did 2 weeks ago.
All in all, I'd guess a .500 conference record. NIT, but definitely not NCAA-bound from what I've seen so far. The next two games could change that a bit, but I'm still hung over from last February, so if we do outperform expectations, I won't get too excited until the calendar hits March.
- Ish, Gordon, and especially Desi at his more natural position, all have impressed me.
- KC and IW, about what I expected
- AD, a little disappointing, but I expect him to shake the rust off, and I understand he, and a couple others are dealing with minor injuries
- Veer - Haven't seen enough good or bad so far. He does seem to be a passionate player, and that can go a long way.
Shouldnt have said run out of the gym, but in general I do not think the BE has looked as strong, that was my point. Maybe I have just caught the wrong games, but those I have watched I was not as impressed as expected.
We haven't seen much of it yet, but Veer's stroke from outside the arc is a thing to admire. Beautiful form.
- Ish and Desi have impressed me.
- Whitehead and Gordon about what I expected.
- Carrington and Delgado have not impressed me yet, I expect better.
- Nzei is starting to look decent.
- Singh looks like a great spot-up shooter but he also looks lost to me in the rest of the game, particularly defensively.
- Anderson and Anthony I will invoke the Old Aluminum mantra of "If you can't say anything nice about them, don't say anythig at all."
- Whitehead and Gordon about what I expected.
- Carrington and Delgado have not impressed me yet, I expect better.
- Nzei is starting to look decent.
- Singh looks like a great spot-up shooter but he also looks lost to me in the rest of the game, particularly defensively.
- Anderson and Anthony I will invoke the Old Aluminum mantra of "If you can't say anything nice about them, don't say anythig at all."
I agree, he looks nervous handling the ball, and I think has a bit of a tough time creating his own shot. However, if left open or worked off a downscreen man can he shoot.
As an aside, whitehead has been great. I did notice he loves to leave his feet with the jump pass which has caused a couple of TO's but I think that will get better over time.
He also set the tone on defense which I think sparked him on offense as well. He has certainly shown glimpses of being top 5 player in conference, hopefully it continues.
Youth is a meaningless excuse in college hoops anymore. Tons of kids come out of high school and are immediately productive in college ball. God knows there are plenty of one and dones and two and dones.
IMHO, when youth becomes a deficit is when a coach fails to provide the necessary guidance and control. Some kids will always play like knuckleheads, but a good coach should be able to harness the raw skill and help the player be more productive.
I'm very encouraged by the play of Desi, Ish, and Nzei. IW is still finding his way, but the potential is there for him to be a dominating player. Delgado is finally starting to come around. Carrington is playing solid ball and expect that he will improve as well. My only criticism is that I wish that Carrington and IW would pass more often to Singh on the perimeter instead of taking tough shots.
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