Vaccine distribution

[HALL85]

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2021/0...s-and-federal-government-to-pick-up-the-pace/

Not sure what is going on with HHC in New York, but from what I can see vaccine inoculations seem to be more of people at the front of the line being hesitant.

Spoke to two different healthcare systems yesterday and each has developed specific criteria to prioritize administration. In PA, if a hospital does not use their initial shipment their next allocation is reduced. Two weeks in, and both systems are making vaccines available to other affiliated health organizations in the community.

One system has 25,000 employees and was allocated 7,000 doses. Do the math. If they are already going out to the community, most of their employees are opting out of the vaccine. The good news is that both have done an outstanding job of creating and implementing a distribution checklist internally and in the community. Both will exhaust their vaccine allocation. There has also been very good coordination amongst local health bureaus as well. Had two employees yesterday and they’re not in the 1A, B or C group that were vaccinated and didn’t have to wait. The one complaint I would have in PA is that the state health department really didn’t do a very good job communicating how distribution would work and didn’t respond to requests.

Interesting that Cuomo points to the ineptitude of distribution at the NYC Health and Hospitals corporation which is a government run system. And if you recall, when the pandemic started, it was the HHC hospitals that were on the national news every night where they had no PPE, people dying in the hallways and understaffed (Elmhurst and Jacobi hospitals). Irony is ironic.

 

[sami]

Not surprised the states are screwing this up royally. Is this something that should have been pushed down from OWS? Seems like we did a good job getting the vaccines created and shipped, but struggling to get them in the arms.

CNBC had an interview where the discussion was around whether or not employers should be able to mandate vaccinations. You can sure as shit bet that the school systems will for students and teachers, just like they do for the flu vaccine.

 

[NYShoreGuy]

Not surprised the states are screwing this up royally. Is this something that should have been pushed down from OWS? Seems like we did a good job getting the vaccines created and shipped, but struggling to get them in the arms.

CNBC had an interview where the discussion was around whether or not employers should be able to mandate vaccinations. You can sure as shit bet that the school systems will for students and teachers, just like they do for the flu vaccine.

I was a public school student in two states and no flu vaccine was ever a mandate

 

[shufan1993]

Not surprised the states are screwing this up royally. Is this something that should have been pushed down from OWS? Seems like we did a good job getting the vaccines created and shipped, but struggling to get them in the arms.

CNBC had an interview where the discussion was around whether or not employers should be able to mandate vaccinations. You can sure as shit bet that the school systems will for students and teachers, just like they do for the flu vaccine.

Flu shots mandated in schools? Huh?

 

[HALL85]

Not surprised the states are screwing this up royally. Is this something that should have been pushed down from OWS? Seems like we did a good job getting the vaccines created and shipped, but struggling to get them in the arms.

CNBC had an interview where the discussion was around whether or not employers should be able to mandate vaccinations. You can sure as shit bet that the school systems will for students and teachers, just like they do for the flu vaccine.

Good question and my answer is "I don't think so". There are not enough federal resources at the state level that would be able to have the knowledge and execute it effectively. I also think the states would have preferred to have the ability to control/command based on what they think is best. I believe that the Walgreens/CVS distribution mechanism was the result of OWS which put some national infrastructure in place to get the elderly/nursing homes patients protected.

Due to the nature of the product (freezing/refrigeration) and clinical resources, hospitals had to be the primary conduit for administration. They are also in the best position to vaccinate by priority of patient.

I attended a seminar a few weeks ago about whether an employer can mandate to their employees. You can, but as you can imagine, there are a number of legal considerations that you have to prepare for and manage exceptions (religious exclusions, etc.). I wouldn't say that states are screwing this up, although there are certain areas where it's been executed poorly (for instance the NYCHHC). The MSM is trying to turn this into another broad brush blame game when it looks like its more isolated and the bigger issue is the public embracing the vaccine IMO.

 

[sami]

I was a public school student in two states and no flu vaccine was ever a mandate

For ****’s sake, do you have a contrarian view to every post by every poster on this site?

Ok, fine, my school district mandates flu shots. I wonder if THEY, and any other who do, will mandate this. In MY child’s daycare, every childhood vaccination (MMR, etc) is mandatory. I wonder if Covid will be mandatory, but don’t give a shit about your school district.

 

[NYShoreGuy]

For ****’s sake, do you have a contrarian view to every post by every poster on this site?

Ok, fine, my school district mandates flu shots. I wonder if THEY, and any other who do, will mandate this. In MY child’s daycare, every childhood vaccination (MMR, etc) is mandatory. I wonder if Covid will be mandatory, but don’t give a shit about your school district.

How is this contratrian? I am not coming here saying dont take vaccinations, i am just stating having been part of the nyc public school system and a large NJ school district the flu vaccine was not a mandate in my range as a K to 12.

 

[Merge]

Is this something that should have been pushed down from OWS?

It seems that there was a role for additional logistical support especially considering that we seem to be at the peak (hopefully at least) of the pandemic. We have more people hospitalized with Covid around the country than at any point since it started. Recourses are thin in some states.

CNBC had an interview where the discussion was around whether or not employers should be able to mandate vaccinations.

I think it might make sense for industries where people are still working from home and you need a vaccine to return to the office early but I don't think most employers would want the legal issues with mandating the vaccine in order to work.

 

[HALL85]

It seems that there was a role for additional logistical support especially considering that we seem to be at the peak (hopefully at least) of the pandemic. We have more people hospitalized with Covid around the country than at any point since it started. Recourses are thin in some states.



I think it might make sense for industries where people are still working from home and you need a vaccine to return to the office early but I don't think most employers would want the legal issues with mandating the vaccine in order to work.

What federal logistical support? The vaccines made it to the hospitals via the distribution networks that were in place. The problems seem to mostly be confined to hospital systems that are not mobilized properly. Sending some desk jockey from Washington is not going to solve that.

 

[Section112]

Mandating a vaccine that only has emergency use authorization creates a lot of legal hurdles so many organizations will not mandate it as a result. Emergency use authorization is an important distinction meaning It has not completely gone through the full FDA approval process.

 

[Merge]

What federal logistical support? The vaccines made it to the hospitals via the distribution networks that were in place. The problems seem to mostly be confined to hospital systems that are not mobilized properly. Sending some desk jockey from Washington is not going to solve that.

Well for example, in October the Association of State and Territorial Health Officials and the Association of Immunization Managers requested 8.4 billion dollars to help with vaccine administration.

https://www.astho.org/Federal-Gover...IM-Funds-for-Vaccination-Distribution-Letter/

This was funded as a part of the most recent Covid relief bill.
The question from my view is, why was this not funded / coordinated earlier?

Shouldn't some of that funding have been in place prior to vaccine distribution?

 

[Section112]

Well for example, in October the Association of State and Territorial Health Officials and the Association of Immunization Managers requested 8.4 billion dollars to help with vaccine administration.

https://www.astho.org/Federal-Gover...IM-Funds-for-Vaccination-Distribution-Letter/

This was funded as a part of the most recent Covid relief bill.
The question from my view is, why was this not funded / coordinated earlier?

Shouldn't some of that funding have been in place prior to vaccine distribution?

Yes and it could have been if they passed a stimulus bill in October but it never passed because the powers that be didn't want that bill to actually pass. Our politicians at work.

 

[Merge]

Yes and it could have been if they passed a stimulus bill in October but it never passed because the powers that be didn't want that bill to actually pass. Our politicians at work.

I don't disagree. I just think trying to vaccinate hundreds of millions of people is a fairly massive undertaking and states, especially those that are currently harder hit need additional support.

 

[HALL85]

Yes and it could have been if they passed a stimulus bill in October but it never passed because the powers that be didn't want that bill to actually pass. Our politicians at work.

What he said. Nothing OWS could have impacted on this.

 

[HALL85]

I don't disagree. I just think trying to vaccinate hundreds of millions of people is a fairly massive undertaking and states, especially those that are currently harder hit need additional support.

But do you fix the problem by throwing money at incompetence. The vast majority of hospital systems are managing this well. Throwing more money at NY HHC would likely be a waste. If they can't do it, find a way to get the public to hospitals that can....need to act fast.

 

[seton1996]

How is this contratrian? I am not coming here saying dont take vaccinations, i am just stating having been part of the nyc public school system and a large NJ school district the flu vaccine was not a mandate in my range as a K to 12.

Requirements change all the time, usually requiring more vaccines.

As for Flu vaccine, believe both in NJ and NYC it is only required in daycares and pre schools, so kids under 5.

Both both states require certain vaccines to attend K-12 schools like Polio, measles, mumps, chickenpox and others.

 

[Section112]

Requirements change all the time, usually requiring more vaccines.

As for Flu vaccine, believe both in NJ and NYC it is only required in daycares and pre schools, so kids under 5.

Both both states require certain vaccines to attend K-12 schools like Polio, measles, mumps, chickenpox and others.

More and more hospitals and HC workers are required to get the flu vaccine each year.

 

[HALL85]

Embracing the vaccine has been a challenge thus far with healthcare workers. Less than 50% opting in at most local hospitals. In fact healthcare systems are scrambling to make them available to others in the community to keep their allocation. CVS/Walgreens at least locally are keeping up with long term care needs.

 

[HALL85]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/canada-slow-vaccine-rollout-covid-19-1.5862358

Contrast that with Canada. Even though they have a national health plan Canada is much like the US in that administration of healthcare is done at the province level, not nationally. Spoke to a colleague up there this week and they could have certainly used coordination of an OWS type strategy. Struggling from a distribution standpoint.

 

[anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0]

Embracing the vaccine has been a challenge thus far with healthcare workers. Less than 50% opting in at most local hospitals. In fact healthcare systems are scrambling to make them available to others in the community to keep their allocation. CVS/Walgreens at least locally are keeping up with long term care needs.

If the front line workers wont take them at least let the people like myself who will, so I can return to normal

 

[SHUSA]

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2021/0...s-and-federal-government-to-pick-up-the-pace/

Not sure what is going on with HHC in New York, but from what I can see vaccine inoculations seem to be more of people at the front of the line being hesitant.

Spoke to two different healthcare systems yesterday and each has developed specific criteria to prioritize administration. In PA, if a hospital does not use their initial shipment their next allocation is reduced. Two weeks in, and both systems are making vaccines available to other affiliated health organizations in the community.

One system has 25,000 employees and was allocated 7,000 doses. Do the math. If they are already going out to the community, most of their employees are opting out of the vaccine. The good news is that both have done an outstanding job of creating and implementing a distribution checklist internally and in the community. Both will exhaust their vaccine allocation. There has also been very good coordination amongst local health bureaus as well. Had two employees yesterday and they’re not in the 1A, B or C group that were vaccinated and didn’t have to wait. The one complaint I would have in PA is that the state health department really didn’t do a very good job communicating how distribution would work and didn’t respond to requests.

Interesting that Cuomo points to the ineptitude of distribution at the NYC Health and Hospitals corporation which is a government run system. And if you recall, when the pandemic started, it was the HHC hospitals that were on the national news every night where they had no PPE, people dying in the hallways and understaffed (Elmhurst and Jacobi hospitals). Irony is ironic.

in PA i know people who signed up for the vaccine below age 60 and other above age 60 who were put on a wait list. by that it seems like a but of a mess. also hear its going way too slow

 

[HALL85]

in PA i know people who signed up for the vaccine below age 60 and other above age 60 who were put on a wait list. by that it seems like a but of a mess. also hear its going way too slow

It’s really not.

 

[shu09]

Embracing the vaccine has been a challenge thus far with healthcare workers. Less than 50% opting in at most local hospitals. In fact healthcare systems are scrambling to make them available to others in the community to keep their allocation. CVS/Walgreens at least locally are keeping up with long term care needs.

What's the reason for it? IMO, it speaks volumes.

 

[HALL85]

What's the reason for it? IMO, it speaks volumes.

Not totally sure because there is no survey data at this point. Prevailing thought though is that just remember a large number of healthcare workers who are minorities, lower income (aides, environmental services, dietary, etc) that are generally less trusting of authority, and less likely to comply. To a lesser degree, I think there are also people that are waiting for the AstraZeneca and J&J vaccines as there was very little data on the mRNA technology being used by Pfizer and Moderna. For instance, I have heard nurses who are expecting to have children in the next few years claim they were not going to be vaccinated.

This was not unexpected as one hospital surveyed their employees over the past few months only a little over 50% said they would take the vaccine.And that’s a survey, so you would actually expect compliance to be much less than that. Not necessarily a bad thing, because hospitals have now been able to pivot and push the excess vaccine out to the community.

 

[ed odowd]

Well at least now with Dems in control of both senate,house,and White House we know who to blame .Wonder if Cuomo feels bad losing his scapegoat Trump to blame for all his pandemic failures.

 

[sami]

Well at least now with Dems in control of both senate,house,and White House we know who to blame .Wonder if Cuomo feels bad losing his scapegoat Trump to blame for all his pandemic failures.

Holy shit, are you really blaming something on Biden, who isn’t in power of anything right now? Who can do nothing but focus on transition and try to be ready for when he does take office? Guess you just got back from DC and turned the page.

Who knows if the “blue wave” will fix the vaccine distribution but they probably have to get into office first.

 

[Section112]

I think it is up to the states to distribute the vaccine. State health departments regulate and work with local health departments on issues like this. They are responsible for HC in each state in many ways. The Federal Govt should be assisting providing data and best practices for distribution and monitoring progress and revising those best practices based on what is working.

We have a real issue in our republic of blaming the Federal Govt for everything and that worsened under Trump. Some criticism was deserved like the bad leadership and messaging on the virus. But OWS did a great job IMO of helping speed up many things related to the vaccines. With all that said our political discord is not helping any of this at all. The President, Congress and Senate and the Governors should be laser focused on this issue only but they are not.

The States and Feds have to simply figure this out and partner more, stop pointing the finger at everyone else and get it done.

 

[HALL85]

I think it is up to the states to distribute the vaccine. State health departments regulate and work with local health departments on issues like this. They are responsible for HC in each state in many ways. The Federal Govt should be assisting providing data and best practices for distribution and monitoring progress and revising those best practices based on what is working.

We have a real issue in our republic of blaming the Federal Govt for everything and that worsened under Trump. Some criticism was deserved like the bad leadership and messaging on the virus. But OWS did a great job IMO of helping speed up many things related to the vaccines. With all that said our political discord is not helping any of this at all. The President, Congress and Senate and the Governors should be laser focused on this issue only but they are not.

The States and Feds have to simply figure this out and partner more, stop pointing the finger at everyone else and get it done.

Great summary. This is where we are at right now. It really is more of a state-by-state issue right now in terms of vaccinations. OWS helped speed the vaccines to market and created the infrastructure to make that happen working with Pfizer, Moderna, McKesson, CVS, Walgreens, etc. Hospitals are being used as the primary administration point under the guidance of each state who is setting priorities. If there is a problem in a state right now, the blame is on the state and the local health systems. There is really no way to blame Biden (or give him credit) going forward unless he implements something new to add value to OWS.

 

[Section112]

There was an interesting article today in the WSJ comparing where different countries were on distributing the vaccine per 100 citizens. It showed how Israel is leading the charge. They clearly have a much easier path as the country has the population of NYCity and does not have the geographical challenges the US has. But Netanyahu who is a pretty controversial guy has done a good job of reaching out to minority groups and religious leaders (Israeli and Arab) to try and enlist their help in encouraging people to agree to getting the vaccine. So far they have vaccinated approx 20% of their population which is the world's fastest rollout.

The US is the fastest country among large industrialized nations in rolling out the vaccine according to the article and based on the limited information out there (for instance we will never know what China is doing and some other communist or totalitarian regimes). We are ahead of all the countries in Europe at about 2.02% per 100 where most Euro countries are all over the board. Denmark and the UK are at about 1.96 per 100 and Italy is only at .98 per 100. The two doses it takes to roll-out the current approved vaccinations are a big logistical issue as well as our geographical challenges and in the case of Pfizer the cold temperature needed to store the vaccines. In spite of all the challenges we are doing OK comparably to other countries but still it is taking too long to get it out there.

I know in NJ the system NJ is putting in place has had huge technical issues - surprise surprise that a Govt contractor is not delivering. Hopefully this will improve and also with other one-shot vaccines coming that don't require the crazy low temp freezers for storage, the rate of vaccination should start increasing very soon. But you still have a lot of info out there on folks not knowing if they should take it or not. My 91 year old mother in law could have had it but she wants to wait a bit and see how things go. And she's made it this far and thankfully is very healthy so it's hard to argue with her.

 

[HALL85]

Good stuff. Will check out the WSJ article.