We're on to Wichita State

[Piratz]

Nice job today by the Pirates in taking care of St. Peter's and playing a good game.

The next game against Wichita State on Saturday afternoon at The Rock (national FOX network game) will be by far our biggest test yet, and on many levels. That team is back to being WSU with Van Fleet healthy. They hammered #25 Utah (KP #44) at home this weekend with their exceptional defense, forcing the Utes into the type of game they got us into last year. WSU won by 17.

Big opportunity and also a huge test given the way WSU plays. They are experienced and fundamentally sound. Basically they thrive in the areas we're weak especially in protecting the ball and turning the opponent over. We are really going to have to play smarter and tougher than we have all season.

Looking forward to it. Can we pack The Rock!?!?

 

[mjs428]

Piratz, must win game if we want the NCAA's?

 

[Seton75]

Piratz, must win game if we want the NCAA's?

Oh stop. If we win 12 be games we don't go? WSU is a huge test, but the season doesn't stop if we lose.

 

[Piratz]

Piratz, must win game if we want the NCAA's?

No, I don't think so. But definitely would be a great one to put in the bank for down the road if we turn out to be legit. I think it's sort of a "house money" game for this team. Good experience.

They are like a meat grinder. Really have to stay composed and avoid freaking out if a few plays go poorly. Can't start running around into defenders and trying to do too much. Rely on your teammates.

KW said he'll be "installing" more stuff for them for this game. Stay tuned for the grand unveiling.

 

[sportsfantatic44]

Oh stop. If we win 12 be games we don't go? WSU is a huge test, but the season doesn't stop if we lose.

Then what is the marquee win out of conference then? 2 middle of the road teams in the SEC? If you want to be considered a tourney team MUST beat Wichita. Our out of conference schedule is weak.

 

[Halldan1]

Composure, composure composure.

Wichita State is a high quality veteran team that doesn't make a lot of mistakes.

All the SHU players in the post game noted how much the match-up means to them. You can tell they are really looking forward to it.

Saw Desi leaving the court (he was not at the post game presser) and jokingly asked him where were the dunks? He said without thinking for a second..."I'm saving them for Saturday."

Clearly the game is on their minds.

 

[Seton75]

Then what is the marquee win out of conference then? 2 middle of the road teams in the SEC? If you want to be considered a tourney team MUST beat Wichita. Our out of conference schedule is weak.

Who says you need a marquee OOC win. It is preferable but can be worked around. If we beat a few of the the top be teams that is more important than Saturday imo.

 

[TheAdrinator]

Who says you need a marquee OOC win. It is preferable but can be worked around. If we beat a few of the the top be teams that is more important than Saturday imo.

Agreed. With four teams ranked and a very strong Georgetown, marquee wins aren't exactly a necessity. Of course, they are always welcomed, but if we split wins with two or three of the top teams and finish with a respectable record, I think we will be fine.

 

[sportsfantatic44]

We don't have a "true" road win vs. anybody good. That matters big time.

 

[Seton75]

We don't have a "true" road win vs. anybody good. That matters big time.

But the BE schedule is in front of us. It looks like we will be playing a bunch of games against ranked teams. A real good be performance can overcome alot. A wsu win would be huge, but it guarantees nothing either way.

 

[chickenbox]

Kept showing ads for this game on Fox during nfl coverage

 

[ncaaball2]

Piratz, must win game if we want the NCAA's?

Not a must game, but a huge game. Win this game and a 9-9 conference record has you on the bubble heading to MSG and 10-8 is looking real nice.
Lose this game and you are going to need to be 10-8 to be in the bubble conversation, and maybe needing 11 pre-BET wins to be in comfortable.

Or just as importantly, win this game and you are still in the conversation at 8-10 heading to msg.

Had you beat long beach and GW I would call this a house money game, but with those two blemishes and no other OOC wins of note, this game is huge.

 

[shu09]

We don't have a "true" road win vs. anybody good. That matters big time.

We've played two road games so far. Only one against a good team. We have nine Big East road games yet to play, seven of them against teams anywhere from decent to great. There are plenty of chances for big time road win or two or three.

 

[Seton75]

Not a must game, but a huge game. Win this game and a 9-9 conference record has you on the bubble heading to MSG and 10-8 is looking real nice.
Lose this game and you are going to need to be 10-8 to be in the bubble conversation, and maybe needing 11 pre-BET wins to be in comfortable.

Or just as importantly, win this game and you are still in the conversation at 8-10 heading to msg.

Had you beat long beach and GW I would call this a house money game, but with those two blemishes and no other OOC wins of note, this game is huge.

Yes, exactly. A huge game.

 

[halltheway]

If you are in step to go dancing...big wins in February makes a better statement than a win in December.
But of course, a Saturday win helps with tying the dance shoes..

 

[HALL85]

WSU is less about an NCAA bid at this point, and more about the progress this team has made. They are playing better and showing some good signs, but they need to begin to get some statement wins for confidence sake. Remember, that it was Gibbs who made the big shots in the marquee wins last year. At some point they need to break through and beat a ranked team.

 

[Hall91]

A real opportunity game this coming Saturday. Looking forward to it. Maybe one of the more meaningful regular season OOC games we've had in a long time.

 

[SOBO1]

Like others have pointed out, this would be a great feather in the cap type of game but not a must win. As of right now we will have 8 games against ranked teams. Plenty of opportunity for signature wins.

Also, I'm excited that this game is on Fox but the fan base must show up for this game. We cannot have 2,000 fans at this game. The school needs to promote this game and get butts in the seats!

 

[catholicman]

Perhaps we can send a bunch of Chipotle gift cards to Wichita State Shockers for their trip to NJ. Lol. (Boston College enjoyed their trip to Chipotle!)

 

[sportsfantatic44]

We've played two road games so far. Only one against a good team. We have nine Big East road games yet to play, seven of them against teams anywhere from decent to great. There are plenty of chances for big time road win or two or three.

We have been a horrendous road team under Willard. How many road wins can we really expect in the league? I really think this game vs. Wichita is a lot bigger (for tourney purposes) than many think. Will see.

 

[Bobbie Solo]

You do generally need a signature OOC win. The committee has said as much. Yes if you don't have one you can cancel it out with enormous wins in-conference, but come on guys...you really think this team is going to come up big in February to stay a bubble team? The Big East teams know us through and through and generally their scouting neutralizes us. Sneak a win Saturday if you want to keep the dream alive.

 

[catholicman]

How do the Shockers play on the road in a hostile environment? How many students can we expect Saturday? Finals should be done by then.

 

[Vegas pj]

How do the Shockers play on the road in a hostile environment? How many students can we expect Saturday? Finals should be done by then.

Considering their record over the past few years, I'd say they have done pretty well in hostile environments.

 

[shu09]

We have been a horrendous road team under Willard. How many road wins can we really expect in the league? I really think this game vs. Wichita is a lot bigger (for tourney purposes) than many think. Will see.

I don't get your logic. If you're questioning how many road wins we can get in the league (a valid point given Willard's history), then why does the Wichita State game even matter? If we don't win road games in the league, we're not going to the tournament whether we beat Wichita State or not.

All I'm saying is we have seven chances in league play for a good road win. If we get at least two of those, don't slip up at SJU/DePaul and take care of business at home (6-3 or better), we'll very likely be in the tournament no matter what happens this Saturday. That's a 4-5 league road record and 6-3 at home is probably all it would take to get in. Will we get those road wins? I have my doubts, but the opportunities are there.

 

[Piratz]

With the expansion of the Tournament and greater parity across the country, the Bubble teams resumes always have some holes.

If this team actually is on the Bubble in March and the only hole is lack of a knockout road win, I'll take it. They're going to have to win road games to get in contention anyway, and if that all falls into place and the only thing missing is a signature road win? I'll take my chances.

 

[Bud Boomer]

You do generally need a signature OOC win. The committee has said as much. Yes if you don't have one you can cancel it out with enormous wins in-conference, but come on guys...you really think this team is going to come up big in February to stay a bubble team? The Big East teams know us through and through and generally their scouting neutralizes us. Sneak a win Saturday if you want to keep the dream alive.

If last year is any indication, this statement really doesn't hold water for BE teams. St. John's was 10-8 in the league w/o a signature OOC win, and they were a 9 seed. Xavier was 9-9 in the league w/o a signature OOC win, and they were a 6 seed. There's so much top-to-bottom quality in this league that a 10-8 (or even 9-9) league record means you beat a number of high quality teams.

 

[Save Continental]

look at the resumes of some of the crap teams who sneak in the tournament. Some have pretty ugly OOC resumes.

Making the NCAA tournament is a nice accomplishment. For us its like climbimg Mount Everest. But all you have to do is play in a decent conference and be slightly above average in that conference, if that. Probably half our games will be against tournament worthy foes. We have the opportunity, unlike 2 years ago where you had to beat Nova or Creighton, otherwise any other win wasn't of much significance.

Beating Wichita would be real nice because it lessens the heavy lifting we'd have to do in conference to accumulate wins, not just because it happens to be a non-conference game.

 

[Seton75]

WSU is less about an NCAA bid at this point, and more about the progress this team has made. They are playing better and showing some good signs, but they need to begin to get some statement wins for confidence sake. Remember, that it was Gibbs who made the big shots in the marquee wins last year. At some point they need to break through and beat a ranked team.

Not sure I agree. Carrington made the big shots vs Nova and Isaiah made took the big charge vs GW. Sterling's shooting was awesome at times last year.

 

[Piratz]

Well, FWIW on December 14th...

http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2016/schedule/Seton-Hall

Seton Hall Pirates (8-2)
RPI #52

#245 Dartmouth
#174 Wagner
#91 Long Beach State
#261 Bradley
#152 Ole Miss
#59 Georgia
#9 at George Washington
#241 Rutgers
#275 Troy
#280 St. Peter's
---------------------------------
#45 Wichita State
#234 South Florida

 

[Piratefan2009]

If last year is any indication, this statement really doesn't hold water for BE teams. St. John's was 10-8 in the league w/o a signature OOC win, and they were a 9 seed. Xavier was 9-9 in the league w/o a signature OOC win, and they were a 6 seed. There's so much top-to-bottom quality in this league that a 10-8 (or even 9-9) league record means you beat a number of high quality teams.

I think your point lacks some context.

St John's had a Neutral court win vs. Minnesota (58) and a win at Syracuse (59). They also had two home wins against St. Mary's (77) and LBSU (142). With 0 bad losses. That is a much better OOC record than ours.

Their NC SOS: 215

Xavier is a much closer comparison to our situation. They had two top 150 losses in their OOC. They had Alabama (57) and Stephen F. Austin (40) wins at home (both better wins than our two so far. But their NC SOS was way stronger than ours. Right now our NC SOS is sitting at 280. That's going to be helped by WSU, but then hurt again by USF. In the end we played an easier OOC than either of the two teams last year that made it in.

Their NC SOS: 115

I think we need both a win on Saturday, and a 10-8 in conference to get to the tournament. That means Willard needs to overachieve (by at least a little) this year.

 

[Bobbie Solo]

X also went relatively far in the BET, right?

To use SJU as an example is a bad one. Everyone knew they had no business making the tourney, and acted accordingly in their game. That "team" last season was a hot mess. Probably the most unstructured high level team I've seen. What a joke.

 

[Bud Boomer]

I think your point lacks some context.

St John's had a Neutral court win vs. Minnesota (58) and a win at Syracuse (59). They also had two home wins against St. Mary's (77) and LBSU (142). With 0 bad losses. That is a much better OOC record than ours.

Their NC SOS: 215

Xavier is a much closer comparison to our situation. They had two top 150 losses in their OOC. They had Alabama (57) and Stephen F. Austin (40) wins at home (both better wins than our two so far. But their NC SOS was way stronger than ours. Right now our NC SOS is sitting at 280. That's going to be helped by WSU, but then hurt again by USF. In the end we played an easier OOC than either of the two teams last year that made it in.

Their NC SOS: 115

I think we need both a win on Saturday, and a 10-8 in conference to get to the tournament. That means Willard needs to overachieve (by at least a little) this year.

The post I responded to said that you generally need a marquee OOC win to make the tournament. I'm not sure how your post contradicts what I said.

I also don't see a material difference between St. John's OOC resume and ours. St. John's is probably a bit better, but they weren't even really on the bubble. They were a 9 seed. Ten wins in the BE means, at minimum, an additional 6 top 100 wins, and likely some top 50 (or better) wins sprinkled in. I'd be surprised if that resume doesn't stack up.

 

[Piratefan2009]

The post I responded to said that you generally need a marquee OOC win to make the tournament. I'm not sure how your post contradicts what I said.

I also don't see a material difference between St. John's OOC resume and ours. St. John's is probably a bit better, but they weren't even really on the bubble. They were a 9 seed. Ten wins in the BE means, at minimum, an additional 6 top 100 wins, and likely some top 50 (or better) wins sprinkled in. I'd be surprised if that resume doesn't stack up.

Is Syracuse away a marquee win? I would say it is pretty solid. Better than anything we have. But the context of the two OOC schedules I think makes the difference in the discussion of why they had a strong case for the committee.

Both in the stats (ours is NC SOS 280 right now and probably won't break their 215 from last season), and in the quality of wins (they had three top 100 wins, a top 150 win, and zero bad losses). That record reminds me a lot of Willard's second season.

If we win on Saturday I would be swayed that our OOC is similar to St. John's last season. If we lose, I don't think they are close. I also think it is very likely that either Georgia or Ole Miss will end up falling off, which will make our OOC win record look weaker.

To me that all equates out to Saturday's game being pivotal. Lose and we may have just 1 top 100 win in our OOC at end of season, as well as a bad loss to LBSU. Win and we have at least 2 top 100 wins (maybe a top 50 in WSU).

 

[Shuathelete]

Lets look at the flip side. If Wichita St loses to us, theyre most likely going to need to win their conference to make the dance... unless they get a free pass for being injured during most of their losses.

 

[TomD82]

Lets look at the flip side. If Wichita St loses to us, theyre most likely going to need to win their conference to make the dance... unless they get a free pass for being injured during most of their losses.

That is very possible and I asked the question that if they went 1-2 in the 3 most recent games including us would they need to win the MVC Tournament to get in? Would a team that is 0-5 v. Top 50 and 2-3 v. Top 100 assuming they don't roll the table in the MVC get an at large bid? Would the committee say OK your best player was injured early in the year we won't hold that against you? By beating UNLV and #25 Utah albeit both at home they have righted their ship. If they beat us and finish tied for regular season MVC with NIU, but get picked off in the semis of the MVC they are still in.

 

[Bobbie Solo]

they have arguabl the best guard combo in the country. And those guards are clutch players. Only guy who is more clutch is Angel Rodriguez imo. If their resume is halfway decent, they're getting in.

 

[garyshu71]

The idea that it will be OK to take an L on Saturday is silly. We have nothing meaningful to show in the OOC and thinking we'll do well enough in TBEC to overcome a loss to WSU at home is wishful thinking. As a bubble team , we need this win .

 

[HALL85]

The idea that it will be OK to take an L on Saturday is silly. We have nothing meaningful to show in the OOC and thinking we'll do well enough in TBEC to overcome a loss to WSU at home is wishful thinking. As a bubble team , we need this win .

+1. Losers mentality. It was ok to lose to LBS, it was okay to lose to GW...lose to WSU and the hill is steeper.

 

[statenman]

Any update on their players who were injured. I know their guard had s hamstring injury , but had another player weeks ago injured his neck diagnosed as a spinal cord concussion. I don't know if the player with the neck injury is any good or how far back to healthy he is.

 

[ncaaball2]

WSU is less about an NCAA bid at this point, and more about the progress this team has made. They are playing better and showing some good signs, but they need to begin to get some statement wins for confidence sake. Remember, that it was Gibbs who made the big shots in the marquee wins last year. At some point they need to break through and beat a ranked team.

I disagree. Beating Wichita is all about a NCAA tourney bid. Win this one and you have room for error and get in the conversation (not that the conversation matters at this point). Lose this one and you need to be stellar in conference.

Biggest game of the year for the hall. I am pulling for you.