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What will the charge be here?

NYShoreGuy said:
nypost.com

Shocking video shows NYC subway passenger putting unhinged man in deadly chokehold

Troubling video footage captures the moment a 30-year-old is knocked out by a wannabe hero straphanger and held in a chokehold until he dies on the F train.
nypost.com nypost.com
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Very fact sensitive. If the man was just being verbally aggressive, it is possible that the blonde man could face involuntary manslaughter charge of recklessly causing the man's death. Assuming of course that he died of being choke. For example, let's say the guy died of a heart attack as a a result of being held, then I do not see any way he can be charged.

It is a very defensible case if he gets charged. If the homeless guy even looked to punch someone, then self defense of others is a hell of a defense.
 
15 mins seems a bit excessive. nyc has a real problem with people like this on subways. ive been a part of many instances with threatning characters on the subway and sometimes you actually feel scared. itll be interesting to see where this nets out, but at some point you would think he would be released when he passes out
 
also my god how many times can this writer use "straphanger" my god
 
SHUSA said:
15 mins seems a bit excessive. nyc has a real problem with people like this on subways. ive been a part of many instances with threatning characters on the subway and sometimes you actually feel scared. itll be interesting to see where this nets out, but at some point you would think he would be released when he passes out
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15 minutes may seem excessive. But the problem with charging this guy is that how many people are sick of this type of behavior in the subway. While this may fit an involuntary manslaughter charge, I just don't see a jury convicting this guy. People are sick of being harassed on the subways. Realistically, I don't think you can get a conviction.
 
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cernjSHU said:
15 minutes may seem excessive. But the problem with charging this guy is that how many people are sick of this type of behavior in the subway. While this may fit an involuntary manslaughter charge, I just don't see a jury convicting this guy. People are sick of being harassed on the subways. Realistically, I don't think you can get a conviction.
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id agree. as my post said i had many experiences like this and think i would chalk it up to it being a crazy moment but the guy acted in good faith for the public.

but man 15 mins lol
 
cernjSHU said:
15 minutes may seem excessive. But the problem with charging this guy is that how many people are sick of this type of behavior in the subway. While this may fit an involuntary manslaughter charge, I just don't see a jury convicting this guy. People are sick of being harassed on the subways. Realistically, I don't think you can get a conviction.
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Assume you're the prosecutor here though, would you bring charges?

As much as I think the guy was acting in good faith, and I do not want to see him convicted (and wouldn't expect he would be) I'm not sure if a prosecutor can just let it slide?
 
Merge said:
Assume you're the prosecutor here though, would you bring charges?

As much as I think the guy was acting in good faith, and I do not want to see him convicted (and wouldn't expect he would be) I'm not sure if a prosecutor can just let it slide?
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Again it is very fact sensitive. What the homeless guy was doing prior to him being taken down and what he was saying is of paramount importance. If he appeared to be threatening people, then the initial takedown is warranted. If it wasn't threatening type of speech but just crazy talk, then the take down was not appropriate. And he can be charged. But this is something that could be pled down to a simple assault even though the consequences was death, those consequences were unintended. Moreover, I just don't think you can get a conviction in the end for an involuntary manslaughter charge even though under the law, it fits in the second situation.
 
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Mayor Adams takes the right tone with saying let the DA do the investigation and not jump to conclusions. On the other hand, AOC recklessly tweets out that this was murder. She really needs to be voted out.

This is a very difficult decision for the DA. Technically, it may fit a manslaughter charge, but I just don’t see how they get a conviction. Obviously three people saw this man as a possible threat to other passengers. I always try to look at it like who would I rather represent, the State or the defendant. In this case, I would rather represent the defendant.

The possible defendant in this case probably thought he was applying a sleeper hold. This has the marking of Bernie Goetz who shot 4 people in the subway in the 80’s. Charged with attempted murder, agg assault. He was found not guilty of everything except carrying an unlicensed gun.
 
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cernjSHU said:
Mayor Adams takes the right tone with saying let the DA do the investigation and not jump to conclusions. On the other hand, AOC recklessly tweets out that this was murder. She really needs to be voted out.

This is a very difficult decision for the DA. Technically, it may fit a manslaughter charge, but I just don’t see how they get a conviction. Obviously three people saw this man as a possible threat to other passengers. I always try to look at it like who would I rather represent, the State or the defendant. In this case, I would rather represent the defendant.

The possible defendant in this case probably thought he was applying a sleeper hold. This has the marking of Bernie Goetz who shot 4 people in the subway in the 80’s. Charged with attempted murder, agg assault. He was found not guilty of everything except carrying an unlicensed gun.
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I mean, he did kill the guy. Granted, the man should probably be in a mental institution, and could of harmed someone, but he is dead.

The loonies need to be in places that can treat them, not the streets.
 
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sussexcopirate said:
I mean, he did kill the guy. Granted, the man should probably be in a mental institution, and could of harmed someone, but he is dead.

The loonies need to be in places that can treat them, not the streets.
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Try that argument with the ACLU.

This is part of the problem today. These people are a threat to others, as well as to themselves by being out on the street. We should never go back to the days of Willowbrook on Staten Island, but clearly these people need to be off the streets.
 
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cernjSHU said:
Mayor Adams takes the right tone with saying let the DA do the investigation and not jump to conclusions. On the other hand, AOC recklessly tweets out that this was murder. She really needs to be voted out.

This is a very difficult decision for the DA. Technically, it may fit a manslaughter charge, but I just don’t see how they get a conviction. Obviously three people saw this man as a possible threat to other passengers. I always try to look at it like who would I rather represent, the State or the defendant. In this case, I would rather represent the defendant.

The possible defendant in this case probably thought he was applying a sleeper hold. This has the marking of Bernie Goetz who shot 4 people in the subway in the 80’s. Charged with attempted murder, agg assault. He was found not guilty of everything except carrying an unlicensed gun.
Click to expand...
Adams is doing a good job managing this while AOC and some of the other tweets from NYC politicians are just reprehensible. AOC, even Hokul should STFU.

The witnesses also chose not to do anything which I assume can be shown to support what Neely was doing. In those 15 minutes, it doesn’t appear they intervened or pleaded with him to release the hold. Another reason to lessen the charge?
 
Last edited:
NY law seems vague:

1. A person may, subject to the provisions of subdivision two, use physical force upon another person when and to the extent he or she reasonably believes such to be necessary to defend himself, herself or a third person from what he or she reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by such other person...

codes.findlaw.com

New York Consolidated Laws, Penal Law - PEN § 35.15 | FindLaw

New York Penal Law PEN NY PENAL Section 35.15. Read the code on FindLaw
codes.findlaw.com codes.findlaw.com

What is "reasonable belief " under these facts?
 
ed odowd said:
If marine was black no protests and no charges.
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On April 12 two black men shot and killed a white man in La. One of the men said they just wanted to see what it was like to kill someone and didn't want to kill someone who was hispanic or black. No national news reports, no protests, no White lives matter etc. The media obviously only wants to put out stories when people of color are victims and the actors are white. Black of black crime does not matter nor does black on white crime.
 
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Merge said:
In all seriousness though, why is that thought provoking?
Seems more like he's begging for attention than anything else.
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Years ago 18 year olds were starting families and building America, now they're trying to find a way to get drunk and high every weekend and that's continuing for most until their 25. Definitely the 18 year olds of today are much different than the 18 year olds of 50 and 75 years ago. But if you want to be fair, that would mean a 25 year old in todays world is still a minor because you can't have it both ways.
 
Merge said:
In all seriousness though, why is that thought provoking?
Seems more like he's begging for attention than anything else.
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It is thought-provoking. Recall seeing the test scores in high schools and colleges for civics and understanding how our government works are down dramatically.
 
SHUHoopsFan said:
Years ago 18 year olds were starting families and building America, now they're trying to find a way to get drunk and high every weekend and that's continuing for most until their 25. Definitely the 18 year olds of today are much different than the 18 year olds of 50 and 75 years ago.
Click to expand...

Every generation has said and will continue to say that same thing about younger generations to come for eternity.
 
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HALL85 said:
It is thought-provoking. Recall seeing the test scores in high schools and colleges for civics and understanding how our government works are down dramatically.
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Seems to be a tad bit of an overstatement there.

NAEP Civics: Civics Highlights 2022

NAEP Civics: Civics Highlights 2022
www.nationsreportcard.gov www.nationsreportcard.gov

From 150 in 1998 all the way to 150 in 2022. Maybe 2014 and 2018 were outlier years over the course of a long period of time where results have been fairly consistent?
 
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Merge said:
Seems to be a tad bit of an overstatement there.

NAEP Civics: Civics Highlights 2022

NAEP Civics: Civics Highlights 2022
www.nationsreportcard.gov www.nationsreportcard.gov

From 150 in 1998 all the way to 150 in 2022. Maybe 2014 and 2018 were outlier years over the course of a long period of time where results have been fairly consistent?
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https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/04/us/nations-report-card-us-history-civics/index.html

This was the story I was referring to.

The original article was about Penny, and I only mentioned Rasawanny as he donated $10K to his defense.
 
HALL85 said:
This was the story I was referring to.
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Right, that story was written about the NAEP scores which I linked above. Not really a major issue in civics compared to the last 24 years.

I just didn't see his suggestion as thought provoking as much as attention grabbing nonsense.
 
Merge said:
Right, that story was written about the NAEP scores which I linked above. Not really a major issue in civics compared to the last 24 years.

I just didn't see his suggestion as thought provoking as much as attention grabbing nonsense.
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Once again I only brought him up because of his donation to Penny’s defense.

I have heard him in several interviews and he has some interesting views and is articulate. Don’t think he will be a serious candidate but I’m willing to listen.
 
SHUHoopsFan said:
I'm not really sure we've ever had a generation who didn't want to go to work.
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Nice edit. The first post was way off.
Not sure where you're coming up with that either though. Prior to the pandemic, youth employment was higher than it has been in decades.

You're perception is not really grounded in reality.
fred.stlouisfed.org

Youth Unemployment Rate for the United States

Graph and download economic data for Youth Unemployment Rate for the United States (SLUEM1524ZSUSA) from 1991 to 2023 about 15 to 24 years, unemployment, rate, and USA.
fred.stlouisfed.org
 
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Merge said:
Nice edit. The first post was way off.
Not sure where you're coming up with that either though. Prior to the pandemic, youth employment was higher than it has been in decades.

You're perception is not really grounded in reality.
fred.stlouisfed.org

Youth Unemployment Rate for the United States

Graph and download economic data for Youth Unemployment Rate for the United States (SLUEM1524ZSUSA) from 1991 to 2023 about 15 to 24 years, unemployment, rate, and USA.
fred.stlouisfed.org
Click to expand...
Just because they’re employed doesn’t mean they want to go to work. If they could live off the government tomorrow they would. Modified socialism if they had the choice. If they couldn’t rig it for Joe and Hilary, Bernie would’ve won twice on that sales pitch and it’s not because the old timers love Bernie.
 
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