Where do we go from here?

[SnakeTom]

I do not think a season can be based on one game. Coming into the Big East schedule most of us would predict that our record at this point would be 2-2 which is what it is. I thought 9-9 would be a reasonable expectation and it still may be. Every team has a game where they play over their heads and also the reverse,. I was not happy at all with the performance yesterday by our players or the coach. To put it bluntly Creighton & Coach McDermott embarrassed us. Where do we go from here? I don't know. My question is which game was the aberration - Marquette or Creighton?

Hopefully our players will fight back and show that the aberration was yesterday.

Tom K

 

[Soyaqui]

good post Tom.

 

[hallgrad80]

The answer to your question is relatively simple Tom. You let the season play out, look at the results and if there's no significant improvement you find another coach.

 

[SnakeTom]

Absolutely agree Hallgrad. You let the season play out to its conclusion and then make the appropriate decisions. One game either way should never be a deciding factor.

TK

 

[HALL85]

I do not think a season can be based on one game. Coming into the Big East schedule most of us would predict that our record at this point would be 2-2 which is what it is. I thought 9-9 would be a reasonable expectation and it still may be. Every team has a game where they play over their heads and also the reverse,. I was not happy at all with the performance yesterday by our players or the coach. To put it bluntly Creighton & Coach McDermott embarrassed us. Where do we go from here? I don't know. My question is which game was the aberration - Marquette or Creighton?

Hopefully our players will fight back and show that the aberration was yesterday.

Tom K

Tom, you are right in that one game does not dictate the season but the most concerning thing is the turmoil that's reared its head over the past three games.

Has Willard lost control of yet another roster? Desi he steps out of line, the coach speaks to him privately, and the result is zippo. That's the biggest red flag one can see. We have three games coming up where we will be the underdog. We'll be lucky to win one of those games, but even worse, if the lack of control and effort continues to show up things will get ugly.

Don't confuse the record with the culture. We had over exceeded record-wise last year at the same time as well. All this hype about "a great bunch of kids" is not what we are seeing.

Willard needs to get his shit together immediately. And if there ever was a game where there needs to be a "must effort" it's next Saturday. I am more concerned about the coach fighting back than I am the players. We have no choice but to let the season play out but it's easy to see that we are at a tipping point.

 

[bd98]

Why do either Marquette or Creighton have to be an aberration? Marquette is not good, as evidenced by their near-death experience yesterday with a shorthanded, godawful St. John's team who very well may go winless in the league. Marquette is bad, perhaps Seton Hall is somewhat less bad, Seton Hall wins. Yesterday that bad Seton Hall team loses.

Marquette winning at Providence, now there's an aberration.

I admit I haven't watched a single second of Seton Hall basketball this season but from what I've read about them (pretty much just whatever you people here say) and what I've seen of their opponents the only aberration I see in the results so far is Wichita State. Play that game 10 more times I expect Wichita to win 9. Maybe 10.

 

[NYC Pirate]

I think talk about meltdowns and collapses is not an accurate portrayal of where
this SHU season is at this moment. Our fans tend to overstate every bump in the road
and after many years of losing it is to be expected. The season is exactly where it should be
from a record standpoint. I guess losing to Long Beach was a bit surprising. We showed fortitude with the Wichita St win and pounding Marquette on the road were highlights. Losing like that to Creighton is the low point so far.

This is what I see: This is clearly Kevin Willard's last stand. He has changed his tune and
it's going to be his way or the highway. He is a young man and still wants to have a coaching career after this year. It seems that people in his inner circle have advised him to take a more hardline approach. He's using the "Benching" tool to display to his team and outsiders that it's not the same old classroom. I also believe that he is trying to help these young men to become
better people and show them how the real world works outside of a basketball culture. Is he going a bit overboard? Not sure yet. He's gambling with individual games like Desi's DePaul benching and the Creighton second half to set a tone for the remainder of the season.

For me the it is still about the on-court basketball issues. Do we have enough ingredients to
cook up a successful dish? Many people say this a very talented team with more athleticism
than we have had in the past. I believe it's more athletic for sure, but is this a very talented team?

There are still too many players on this roster that have huge gaps in their individual games. You expect that in college as this is not the NBA. We are asking players to perform at positions that are not natural to them and against players that have those very skills that they don't possess. When you add into that the fact that this coach has a "very limited" offensive system and seems to be hung up on playing a halfcourt style it creates stagnation
and frustration. At that point they use their playground skills as a last resort. Sometimes it works and sometime it doesn't. When it doesn't some of the players are taking it back to the defensive side of the court.

So moving forward it's going to be a wait and see scenario. Would I be surprised if the beat Providence and then Villanova? No, but I could see us losing both games. My gut says we'll be in both games and be fortunate to pull one out. The track record is not good of course and we all know that, but it doesn't mean that this year can't be different.

Willard has sent his message to his team. Now it's on them to handle it with maturity. Even if
they act like model citizens it does not mean the other BigEast coaches aren't going to exploit the weaknesses on the court. That's my problem. Adjustments have to be made as much as that is possible. We need better ball handling, better spacing, keep the turnovers down, keep crashing the boards, way more focus at the free throwline, more productivity from the frontcourt players, better interior defense, play with a high level of intensity for each and every game. All teams have those issues, but Seton Hall's season rests on it.

 

[SnakeTom]

Why do either Marquette or Creighton have to be an aberration? Marquette is not good, as evidenced by their near-death experience yesterday with a shorthanded, godawful St. John's team who very well may go winless in the league. Marquette is bad, perhaps Seton Hall is somewhat less bad, Seton Hall wins. Yesterday that bad Seton Hall team loses.

Marquette winning at Providence, now there's an aberration.

I admit I haven't watched a single second of Seton Hall basketball this season but from what I've read about them (pretty much just whatever you people here say) and what I've seen of their opponents the only aberration I see in the results so far is Wichita State. Play that game 10 more times I expect Wichita to win 9. Maybe 10.

I disagree with your opinion that Marquette is a bad team. They have beaten both Wisconsin and Providence on the road. Yes at close call with St Johns but still a win. They are a freshman dominated team that will have its ups and downs but they are talented, and a BE road win is nothing to belittle. Their road wins are significant just as ours at Marquette was.

Tom K

 

[SPK145]

My question is which game was the aberration - Marquette or Creighton?

Both.

Review at the end of the season taking the entire season into account.

Put up or shut up.

 

[bd98]

I disagree with your opinion that Marquette is a bad team. They have beaten both Wisconsin and Providence on the road. Yes at close call with St Johns but still a win. They are a freshman dominated team that will have its ups and downs but they are talented, and a BE road win is nothing to belittle. Their road wins are significant just as ours at Marquette was.

Tom K

And lost at home to Belmont (110 RPI). Beat IUPUI (159 RPI) by 4 at home. Completely non-competitive vs. Iowa, again at home. Wisconsin is mediocre at best, headed for the NIT if they're lucky, beating them means nothing. Aside from Providence their only win of even remote significance is Arizona State (43 RPI). Other wins vs. RPI teams 128, 189, 267, 320, 333, 322, 309, 183. Bad team. Some good, young talent which allows for things like Providence to happen. But all in all...bad.

 

[Piratz]

It's still early. We're 2-2 and facing an incredibly difficult 3-game stretch now. We could not have picked a worse time to become Team Turmoil again. Sigh.

Let's see how they respond.

 

[SHUSource]

And lost at home to Belmont (110 RPI). Beat IUPUI (159 RPI) by 4 at home. Completely non-competitive vs. Iowa, again at home. Wisconsin is mediocre at best, headed for the NIT if they're lucky, beating them means nothing. Aside from Providence their only win of even remote significance is Arizona State (43 RPI). Other wins vs. RPI teams 128, 189, 267, 320, 333, 322, 309, 183. Bad team. Some good, young talent which allows for things like Providence to happen. But all in all...bad.

I wouldn't call them "bad." But "good" seems like an overstatement at this point, too. We won a league game there by 20, so I'll calm that a good win. But not a season-maker. I don't think we're headed anywhere anyway, but...

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

We go to Providence and play our asses off and come out of an empty Dunkin Donuts Center with a W.

 

[400SOAVE]

I agree with those who say that you have to wait until the end of the season to properly evaluate the team's performance.

If fans start going into full-blown attack mode it does not help the team or anything else.

There are still 14 Big East games to play and at least one BE Championship game. Let's hope the players will come together and do what they're capable of.

 

[TheBluePirate]

I agree with those who say that you have to wait until the end of the season to properly evaluate the team's performance.

If fans start going into full-blown attack mode it does not help the team or anything else.

There are still 14 Big East games to play and at least one BE Championship game. Let's hope the players will come together and do what they're capable of.

It most certainly does not help for us to go into attack mode.

But this is the sixth year of the same. A groan of pain is inescapable.

And with that, yes, we just have to ride it out the rest of the way.

 

[sportsfantatic44]

The next 3 games are crucial in where this season heads....at Providence, home Nova, at X. We have to find a way to win a game in this stretch. It won't be easy. We have a knack for beating Nova once a season so that might be the best chance to get 1. If we get swept and are 2-5 with 5 straight losses in the league then this season will most likely spin out of control again. We are just way to fragile to think we are gonna figure it out after 5 straight conference losses.

 

[Piratefan2009]

I agree with those who say that you have to wait until the end of the season to properly evaluate the team's performance.

If fans start going into full-blown attack mode it does not help the team or anything else.

There are still 14 Big East games to play and at least one BE Championship game. Let's hope the players will come together and do what they're capable of.

I have not been a fan of the Hall for as long as many on this board, but I've never been to a game where fans "came out in attack mode". Any time I've ever heard booing in the crowd or disrespect towards the coach were when the team flat out didn't look like they were trying. I do remember one game maybe two years ago when we were in the absolute depths (with Maayan as a point guard I think) that people in the crowd were booing and hollering at Willard, and that was because it didn't even look like we practiced or prepared for a game. We have better players now, but the offensive sets still look high school level.

If you are just talking about "attack mode" on this board, I'm not sure where else people are allowed to voice their opinion if not an online message board.

 

[HallX2]

Both.

Review at the end of the season taking the entire season into account.

Put up or shut up.

Bingo! SPK gets it square on the head

 

[knowknow456]

I guess I am in the minority but for the most part I have enjoyed this season (yesterday nonwithstadning). I have no idea if we are in the middle of yet another meltdown but for now I will simply wait it out. Nothing has really changed since last year. Willard still cannot control a locker room so even minor problems run the risk of spiraling out of control. Our star players are not "bad kids" in the traditional sense of the term but they are still immature. I am hoping that Willard, or Gordon or perhaps they themselves will figure it out sooner than later.

I do remain confused by the notion that Willard is on the hot seat. There is no indication from anyone in authority that Willard's job is in any serious jeopardy. Perhaps circumstances between now and March will change, but I have no evidence to suggest Willard will be fired at the end of the season.

 

[Piratz]

I do remain confused by the notion that Willard is on the hot seat. There is no indication from anyone in authority that Willard's job is in any serious jeopardy. Perhaps circumstances between now and March will change, but I have no evidence to suggest Willard will be fired at the end of the season.

I think that comes from you rarely ever see a coach in a big conference get this much time in this day and age. Five consecutive losing seasons is a lot of patience by any measure. They may be extremely patient and have a high value for whatever Willard does outside the game court, they may be buying into his leadership of this particular group of players, or perhaps there are financial reasons to justify such patience.

At some point you have to win though, no? If this ends up poorly, that's now 6 years. Wow.

I don't think there would be any indication of such, even if have the BOR are seething. Remember what happened with Louis Orr the summer before what proved to be his final season? That was terrible. You don't want.

 

[Vegas pj]

My question is which game was the aberration - Marquette or Creighton? Tom K

The true aberration is the perception by some that what's his name can coach or even motivate a team. Apparently he's fooled his old buddy whose now AD thanks, in part, to him. Paybacks to the fans is ;w)ell.

 

[SoCalBrett]

I have never been in the Williard camp. I would have made a move a long time ago. But, after saying that, you don't jump ship at this point in the season. From afar, he has actually done a better job this year.

My past criticism stems a lot from his recruiting and decision making on how to use scholarships (not having scholarships available by electing to use scholarships on marginal players - not naming names because they were and are currently part of our Pirate family). If he only found a true center to go along with Delgado and another quality point guard who was eligible this year, we would have an amazing team.

My advice to Pirate fans is be patient, root for this team and see what happens. The season is far from over. We still have a chance to make the tournament. Go Pirates!

 

[knowknow456]

I think that comes from you rarely ever see a coach in a big conference get this much time in this day and age. Five consecutive losing seasons is a lot of patience by any measure. They may be extremely patient and have a high value for whatever Willard does outside the game court, they may be buying into his leadership of this particular group of players, or perhaps there are financial reasons to justify such patience.

At some point you have to win though, no? If this ends up poorly, that's now 6 years. Wow.

I don't think there would be any indication of such, even if have the BOR are seething. Remember what happened with Louis Orr the summer before what proved to be his final season? That was terrible. You don't want.

I have a short memory so on the off chance we suddenly started winning a lot I would completely forgive the past five+ years as simply a cost of investment in the head coach. I have my doubts i will be so lucky. For all the talk about the weave sapping the players enthusiasm or the incessant clapping, the real real issue is his inability to control the locker room. There is no playbook to fix that. Either you get it or you don't.and we don't have many successes to point to in this area.

As far as Orr, yes i certainly remember the disgraceful way they treated him in his last year and I would never want that repeated. But after last year's meltdown I truly expected the AD to comment on the awful way we ended the season. I would have even accepted total BS like "we are disappointed in how the season ended but we will work hard to make next year our best year yet". Instead we got total silence from the AD and a ridiculous fluff piece on News 12 from Dean Hobbs, That tells me there is no serious momentum inside the administration to consider his removal, save some catastrophic end to the current season. Frankly I prefer that doesnt happen. So I wait for Saturday and hope we find a way to contain Dunn and Bentil and eke out a crazy win at the Dunk.

 

[Halldan1]

When we were 2-0 I noted my expectations were 9-9 and that has not changed.

This team's future should not be projected because of one game, either by blowing out Marquette on the road or being blown out by Creighton at home.

Great teams don't have those kind of ups and downs and in fact neither do really bad ones. But middle of the pack squads do and that's what we are IMO despite the overreaction to one bad game.

 

[pmulcahy96]

I agree, it's just one game. The team needs to get back to fundamentals such as defense and boxing out and sharing the ball on offense. As Dan noted regarding the Villanova game, I am very interested in seeing the composure of this team on Saturday especially on the offensive side of the ball. Hopefully they will come out with tenacity on the defensive end and on the boards.

On a side note, this off season the bigs definitely need to hit the weight room!

 

[TheBluePirate]

It is barely at all about the game.

This is like dismissing the lookouts for pointing at a little point of ice off the bow of the ship when this is the sixth passage through ice berg infested waters that have sunk the ship each previous time.

 

[Halldan1]

This is a different team. What happened in the past with other players is not an indicator of what will happen with this team. They will succeed or fail on their own. They will create their own path.

A week ago fans were talking about Dancing. Now after a bad loss many believe the season is over. Both are extremes. Most likely we'll finish somewhere in between. Maybe as I predicted, 9-9, which would put us on the bubble.

 

[TheBluePirate]

Dan, the last two games have entirely put into question that things are different. I admit that I was pretty much convinced that things were different. This new set of events just puts me all the way back to last year. Just speaking for myself of course.

 

[Halldan1]

The Nova game went as expected or a little better than most thought. So I wouldn't reference that.

Yes the Creighton game was concerning, but at this point it's only one game. The issue of course is what's happened in the past.

But to my thinking the players are different and I believe their response will also be different.

Let's hope for the best.

 

[TheBluePirate]

I am certainly with you on hoping for the best.

A banging performance in Providence would be a nice palliative regarding all of this.

 

[cernjSHU]

The issue with the Creighton game was not getting blown out at home. The issue people have and are rightfully very concerned is not only the poor effort on the floor but also the benching of Whitehead, DRod and Delgado by the coach. With the history of Willard with all his teams, there have been issues with his players. I remember the refrain, wait until he gets his own players here, no more bad Bobby G seeds. Well, he has is own players. Creighton was a reminder that its the same old song.

 

[donnie_baseball]

+1 cern. How is anyone "amazed" that people are drawing parallels to last year?

No one has given up. Show up and play the rest of the BE schedule like the WSU or Marquette games, end whatever locker room issues are surfacing, and everyone can rest assured that this isn't history repeating itself. Until then, it's eerily similar, and hugely disappointing.

 

[Save Continental]

A big part of the worry for me is simply the schedule. We could right the ship, play wonderful basketball and still be 2-5 in about 11 days from now. And at that point, I have no idea where we'd go from there.

 

[radecicco]

Agree with all sides of this discussion if that's possible. Just have to take it game by game and see what happens. If we are 2-5 but have good effort, then maybe there is still hope.

But one thing that has to stop is booing our team at our home court. The players hear it whether its directed at Willard or not. Recruits at the game and watching on TV hear it. Viewers hear it. Didn't hear any booing at Marquette when we blew them out by 20. It doesn't help anything. The place to vent is on this site, not at the Rock.

 

[TheBluePirate]

good effort

That's about all I'm asking for.

 

[pmulcahy96]

It's all about effort, tenacity and taking some pride in the uniform. Last game we didn't have it, and Willard had the common courtesy to give McDermott a reach around. There are 14 games left, plenty of time to see what this team is made of.

 

[Piratz]

Really interested to see how this team comes out on Saturday. They'll have had a week off to stew on whatever nonsense has been stirring.

i like how we match-up with Providence, but even if we lose, if it's a spirited effort with cohesion, it's a great sign.

 

[sami]

The issue with the Creighton game was not getting blown out at home. The issue people have and are rightfully very concerned is not only the poor effort on the floor but also the benching of Whitehead, DRod and Delgado by the coach.

Difference of opinion. I'm not disgusted they were benched. I'm disgusted they NEEDED to be benched. Piss poor attitudes and efforts. It's a fail on all 4.

 

[HALL85]

Really interested to see how this team comes out on Saturday. They'll have had a week off to stew on whatever nonsense has been stirring.

i like how we match-up with Providence, but even if we lose, if it's a spirited effort with cohesion, it's a great sign.

+1. This will be the telling sign. If it's a one game aberration like it's been claimed, then they have a load to prove on Saturday and the effort should be unquestioned. A weak effort and pretty sure we are looking like a repeat of 2015.