Who’s your all time starting 5?
- Thread starter HallBall02
- Start date
I agree with West Coast Pirates in that you need to keep the positions close to what they would actually play as if you were fielding an actual team.
My all Willard Pirates team.
PG Whitehead
SG Myles Powell
SF
PF Angel Delgado
C Ro Gill
For the SF I’m stuck between Edwin, Desi, Rhoden, Hazel
Bench: Mamu, Theodore, Carrington.
My all Willard Pirates team.
PG Whitehead
SG Myles Powell
SF
PF Angel Delgado
C Ro Gill
For the SF I’m stuck between Edwin, Desi, Rhoden, Hazel
Bench: Mamu, Theodore, Carrington.
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It's pretty close to impossible to do this. We don't have clear cut professional all-timers like many other Universities and colleges have, not to mention our best players are, for the most part, removed by entire generations.
I think you need to have 3 classifications to do this right: Pre-1980, 1980-2000, and 2001-present.
I think you need to have 3 classifications to do this right: Pre-1980, 1980-2000, and 2001-present.
I think the All-time list is suffering from some recency bias.
I would start with the consensus all Americans: Walter Dukes, Myles Powell and Bob Davies. Then you need to add in Dehere. The fifth spot is tougher. I suppose Werkman or Bryant. Maybe Morton as next up since the dude dropped 35 in the biggest SHU game in history. And Rebimbas to lead the team out the the locker room.
I would start with the consensus all Americans: Walter Dukes, Myles Powell and Bob Davies. Then you need to add in Dehere. The fifth spot is tougher. I suppose Werkman or Bryant. Maybe Morton as next up since the dude dropped 35 in the biggest SHU game in history. And Rebimbas to lead the team out the the locker room.
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Even money the tweeter has no idea who Dukes and Davies are and a passing knowledge of Bryant at best.
For me it's Andre McCloud, Tom Brown, Marvin Morris, Kenny Powell and Ransom Eaves. You always remember your first. Lol.
Actually, and keeping to the period from 1983 on, it would be Terry Dehere, Myles Powell, Andre Barrett, Mark Bryant and Angel Delgado.
The next group would include Jerry Walker, Shaheen Holloway, Khadeen Carrington, Adrian Griffin and Arturas Karnishovas.
Crazy to mix eras, but if I had to say it:
Dukes
Davies
Werkman
Powell
Dehere
Dukes
Davies
Werkman
Powell
Dehere
I just want to know how they have Sam at PF and Delgado at C?
I get the recency bias, but Bob Davies is in the Hall of Fame (!!!!) and Walter Dukes averaged 19 and 19 for his career, 26 and 22 as a senior, and also averaged a double double in the NBA. Any all-time list has to start with those two, plus Werkman. After that, I’d say Dehere as the fourth. Fifth spot up for debate. I know it’s heresy, but Powell’s senior year through absolutely no fault of his own may possibly bump him from the all-time best list. And don’t discount a player like Glen Mosley, even though the guys who made up the original list may never have heard of him.
I limited my own list to the players I've seen play.
Realistically any all-time Hall players list certainly includes Davies and Dukes. In addition to that Richie Regan, Werkman, Mosley and probably Pep Saul and Dan Callandrillo are very much in the conversation in addition to many of those who have played through the Big East era.
I don't think you'll beat my all time Big East team. But with that said many won't be happy with Griffin on it and that's understandable.
By position not by 5 best talents
1st team
C E Griffin
PF Bryant
SF McCloud
2G Dehere
PG Whitehead
2nd team
C Dalembert
PF Delgado
SF Hazell
2G Powell
PG Callandrillo
3rd team
C Avent
PF J Walker
SF Gaze
2G Galis
PG Barrett
Hard to believe I couldn't find a spot for Holloway and Morton.
Galis, who very well could be the best 2G in SHU's Big East history only played one season in the conference so you might put Morton in his spot for that reason. But anyone who ever saw Galis play knows his talent was as good as most anyone on the above list.
Holloway and Barrett are neck and neck so take your pick.
By position not by 5 best talents
1st team
C E Griffin
PF Bryant
SF McCloud
2G Dehere
PG Whitehead
2nd team
C Dalembert
PF Delgado
SF Hazell
2G Powell
PG Callandrillo
3rd team
C Avent
PF J Walker
SF Gaze
2G Galis
PG Barrett
Hard to believe I couldn't find a spot for Holloway and Morton.
Galis, who very well could be the best 2G in SHU's Big East history only played one season in the conference so you might put Morton in his spot for that reason. But anyone who ever saw Galis play knows his talent was as good as most anyone on the above list.
Holloway and Barrett are neck and neck so take your pick.
I always wonder when we come up with these lists of the top SH players where Howard McNeil would be ranked if he had been a 4 year player and not followed the path he did.
I will stay BE
TERRY
BRYANT
POWELL
TERRY
BRYANT
POWELL
You saw him play way more than me, but shocked to see McCloud on the list, let alone first team. And no way am I putting Griffin on frst team, or on any team either. His talent was there of course, but what he gave us is not all time in my book.
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No problem with Griffin. In fact I expected that type of response. But if we go strictly by talent he was probably the most talented player in our Big East history. A one and done lottery pick.
Regarding McCloud, incredibly underrated because he played on PJ's absolute worst teams. But given that and the attention he received on the defensive end McCloud is 8th on the Hall's all time scoring list with 1976 pts (without the benefit of playing with an arc). Behind only Dehere, Werkman, Powell, Hazel, Tynes, Carrington and Callandrillo.
In my mind it was between he and Hazel for best SF. And since Hazell was really a 2G who could have played the 3 I went with McCloud.
Regarding McCloud, incredibly underrated because he played on PJ's absolute worst teams. But given that and the attention he received on the defensive end McCloud is 8th on the Hall's all time scoring list with 1976 pts (without the benefit of playing with an arc). Behind only Dehere, Werkman, Powell, Hazel, Tynes, Carrington and Callandrillo.
In my mind it was between he and Hazel for best SF. And since Hazell was really a 2G who could have played the 3 I went with McCloud.
Of course this is almost impossible, as others have said, and for a few reasons. Understanding the guys who played long before your time, comparing the quality of opponents over eras, and combating recency bias (actually, all those other things account for biases, too) make this a tall task. Only one even mentioned Pep Saul - that guy was great! And what do you do with a guy like Eddie Griffin, who may have been the most talented player we ever had, but was here for five minutes, and half of those were detrimental?
I'd go with a starting lineup of:
Walter Dukes
Bob Davies
Myles Powell
Terry Dehere
Mark Bryant
No, there is no true PG, which bothers me, but who is keeping Davies, Powell, and Dehere off the floor? If I were going to start a true PG, it would be Shaheen Holloway, with Powell first off the bench.
My bench of eight guys, in no particular order:
Shaheen Holloway
Angel Delgado
Nick Galis
John Morton
Samuel Dalembert
Ramon Ramos
Pep Saul
Jeremy Hazell
I'd go with a starting lineup of:
Walter Dukes
Bob Davies
Myles Powell
Terry Dehere
Mark Bryant
No, there is no true PG, which bothers me, but who is keeping Davies, Powell, and Dehere off the floor? If I were going to start a true PG, it would be Shaheen Holloway, with Powell first off the bench.
My bench of eight guys, in no particular order:
Shaheen Holloway
Angel Delgado
Nick Galis
John Morton
Samuel Dalembert
Ramon Ramos
Pep Saul
Jeremy Hazell
Eddie Griffin is probably the most talented player in the history of the program, period, no disrespect intended to the program's legends from the late 1940's and 50's. Personally, I couldn't include Griffin because he only played one season for what turned out to be a mediocre team and I'm not even getting into the off-court stuff.
My view would be different if that team had won a national championship like Carmelo Anthony did during his one year at Syracuse. Presuming Griffin was an integral part of that result would have colored my evaluation but obviously that's all in a parallel universe.
One of my friends and I play the what if game with McCloud. What if he had been played later in P.J.'s time or if he had come along during the Willard era? Would he have been a go-to guy or would he have been more of a complimentary piece among more talented players?
Certainly a well thought out question. He did play one year with Bryant.
I would never consider McCloud a complimentary piece, but it's certainly reasonable to think his numbers might be less. But I would then offer his efficiency would be better.
Career stats
www.sports-reference.com
I would never consider McCloud a complimentary piece, but it's certainly reasonable to think his numbers might be less. But I would then offer his efficiency would be better.
Career stats
Andre McCloud College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
Andre McCloud - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more
www.sports-reference.com
McCloud was really the only guy opposing teams had to worry about in those super loaded Big East years
McCloud was a man amongst boys. A physical specimen with incredible talent. Gave up football to play ball for The Hall. Plus he was pure class.
BTW, being from the DC area his first choice was Georgetown. But they never offered and McCloud wanted to play in the Big East, so the rest was history.
.
I wish I had seen Richie Regan play for the Hall because he would get serious consideration as my PG. He led the SH freshman team to a 39 - 1 record and in his three varsity season they were 80 - 12. and played 3 years in the NBA because those who saw him play raved about him. In his three varsity years he scored 1,167 ppg and handed out a total of 443 assists. A first round pick of the Rochester Royals he first had to serve two years with the Marines before joining them and he certainly needs to be recognized as one of the best to ever play for SH.
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I realize this all subjective, but for anyone who actually saw Werkman play....how can you not put him on that all-time best 5?
With all due respect to the other greats, the levels of competition and the juggernaut Big East that Callandrillo and Bryant played in really brings their values that much higher. It’s hard to keep them off a first or second team when nearly every opponent of theirs was targeting them game in and game out.
Werkman and Dukes were before my time, but I heard stories upon stories from my dad (even before SHU’s great 88-94 run) on their dominance.
Galis
Powell
Dehere
Werkman
Dukes
2nd team
Morton
Callandrillo
Whitehead
Bryant
Sam D
Werkman and Dukes were before my time, but I heard stories upon stories from my dad (even before SHU’s great 88-94 run) on their dominance.
Galis
Powell
Dehere
Werkman
Dukes
2nd team
Morton
Callandrillo
Whitehead
Bryant
Sam D
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Only thing is that if you have Dukes and Werkman, then you can’t leave out Davies, the guy in the Hall of Fame.
Also, if you consider Galis, then you can’t pass on Mosley since they were from the same time period.
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